Accurate Earth Map in development

[EviltheMonkey]

Let me see if I've understood you kevin. Crop and animal domestication will be assigned to civs at the beginning of the game (based on history or the locally available resourses on the map?) and these will be locked techs can't be researched but can be traded or diffused (I don't know how that works but I know its been impliement in other mods).

I like the idea in principle as long as there is no way of making resource availability a prerequesite of research. I'd much prefer a system where you can only research horse domestication if you know what a horse is (ie can actually see one on your world map) and this could apply to a lot of techs (refining, plastics, steel are obvious examples).

Of course for this mod it would be no problem to assign these techs based on real history because the civs start locations are fixed (so giving the Aztecs corn cultivation and not wheat cultivation is not going to be an issue for them).

 

[kevinman4404]

Almost. Let me see if I can explain it a little better.

ONE civ will start with a given domestication. IE Sumeria is going to be the only civ to start with wheat. Assyria might be the one to start with horses. Ethiopia might be banana.

These will spread gradually, much like religions do, until the whole world is covered.

They will also spread like technology leaks, as these are, in effect, technologies.

Conquered civs get any domestication the conquerer has.

And of course new civs get the domestication of their parent civ.

So nothing gets predetermined at the start of the game (except for the one civ that starts with each domestication), but since it is gradually spreading, and new civs get their parent's domestication, eventually all civs, and all new civs, will get each domestication.

(tech leak, you're right, is from some other mod)

I like the idea in principle as long as there is no way of making resource availability a prerequesite of research. I'd much prefer a system where you can only research horse domestication if you know what a horse is (ie can actually see one on your world map) and this could apply to a lot of techs (refining, plastics, steel are obvious examples).

Well, I suppose that the thought behind this is wrong, as obviously you can't domesticate a horse without a horse nearby. But does it really matter, if you can't do anything without the domestication anyways? And also, you must remember that civs often get domestications by slowly spreading knowledge, and by technology leaks, that would tell the isolated civ (ie north american civs re: horses) about that resource and how to domesticate it.

Also, remember that you can't, with this system, research a domestication.

Also, is it even possible to have a tech resource prerequisite? If I find, or you find, a modcomp or mod with this modification, please let me know.

Kevin

 

[TheLastOne36]

even better, I'll give you my map, cropped down to just venezuela, without resources (I'm cropping from a blank map), but you are more then welcome to make suggestions there.
Kevin

i like the idea, let's do it.

 

[moopoo]

Given the planned accuracy of this mod, I'll go ahead and assume resources will spread throughout the world too. How will this work? a pre-set, pre-planned thing, or migration through contact?

 

[kevinman4404]

@LastOne36: Venezuela is attached. Again, I used a non-resource version, because a) resources need the appropriate files/artwork and b) I am constantly working on them. Feel free to suggest any resource changes.

I looked into the diamonds and I included one, though it wasn't as important as I would have liked. There are 2 or 3 around the Venezuela/Guyana/Brazil border, and it may be toned down to one or 2. One will stay in Venezuela.

@Moopoo: here is a yet again improved description of my domestication idea:

Spoiler :

ONE civ will start with a given domestication. IE Sumeria is going to be the only civ to start with wheat. Assyria might be the one to start with horses. Ethiopia might be banana.

These will spread gradually, much like religions do, until the whole world is covered (just a little bit slower).

They will also spread like technology leaks, as these are, in effect, technologies.

Conquered civs get any domestication the conquerer has.

And of course new civs get the domestication of their parent civ.

These may be traded to others by the civ(s) that has(ve) them, and they are worth quite a bit.

These are non-researchable, as domestication was because of unknown natural selection; maybe a tech in modern times will allow this.

So nothing gets predetermined at the start of the game (except for the one civ that starts with each domestication), but since it is gradually spreading, and new civs get their parent's domestication, eventually all civs, and all new civs, will get each domestication.

It turns out, this does almost the exact thing you said. Sure, it's a different idea but natives don't see any north american horses until Europeans give them the knowledge, and Europeans don't get potatoes until the natives give it to them. Once they know all about them, they can plant them, and all the potato resources appear, particularily in Europe, where they would be harvested.

So the map starts out with all modern, colonial and early resources, but you will only see a portion of them as you domesticate and learn of other foods and mining techniques, etc.


Also, does anyone know how to make it impossible to research a tech? This is neccessary for the domestication idea.

Is it bDisable, or does that completely take the tech out of the game so that I can't give it to any civ?

And, I will someday soon post an early version of the map so people can view it (preferably in MapView, rather than in-game due to its hefty nature) and propose changes before the final version is ready (along with the map-based modifications).

Kevin

 

[TheLastOne36]

I'm looking into Venezuela now.

Expect feedback sometime soon.

Edit: hmm how do you load worldbuilder save? I've never done it before, i went on world builder and clicked "load" and loaded the file but i had an error. The File is for Vanilla Civ 4 right?

 

[kevinman4404]

I apologize- I forgot that Venezuela has "Light Forest" and "Arid Plains" in it, all which require more files. However I reformatted it just in case. Unfortunately though I have to hold it off a day or two... I tried making a minimod but it crashes when it's supposed to be loading graphics. Either you can use Mapview with my Mapview files, or I'm going to have to find a workaround. I would strongly advise you to choose to use Mapview, as the new Mapview is a fantastic program, but I'll do what I can.

Let me know if you're willing to use it in which case I will zip up my mapview art files that go with the map. My belief is that this will be byfar the easiest way for both of us.

Kevin

 

[TheLastOne36]

Yah sure, i'll figure my way out. I'll pm you if i have any more troubles rather then spamming the thread.

 

[deanej]

You can use bDisable; you can still give civs techs with python and worldbuilder that are disabled.

 

[kevinman4404]

@Deanej- thanks for the tip, I didn't know exactly how it works; it fits the bill perfectly EDIT: I relooked at what you said about blacklisting; how do you disable the researching of a tech for certain civs? At the moment it looks like a simple boolean. Also, by RFC Optimized, do you mean RFC Rand Optimized, or should I PM Musicfreak to get ahold of it (he is the authour right?)

@LastOne36: here is a minimod (place in BTS mods folder) and the textures (place the textures in the folder in the mapview's texture folder)

http://uploading.com/files/NQLS0M4O/VENEZUELAMAPVIEW.zip

Then you open mapview, click plugins/stockeditor/VENEZUELA

then open the map I gave you, and it should display properly in mapview

note: this needs the new Mapview, released since Jan5 or something like that


Almost done the map

Kevin

 

[deanej]

There is some stuff in the Civ4CivilizationInfos for disabling techs as well.

 

[kevinman4404]

@Deanej: Thank you, this does the job perfectly. I also found RFC Optimized.

Here are some pictures of fixes:

Japan fix:

Scandinavia fix:

I am considering the deletion of Aland (the tiny island between Sweden and Finland) because it would look nicer, and they're not too crucial to history, even if they played a role in war in the region

If anyone is wondering what one of those resources is just let me know

I've included a non-final list of features in the somewhat upcoming map* release on the first page

Kevin

*+minimod, the map is impossible without many modifications.

 

[SimonB1er]

@Deanej: Thank you, this does the job perfectly. I also found RFC Optimized.

Here are some pictures of fixes:

Japan fix:

Scandinavia fix:

I am considering the deletion of Aland (the tiny island between Sweden and Finland) because it would look nicer, and they're not too crucial to history, even if they played a role in war in the region

If anyone is wondering what one of those resources is just let me know

I've included a non-final list of features in the somewhat upcoming map* release on the first page

Kevin

*+minimod, the map is impossible without many modifications.

Those features look really great! But I was wondering which civ will you include with the map release?

 

[kevinman4404]

@Simonb1er: I am unable to include any civs in the map release. This is going to be a minimalist mod, as the focus is the map. You would need a lot of civs for this map, and to have that many civs, on such a large map, you would need or at least certainly want old civs to die out and new civs to come to life only at the appropriate time. This requires a larger mod (which I am working on), and my objective is to get the map out as soon as possible.

I guess the target audience would be any modders who want to use a large and dynamic earth map.

~

Here is a major fix to Greece, Turkey and the Black Sea:

EDIT: ignore the bottom of the two tobaccos that are on top of eachother

I have deleted Aland, which I added in the Scandinavia fix.

I also found a better resource graphic for goats from Google 3d Warehouse. I will post a picture in a later update.

Also, for anyone interested, there is a chart of relative resource richness for different regions on the map on the first post of this thread. Note that I did not strive for these results- I am just posting the resource density of each area of my map so far. Let me know if you have any comments regarding these.

edit: notice how overcrowded romania and bulgaria are? guess im not adding roses after all, if I did, there'd be no room to put them

Kevin

 

[CyberChrist]

Regarding Sweden then:
- the southern tip should have an Amber resource (Wheat could be moved 1 north)
- should have 1-2 Deer resource(s) in the Norrland region
- should have 1-2 more Iron resources (Sweden was a major supplier of Iron)
- perhaps 1 Fur resource in the Norrland region (not entirely sure this has historical support though)
- a lot less Tundra in central Sweden. The land is certainly more fertile than what current version shows

Regarding Norway:
- unless they are already there out of view on map shown then offshore Oil resources are needed (at least the same amount as those you placed outside Denmark).
- possible add some more rivers near historical city cites. Norway has the most developed waterpower resources in Europe

Regarding Denmark:
- add one land plot NW of Sealand (to give Jutland it's 'Nose'). Possibly add 1 Wheat resource there
- Bornholm is missing (essential island in the region). It should be placed 2-3 plots right off Sealand (either touching southern tip of Sweden or on top of first current ocean plot in the Baltic Sea)
- to make the ingame look better you could use rivers around the islands to give the illusion of them being so (depending on the river gfx you are planning on using of course)

 

[TheLastOne36]

"Colombia and Venezuela: good to great"

Colombia should be significintly poorer in resources imo. It should go from okay-great.

i'll find the time to look at venezuela this weekend.

 

[kevinman4404]

@Cyberchrist:

In sweden, I implemented the amber, deer. I have two iron in the northernmost section of Norway; do you still feel there should be more iron? I'll check for fur, either now or historically.

In Denmark, although after trying it out I feel the islands look fine either way, I went with your change, and it can do with the extra room. I then added the wheat and added Bornholm, and tentatively gave it amber, which I seem to remember it is party known for. I put it right on the first ocean tile, but it may be moved one tile left (I did this so it wouldn't be attached yet it's not far from where it really is).

In Norway, I'll have to plan out the rivers, and I will be adding fjords too. There are actually 4 crude oil one on top of another in the tile just off the screen (North Sea).

Thank you for the suggestions, let me know about the iron, and I'll update again soon.

@LastOne36: here are the resources that I find in Venezuela and Colombia respectively.

VENEZUELA:
-lots of oil
-some gold
-some cattle (shared)
-some iron
-some shellfish
-diamond
-wheat (shared)
-citrus fruit
-nickel
-aluminum
-sheep (shared)
-cocoa
-fur
-gas
-banana

COLOMBIA:

-some nickel
-some coffee
-some sugar
-some cotton
-gold
-coconut
-banana
-coal
-wheat

Does this seem about right? I guess Colombia's not as rich as Venezuela, if you count the resources within its borders. It is just denser, as the head of the Andes covers a quarter of it, and that is where the resources are concentrated. I've also downplayed the rating of Colombia and Venezuela (together- I combined them into one region) to okay to great. This is because S Colombia is pretty sparse.

 

[CyberChrist]

@Cyberchrist:

In sweden, I implemented the amber, deer. I have two iron in the northernmost section of Norway; do you still feel there should be more iron? I'll check for fur, either now or historically.

If you add 1 more Iron resource near the current Iron resource at Falun(in Sweden) then that should cover it then.

... added Bornholm, and tentatively gave it amber, which I seem to remember it is party known for.

The oldest amber found in Scandinavia(170 mil yo) was found on Bornholm that is true, but due to the steep nature of the islands shores amber is not found there in any significant amounts (afaik). For the same reason then perhaps it ought to be a hill type plot though. Also, I think the location touching the southern tip of Sweden might actually be the best (and together with the hill type adjustment it would add a little production boost to Copenhagen).

A Stone type resource on Bornholm would be even better as it had a few quarries and is semi-famous for it's many round stone churches, but you removed that resource type, right?

 

[Gr3yHound]

great ;D don't forget to release your gfx once your done

 

[BTSformac]

hey! this looks really great!

I was wondering if I could borrow the artwork from you for a crusades minimod I am making?

resources: camels, dates, fruit, cirtus fruit.
terrain: wasteland.

Thank you!

edit: oh, and could you tell me where to put them?