Accurate Earth Map in development

Looks like I'm going to be out numbered but I'm backing swamp A.

Following on from gazius, we could remove staple crops entirely if it would help prevent the map from being too croweded with resources. Radical idea I know, but could we not just assume that staples (wheat, rice, potatoes, etc.) can and are grown everywhere and represent the basic food production of a tile? In a similar vein we could remove common building materials (wood, stone, clay etc.) and assume that they represent a citys hammer production. This would restrict specific resources to being of strategic or economical value and not 'waste' them on generic staples that can be found almost everywhere.
 
@ETM: it seems that that is a good idea, however resource crowding is/isn't an issue depending on the route we take for resources. So I must know- what is your opinion on the question I asked about your resources? Do you think there should be two sets of resources which will fade seamlessly into the other, or do you think both modern and historical resources should be combined? Overcrowding is only an issue in the latter.

Updated map to-do/priority list:

1) Create a version of my map cleared of all resources (delayed)
2) Finish Tea, Cork, Peanuts, Legumes/Soy (one of the two), Fodder resources. Tea and cork are essentially done. I still need to fix tobacco and tea, because the L system is screwed up. I also need to fix the opacity of my nicer gold resource.

coming soon:
3) Finish Coral feature
4) Finish Wintermod
5) Setup the stone/clay etc. system
as well as fill in missing resources
 
I do agree with the idea of having historical resources that lose their significance with time in principle. But how would it work in practice? Lets take amber as an example; worth a lot in the ancient/medieval world, not so today. How would the mechanic work? Would it just become obsolete with the discovery of a particular tech but stay on the map (like vanilla wih furs or whale) or would it disappear as a feature of the map? And if you have the second option is it possible to have two resources assigned to the same tile (say you have the amber replaced with coal in early modern), other wise we just have the mechanism from vanilla; certain resources become obsolete but stay on the map anyway.

As an aside, if more than one resource can be present in a tile we could us this to cut down on the overcrowding problem (gas and oil could be found together as could iron and coal). If not we could represent some of the more common examples as hybrid resources, ie one resource from a mechanic point of view that represent more than one resource in real life ("coal-iron" or "oil-gas" for example).
 
kevinman4404 said:
I'm especially interested in the opinion of moopoo and lastone36, who both said they really like the swamp i showed in the terrain strip picture. I think they both now make good candidates for a swamp graphic

Kevin
Click to expand...

Haven't really been visiting modding section lately, so i haven't been around. I like B better myself.
 
Just a thought on follow up, I'd wonder if it might not be worthwhile to have resources found by event, with basic materials that are common through time merged with terrain. So if you have two hill plots, instead of building a mine and windmill on the wrong plot, you would instead just happen to discover that particular resource, such as a precious metal, where you built the mine, instead of it being covered by the windmill. Alternatively, it might be nice if you have a way to sound out resources, or could discover one, and have that divorced from being able to mass harvest the resource directly.
 
@lord_joakim: glad you are still here :) the more people i know who've stuck around from the beginning-ish, the happier I am

plus, a map release (not that it will be useful to many) along with many really nice features (wintermod, historic->modern resources, new resources/features/terrains/art/etc.) is not too far away, though I still hope afterwards you'll check on the mod every once in a blue moon (it's going to be a really long project)

@ETM: yes, it is easily possible (EDIT: actually, I'm not sure...). If I can't, then moving it one tile isn't my biggest worry, though I hope to avoid this.

@Gazius: I am also considering this. However, it seems almost a little redundant in practise, and why would someone place a mine if they didn't know there was an ore underneath? If we were to use this, resources would need to be discovered by something else (ie a geologist) rather than the improvement itself. This may very well be a good option. However, would I let the unit discover resources from both historical and modern times, or just the time period the game is currently in? Also, this would mean I have to/borrow/find someone to code. Maybe what I might do is start off with dynamic resources and consider this as an edit later on, as I simply don't have the resources or knowledge (yet) to do significant coding. My first priority is going to be to get a (however nice) release of this map. Then as interest builds I can perhaps enroll some coding help. Right now either I've avoided it or borrowed/edited/asked help.

@Charles_Li: Same thing. This involves coding, and I've wanted to do that for a long time. So at some point after I've released it, I'll figure out how to change the values of resources. Then if the value gets too low for too long the resource can disappear.

Thanks for the ideas. Swamp B it is. I will start off with dynamic resources. NOTE: this will have to wait until the new MapView is released. It will also take some time. Let me know if you have any objections, it is going to be a couple weeks till it is started anyways

Kevin
 
kevinman4404 said:
@Moopoo: that's the idea

@LastOne36: Here are the two concerned sections of Venezuala. Note that the graphics, shadows and water are messed up, but that's because once I make changes I hate to reopen the map to see the new graphics properly. This takes a long time to do, so I didn't bother.

venezuelafixed1kc6.jpg


venezuelafixed2vc1.jpg


I could not grant you a wheat or corn, as there was not enough of either now or back in colonization times.

Also, my forest cover was very close; I am using original, not modern, forest cover. However there were a bunch of tiles of forest I removed- there's a thin line in the Venezuelan plain and a tad NE of it that was originally treeless.

I fixed the over-exaggerated mountain range to the east. Mount Bolivar was already there, but I fixed the shape/positioning of that streak of mountains. The mountains in the east will still seem big; they are a fair bit less tall, but they meet my height requirements. So in a way it is a bit of an unavoidable misrepresentation that makes that one seem larger. The mountains by Mt. Bolivar are tall but the range is very thin.
Click to expand...
Ok it is an improvement but the first thing you have to know is that Venezuela is a very rich country in resources, Perhaps the richest in the Americas. I personally think that Venezuela should be as bulked up as some European countries tooken down a notch or two. The coastal regions should be Forest and Rainforest imo. and yes i do think you exaggerated a bit with the mountain range.

Perhaps a hill or two should be added, Diamonds and Aluminum have to be added somewhere as well. (if you can only have 1, choose Aluminum). My mom knows so much more then I do, i'm going to have to give the link to the page to her and let her make some suggestions herself.
 
Maybe, just maybe, add 'High Land', taller than hills. They will de-xagerate those mountain ranges while keeping the looks. (a ridge :))
 
Regarding "mountains," if I can I might; however, I would like it to wait until after the map is available. I tried bringing over Colon.'s height maps, and that had no effect, so I'm going to have to get it working for me first. Also, would that allow cities?

@Lastone36, thanks for being around in both threads, there hasn't been much activity recently. I'll look into the coastal forest, and I have since added more resources (to my entire map... starting to get crowded... every tile in Greece/Macedonia/Albania area is taken). It still seems a little unrich compared to Peru and Colombia and Europe, so I will add an aluminum, diamond, or both. I will also reconsider wheat if I can find just a little to support that it is present on an international level. Also, how are the mountains now? And where do you think should be hillier?

~~~

I have filled in horses, marble, and added tons of historical resources. I am well on track for a near release.

I decided to feature all resources at once. Instead of having ancient/colonial/modern resources, I will have all on the map at one time (however crowded), and I will be using the following system:

Most metals (ie copper, tin, iron, gold, silver, etc etc) will be visible and improvable from the start, though you may need a tech to use them. Foodstuffs, animals, etc., will need domestication. This will likely be a second tech window. It will take a long time to domesticate something, and you do this like you research techs. Many you can domesticate right away, but others have to wait until you've domesticated other stuff, and some take longer than others. Once you have finished the domestication for that particular resource, it is revealed on the map. Just like with techs, some civs (ie sumeria) may start with one already domesticated (wheat). Anyways, what this does, is it allows me to have, for example, potatoes in Europe, horses in Western NA, etc., and the native civs will not be able to see it. Instead, they have to wait until they meet invading Europe to trade for the domestication-tech for horses, as you can trade them like you do techs.

Does this sound ok?

Kevin
 
I would heavily suggest curbing any game resources that can be cut from the game to give more space, this looks wonderful but crash tastic, I dont know what fills up Civ 4s memory so fast, but any room you can spare to make this awsome mod actualy playable would be great.
 
You could make mountains City-able only for certain civs, eg Inca

I like the whole domesticated resources thing. However, Just say you are Ancient France, and you research domesticate Corn (hee hee), say. Does this mean that you get Corn, even though it's historically innaccurate, or will it just not be in your land? Or will it be restricted so that you can only research for resources you have?

I was thinking a research bar that doesn't specify what particular resource (so you could have a "Domesticate Crop" and "Domesticate Animal" button) that takes longer every time you research it.
 
What are the scales of Venezuela in your map? I would like to recreate the map as best as i can and get my mom to correct it.

Regarding Mountains, i would highly consider making them settle-able. For example in Venezuela, my hometown of Merida is in the mountains and is supporting a huge population of 400,000.

Add both Diamonds and Aluminium if you can. Venezuela was the first South American country to be really colonized, it had the resources to do so as well. Venezuela should be much more rich in terms of resources then Peru, and Colombia (is Colombia really that populated with resources?) Venezuela should look similar to the Spain in your map minus a notch or two.
 
@LastOne36- I'll add all 3 resources then. In comparison to Spain, it should be fine. However, the Balkan region is totally full, so I hope this isn't disproportionate... they especially seem to have a lot of metals. At least they won't all be available at any one time (some won't be revealed yet and some will become obsolete). But I really don't know what to do about the huge number of resources (in select regions).

However, (Chiyochan) as I said, it should not be a problem (so long as it's not hugely disproportionate), and if I were to cut down, I would absolutely need to start over because a) it hurts making all sorts of decisions on what to cut and b) in the busy spots, some resources are moved a tile to make room for more resources, so it is no longer accurate. If I find a resource has no real independent impact (such as goat cheese granting happiness and health; wool from goats and sheep being used for something...) or no large cultivation (ie wheat's kind of boring but I'd never delete it...) I'd consider removing every instance of that resource from the map.

Regarding performance, the number of resources shouldn't have a significant impact on performance. I have not (neccessarily) noticed any, I believe my computer is just crapping out. Being an XP user, I tried logging into one of the computer's accounts I don't normally use, and the computer will immediately crash/restart. A lot of my programs won't start at all, including EU3 and W3. Civ 4 won't start after the first run.

(back to LastOne36) What do you mean by the scale? Do you mean how many km per tile? To be honest, I mainly used my eye, though a lot of other mapmakers do painstaking comparisons. But, let me know if this is what you mean and I will figure it out tommorow or Thursday (won't get to work on anything tommorow).

Regarding my system, perhaps domestication for different stuff shouldn't be researchable, but instead be automatically granted to civs at their birth. The other civs can get ahold of it through trade, or through technology leakage (gradual spread). Eventually, and I mean quite eventually, the whole world will know about the resource. This will allow extremely far nations to be to some degree developmentally isolated, until modern times. Let's say only one civ (the first one for that domestication) has a domestication. If that civ is killed, then it is instead passed onto the conquerer. Any civs that then branch from that civ start with that domestication.

Admittedly the first try at expressing that idea was not well thought out; does this sound better?

@Moopoo, by mountain I'm guessing we are both collectively referring to the between hill/peak, in which case that sounds fine and if I make that cities will be allowed to be built on them. Also, the Incan Empire and anything else in there will have plenty of room.

Hopefully you can all understand it, I'm really tired

Kevin
 
(back to LastOne36) What do you mean by the scale? Do you mean how many km per tile? To be honest, I mainly used my eye, though a lot of other mapmakers do painstaking comparisons. But, let me know if this is what you mean and I will figure it out tommorow or Thursday (won't get to work on anything tommorow).
Click to expand...

How about just an overal map of Venezuela? I can try to recreate it in the Worldbuilder.
 
How about just an overal map of Venezuela? I can try to recreate it in the Worldbuilder.
Click to expand...

even better, I'll give you my map, cropped down to just venezuela, without resources (I'm cropping from a blank map), but you are more then welcome to make suggestions there.

Everyone ok with the improved domestication idea?

Kevin
 
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