aCK-2 Seeing Red

[Whosit]

Oh noes! The dreaded summer slump has hit yet another! Sounds like quite a load, hope you pull through.

Well, personally, I'm going to play this game through to the end, even if I'm the last player. It's a learning game, right? And we all know that we can learn a lot by, er, losing. Honestly, I've barely a clue how I'd dig myself out of the situation if it was up to me alone, but I think it's possible . . . probably.

So who's with me?

 

[sturick]

Well I am with you Whosit!

I'm thinking about playing a quick set right now in fact.

Quickish plan...

Beg Gunpowder.
Begin teching towards Steel.
Vassalize Brennus.
Settle the GG in Kyoto for 11 xp units out of the gate.
Crank out CGIII Muskets and for the inevitable battle with Monty.
Hope and pray that Pacal breaks from Monty again so we can take Lakamha.

 

[sturick]

Silver, sorry to hear the news.
Please try and peek in now and again to keep an eye on us.
Any pearls of wisdom you can bestow will go a long ways.

If and when Boffo-7 happens keep a seat warm for me k?

Good luck with your work and schooling!

 

[sturick]

Reversal of Fortunes

Preturn

Forgot that Whosit reposted the save with Gunpowder already begged.
So I don't need to do that.

Lets vassalize us some Brennus.

Of course I neglect to get a screenie.
We got 540 and his maps.

Vassalizing Brennus gives us a -2 diplo hit with "The Conglomerate"
Small price to pay I suppose.

Quick tour of the cities.

I whip Chicken Pizzas lighthouse...I'd like to make use of the Colossus while we can.
I switch Satsuma from a treb to a pike.
Tabriz gets rearranged so that it will grow again.

Whacking enter.

(1) 1570 AD

Okay so this isn't starting out like I would have hoped.
Monty comes a calling wanting our newly acquired Brennus monies.

I refuse thinking that peace with Monty isn't going to last much longer.

Chicken Pizza lighthouse>walls I guess
Mutal mish>mish

Uxmal gets Islamized.

I reorganize the troops...
I want to have a strike force ready to pounce on Pacal if he breaks away.
I also want to leave enough troops to defend our east against Monty and Sulei.

(2) 1575 AD

Pacal gets a Great Scientist.
Suleiman gets a Great Merchant.

Chicken Pizza walls>Islamic monastery to help spread the faith
Tabriz longbow>castle for future protection

For some unknown reason Monty is sending his Great Engineer through our lands.
I just can't figure the AI out sometimes.

I forgot to switch to Chemistry last turn...bonehead play there.

(3) 1580 AD

Kyoto musket>musket
Coventry barracks>theatre

I notch science up to 50% with 58 gpt lost.

Stupid me...I forgot about my plan to convert back to Judiasm.
With Bibracte and all of its wonders I think utilizing Sankore/Sistine/Spiral Minaret for the +2 +2 and +5 is the right play.

Not to mention the diplo bonus for sharing religion with Monty should buy us some time.

Let us begin the anarchy!
I switch to OR for the infra bonus and the ability to build jewish missionaries anywhere.

(4) 1585 AD

Anarchy reigns supreme...but we still manage to make extra cash thanks to our shrines!

(5) 1590 AD

Anarchy has ended...and in a surprising bit of good news Sulei wants to be our vassal!

I hope I didn't sound too eager when I accepted his gracious offer.

Now we have a completely buffered eastern front against Monty!

I force Brennus and Sulei into joining me as a Hindu.

I was going to convert to Judiasm but I think I will stick with Hindu for now.
This will make Monty the only Jewish civ around.

Now if Monty ever was to declare we can let those two deal with it while we finish off Pacal!!!!
MWA-HA-HA!!!

(6) 1595 AD

Satusuma pike>hindu monastery
Mutal islamic mish>hindu temple
Edirne theatre>hindu temple

I don't know how but Edirne popped its borders big time...it has control of its entire BFC now. Pleasantly surprised!

Thought about that a bit...its probably vassal mechanics.

(7) 1600 AD

Islam spreads in Tabriz.

Kago treb>longbow

(8) 1605 AD

AP vote comes up and its between us and Genghis!
This should be close...

I vote for us obviously.

(9) 1610 AD

Kyoto still making muskets.
Satsuma hindu monastery>samurai

We win the AP vote thanks to our vassals!

Now we should be able to remove those pesky villain penalties with our next vote!

Also I just realized that when Bibracte comes out of revolt it will have access to all of its BFC. Well after a border pop that is...
So the moral of the story...the city should be able to sustain its size 19 status!

(10) 1615 AD

Surprisingly boring turn...

(11) 1620 AD

Kago longbow>spy
Mutal hindu temple>hindu mish
The Ox treb>hindu mish

(12) 1625 AD

Genghis comes at us with this odd trade...until I realize that he is one turn away.
I take it...why not.

Osaka bank>hindu temple

Bibracte will have one turn of starvation whilst its borders pop.

Economy jumps quite a bit with the arrival of Osakas bank and Bibracte being pacified both this turn.

50% with only 41 lost per turn...trust me thats good.
It was about -70ish gpt only a few turns ago.

(13) 1630 AD

More muskets from Kyoto.

I trade corn for dye with Sulei in order to prevent Bibracte from shrinking...I also switch from the granary that was queued to a lighthouse. My bad.

(14) 1635 AD

Satsuma samurai>samurai
Mutal hindu mish>library

I am splitting our SoD into two groups.
The main group with the majority of our veterans is sitting outside of Uxmal waiting to attack Lakhama and Calakmul.
The smaller group is sitting near Satsuma and will capture Xukpi.

This way we can finish off Pacal in one fell swoop.

(15) 1640 AD

Kago spy>pike

Genghis gets a great spy.

Tabriz gets Hindied.

(16) 1645 AD

Can anyone tell me what this little symbol means????

It probably has alot to do with declarations of war I suppose.

I ask that because...Monty declares on us...well thats fine.
I just hope our vassal friends can hold out long enough for us to finish Pacal!

I trade our copper to Brennus for his furs.
I don't want to demand and have him break from us...not right now!

(17) 1650 AD

No war actions except for the mini Genghis stack with cuirs and trebs around Tabriz and two Pacal stragglers south of Satsuma.

Hindu fails to spread to Kago. GRRRR!

The Ox hindu mish>pike

With such close borders I am able to attack Xukpi this turn.
Two trebs bombard down to 8%
A CRII treb dies with 29% odds.
A CRIII treb lives with 88% odds.
I promote a 7exp samurai to CRII and he dies with 64% odds.
Send in Kamikaze Akira with 70% and he lives?!?! Kamikaze my foot!

We take it down!

I whip Bibractes lighthouse as now it craves Emancipation.
Better than just starving it.

Last turn before Chemistry comes in.
But if it takes two turns to take Lakhama I might sneak an extra turn in.

(18) 1655 AD

Chemistry arrives...I slot in Steel.

Kyoto keeps churning out the hits...if it ain't broke.
Osaka hindu temple>hindu monastery

Apparently we are the dumbest kids in the class.

Hopefully the final Mayan revolt takes place in Chicken Pizza.

I call up Sulei to see what he will give us for Chemistry.
This will probably be the best we can get out of him.
We might as well take the deal!

With a little bit extra cash I crank up the science rate.

Tabriz is being threatened on two fronts now.
Genghis to the south and Monty to the north.
The city has a castle so that should slow them down a bit...only 4 siege between the two of them.

(19) 1660 AD

Tabriz is safely being bombaarded...its at 102% now.
Hehe!

I must not have been paying attention.
Pacal had a small stack outside of Chicken Pizza...two or three more units and he would have taken it. Reinforcements on the way.

Lakhama is down to 20%...but I only have three trebs left...best to wait one more turn before taking it down.
I should have brought a spy!

One more turn and I am done...I don't think turnhogging should be much of an issue in this game now...

(20) 1665 AD

London falls to Monty...that sucks...I just thought they were holding their own pretty well.

I also made a bonehead move auto moving troops in the west...Monty killed some of our city raider units and trebs...I am getting unfocused...last turn I promise!

The siege of Lakhama is ending...
CRII treb dies with 32% odds.
CRII treb escapes with 32% odds.
CRIII treb escapes with 88.5% odds.
Accuracy treb dies with 61% odds.
Accuracy treb escapes with 98% odds.
Cleanup crews do their thing and...

Two settled GGs and one scientist!

Wrapup

Alright...I will wrap things up here.
Getting Sulei as a vassal was HUGE! It literally fell in my lap and turned the tide of the game!

Our buffer isn't going to last very long.
Monty has two good sized stacks that are headed our way.
According to BUG we are going to get an AP vote next turn.
Using it on peace is probably the right play...although Monty might defy it.
Let him take some villian penalties I say!

Either way I think the best move is to finish off Pacal...he only has one city left.
Then our strategy will depend on whether or not we can secure peace with Monty.
A quick breather to regroup would do us alot of good.

I have marked the locations of stacks in and around our empire for an easier transition to the next player.

Roster
Sturick ---> just played
Diamondeye ---> are you sticking with us???
Whosit

 

[Whosit]

Hopefully DE is still around, otherwise it's just you and me!

Getting the Ottomans as Vassals certainly was a very nice surprise. And, yeah, as you figured out, Master Civs culture always overrides Vassal culture. Hopefully our eastern towns are still well fortified, because our Vassals will only slow down Monty at best. Brennus is a shell, after the pain we inflicted on him.

If the AP vote is next turn, we can't ask for peace if we're intending to take Pacal, unless we're banking on Monty defying it? Wait . . . does Monty have the SoZ? I can't remember anymore. Well, since Monty declared on us, he probably will defy a resolution to end the war this early . . . though we want Pacal gone, if the resolution passes, it'll still buy us some time.

I can't be too hard on you for getting a little sloppy with the units considering the messes I've made, but as a general reminder to all remaining players (myself included) we need to be extra vigilant with tactical choices. Should we perhaps only play 10-turn sets during war-time to minimize player fatigue? Or is that too extreme?

I won't be able to look at the save until tomorrow; sturick, you did say you put signs up for the stacks, but is there anything else the next player should know about whatever momentum was going on? It doesn't sound like you left anything out, but I feel like we all have to be on the same page here.

Oh, did Brennus have anything to trade for Chem, or did he already have it? Since he appears to be the most advanced. Monty was down there with us, but I wonder what that really means.

Anyway, things are looking . . . not impossible. Finish the smack-down on Pacal . . . what is the plan with his cities? Maintain them as a commercial core to supplement, er, Tokyo? Seems like the only logical choice considering that we historically have had little income. Khan has to go next, of course, and once that's done, it'll be relatively simple to take on Monty. I wonder if our Vassals will still remain by then. I suppose they are expendable.

 

[Diamondeye]

Uh, I'm still around, but I'll need to wait 'till tomorrow to play on.

 

[Whosit]

Alright, I got a look at the save. Hmm. Dicey. So, Monty's main force looks like they'll beeline to Coventry, but they might bypass it for Tokyo. Hard to tell right now. There's one Spear in Coventry. That should be upgraded to a Pikeman, and we need to be whipping out pikes, not musketmen. Monty has a huge stack of knights, so Pikeman CombatII/Formation are the best defense we have to that right now. Lots and lots of Pikemen for those Knights and War Elephants.

We have some time, 'cuz he'll probably bombard our defenses. We want Pacal gone (b*stard has Steel himself), but our remaining stack up north can handle that, I think.

Oh, Diamondeye, don't forget the few stragglers in our territory. I don't see a lot of spare troops to handle them, though. Also keep an eye on Tabriz. Khan will probably continue to bombard for awhile, but I lost Tokyo in part because I thought the AI would spend another round bombarding instead of attacking.

Anyway, I think the West is in hand. Some of the Pacal Annihilation Stack can be used to deter Khan if needed, but we really, really have to focus all our attention on stopping Monty's stacks. The good news is: I think if we wipe those out, we'll have broken most of his military might. Doing so is the hard part.

Coventry: Forget the Musketman, change to Pikemen and beat as many out as you can. Wait. Wait, I thought I worked this out last night, but I forgot about the City Garrison bonus promotions our Gunpowder units get . . . let me work this out again.

Pikeman: Base 6. +100% (+6) vs. Mounted units. Comes with free Combat I. Should be able to promote to Combat II (+20%/+1.2)/Flanking (+25%/+1.5) vs. Mounted units. So, total vs. Mounted would be: 14.7 vs. Mounted plus any other bonuses applicable.

Musketman: Base 9. No natural bonuses. Comes with Combat I and City Garrison I (Drill is useless against mounted units). Two additional promotions (or 3 from Kyoto). A couple ways to go here . . . .
City Garrison II is worth +25% itself and is one promotion away. City Garrison III is worth +30%, so +75% total. Applies to all attacks. Doing this, I'd mix in a few Combat IIs and a few Charges (+25% vs. Siege). Never mind, Gunpowder units don't get that.

Mounted and Melee can get Charge. Maybe throw out a few Knights with Charge to handle incoming Siege. Or even Samurai? At least Melee units can get fortification bonuses.

OK, back to the Musketmen. If we go City Garrison III/Combat II: 9 +75% (+6.75) +20% (+1.8), we get 17.55 when defending in Cities, good against anything, plus any other bonuses applicable.

So, it seems that I may have been wrong. Our Musketmen, by virtue of our Leader traits, come out a bit better than Pikemen for DEFENSE. With this new analysis, we still want Musketmen, but also Pikemen. I'd still upgrade the Spear in Coventry and whip out Pikemen from THERE. Formation Pikes can still be used on the offense.

In the best world, we'd want our own Siege to attack Monty's stack, but with all those Knights, Catapults would be eater alive. Best we could do is give 'em Barrage promotions and count on the collateral damage, which might not be a bad idea. I'd still go for a few Charge Knights or Charge Samurai, that can hopefully take out some of Monty's siege when he finally attacks. Flanking Knights seem like a good idea, but those War Elephants would tear 'em apart, I think.

ANYWAY, hopefully this hasn't been too confusing or too out there, but we really, really need to concentrate our main effort on our eastern front, because the Vassal buffer has collapsed. We should have plenty of troops in the east to finish Pacal, maybe even take the Monty town up there, and push Khan out. These turns are gonna take a lot of focus, so if any of us feel like that focus is slipping at any point during a set, it'd be better to take a break for awhile, or even pass it, I think. Or at least pause and consult with the group.

Oh, and Tokyo. It can whip the bank for 1 to save a few turns, and maybe get some cheap siege or something out. I don't really want to whip that town, but I think we have to at this point. I was too hesitant to whip it way back when, but we may have to shrink it to save the Empire, yeah? Maybe Catapults or Pikemen.

 

[Diamondeye]

Okay, I don't have the focus right now, so I'll give it a shot tomorrow. If I find it's impossible for me, I'll pass it on. Oooh, responsability, responsability

 

[S.ilver]

Very nice set sturick. Indeed, Sulei switching vassals is insanely good. The strategic problem that I was worried about tackling was having Monty troops able to march directly into Edirne, which is on the wrong side of that river to be convenient to defend, but Sulei just solved that problem there.

Genghis has Cuir's in his stack, so you need Pikemen and other tough defenders in Tabriz. CG3 Muskets will be great as well, and since they can be built as CG3 (with as little as 5XP), there shouldn't be a problem.

The main problem I foresee is being able to destroy Monty's stack. As you probably know, the best way to take down a stack is to get them holed up in a city that is revolting (like London is right now), and hitting them HARD with CR siege units. That will utterly shred the enemy, because the AI doesn't bring along CG troops, so they have NOTHING to properly counter with.

The only problem is that the army, and the siege, is in the west (which is the correct move, remove that bugger Pacal and get to work on Genghis), so you might have to find some stalling tactics (the AP vote to stop war would work great if it passes). Even though London may not be in revolt any more, there are other options.

Gergovia, south of Coventry, is the best option. A big enough force defending Coventry may be able to dissuade Monty from attacking there, and instead hitting Brennus. However, we can freely maneuver in Brennus' land, so we have all the benefits of our own territory, with none of the drawbacks of having to lose one of our own cities. And when we retake Gergovia, we can choose to keep it if we want.

The other option is Coventry itself. If we can actually have a stack there ready to counterattack the city RIGHT AFTER it falls, then it is worth it to withdraw from the city without a fight if all of Monty's troops are waiting to enter it. Coventry is a dump anyways, and its infrastructure would be a small price to pay for the destruction of a Monty stack.

Once Monty has been detoothed, it's going to be a hard slog to take out the rest of his land, but ultimately it shouldn't cause too much trouble.

 

[Whosit]

Sound strategic advice, S.ilver. Regarding the Coventry gambit, though, does that depend on Monty moving all his troops into the city? Reading that line again, I get it. You want them in the city so that CR siege get their power bonus, but defenders won't have cultural defense, and hopefully no CG units.

I haven't made a play like that, so if you empty the city, would the AI really go all in? Or do you leave a token garrison to draw them in?

 

[S.ilver]

I haven't made a play like that, so if you empty the city, would the AI really go all in? Or do you leave a token garrison to draw them in?

I've really only done it a few times, as it's usually been a last minute desperation tactic, but from my experience, it works. See Boff-03 when Cathy invaded in the north. Granted, it was desperation at its finest, with me having no troops with defensive bonuses in cities, so I wasn't losing much by trying that anyways.

It's far better if Monty can be herded into one of Brennus' cities, as that's a painless win for us there (not so much for Brennus, but who cares ). I do believe that the AI will avoid large stacks, so that could be a way of keeping Monty away from Coventry. Of course, if Brennus' towns are poorly defended in comparison to ours, Monty may go for them anyways, just out of opportunity.

Gergovia is probably the best kill spot though. The town is built on a flat desert tile, and it will be sandwiched by our culture and Brennus' culture, with Monty's culture still a few tiles back. Monty will have nowhere to hide his stack, except inside the city, which is what we want him to do.

BTW, to answer sturick's previous question; the angry red person icon next to a civ in the scoreboard means they consider you their worst enemy. Which is not really surprising, all things considered...

 

[PaulisKhan]

Intended or not, regardless of the difficulty level and independent of the final result, these close fought games make for the most compelling reading.

Congratulations to everyone on making such an interesting SG. This has definitely been one of the best SG's I've read, bonehead blunders and all =)

Thankyou for sharing it.

 

[Diamondeye]

Oh my, oh my, no focus, no focus at all! Could I ask one of you to swap, please?

 

[Whosit]

Heh, I think I can take a round today (I'd be up next, anyway). Just had brekkist, had a decent night's sleep, I think I can manage a bit.

Actually, now that I think about it, I think I dreamed about this game. Granted, it was Monty stomping all over our eastern cities . . . . But dreams are just dreams, eh? I think we have about as solid a plan as we can get, so hopefully no problems.

@PaulisKhan: Glad we could make it exciting for you. We probably couldn't have blundered like this if we tried! I'll certainly do my best to make this a "skin-of-teeth victory from the slavering, snapping jaws of defeat" kind of story.

 

[sturick]

Thanks PaulisKhan!

The closely contested matchups seem to be a trademark of the games I'm involved in.
Just enough suboptimal play to keep things interesting!

As a side note...if an opportunity arises we really should put the National Epic in Bibracte.
With all the wonders there we will get Great People out the wazoo.

Of course if we can't secure peace with Monty then we will be pushing out military units.
However, if we do get some AP peace with Monty then we will have time to build it and I think it will be worth the investment.

Now for the other National Wonder...do we go with Moai or Globe???
My first instinct was to build Moai...but then I thought that we don't really have any other suitable site for the Globe either. You don't usually draft out of your GP farm though either.

My gut says build Moai but our military situation does scream for some serious drafting.
What do you guys think???

 

[Whosit]

Not sure, sturick. With the Globe, we can run a bunch of specialists, too, crank out Great People all the faster. Extra production would be helpful, but I'm not sure that it plays to the city's strength as well. I don't think I'll be building either in my set, though.

 

[sturick]

Keep in mind we have a GP grabbag coming up in 3 or 4 turns.
We haven't had a golden age yet right?
I assume we will start one up with the upcoming GP.
I don't think bulbing or settling sounds like the right idea.

Thoughts???

 

[Whosit]

Set

Inherited Turn 353, 1665 AD

Goin' through the cities. Hire a merchant in Bibracte since we can't get any scientists yet (gonna put up a library soon). Place is at happiness limit, so I wanted to slow the growth a bit.
Osaka has a Monastery finishing in 2 turns, so I'll let it. After that, it's some kind of cheap military.
Satsuma is growing, so we should be squeezing more and more production out of it.
Same of Kagoshima.
I whip the Pikeman out at Tabriz. Town's in poor shape, but what can I do? I work the food-heavy tiles to get growth going as quickly as possible because I forsee many, many whippings.
I focus on food at Uxmal, too. I will wait a few turns before whipping the Library. Fire the artist, now that I notice him. He works the iron mines now, get some production back (miner, the former artist. I wonder what he makes).
Mutal I leave stagnate because it's about as high production as it can be right now.
Whip the Hindu Temple in Edirne for 1.
Whip the Bank in Tokyo for 1.
I reconsider, and whip a Market in Mayapan even though it's far from growth.
2-pop whip the 15-turn Musket in Coventry.

All that whipping pushed Steel back a turn, but should be OK.

A lot of units scattered around Tabriz. Hopefully they won't get picked off. A knight has move, so I move it into town.

Wait the Pacal attack stack to cover the seige since it can't move right now.

There is a spy in London. I don't know why there is a spy in London. Was there a plan? I move him out to avoid being caught, I guess.

Upgrade a spearman, send a Tokyo Musket to Coventry. Let's see how this goes.

Nothing else to do, so end the turn.

Turn 354, 1670 AD

Pacal suicides his guys ast Chichen Itza, which is good, 'cuz I forgot about them. Monty's horses dance around London. Bibracte became unhappy, which means that War Weariness is taking fast effect.

Kyoto pumps out Musketmen. (Brennus' Kingdom for Rifles!)
Tabriz: Pikeman < Pikeman
Mayapan: Market < Barracks (4 turns). Get some siege out next.
Edirne: Hindu Temple < Barracks (2 turns)
Tokyo: Bank < Catapult (9 turns)
Coventry: Musketman < Catapult (12 turns)

Tabriz is being steadily bombed.

Press on to Pacal's last refuge.

Turn 335, 1675 AD

Chichen Itza comes out of revolt, cuts a few turns off of Steel. Sulei's town in the back of Monty land is going down, a spy destroys a plantation somewhere . . . have to find it.

Osaka: Hindu Monastery < Catapult (5 turns)
Satsuma: Pikeman < Pikeman (4 turns)

The AP vote comes up, but the only option is Religious Leader. Can I get a diplomatic victory out of this? Umm, I recall that we have 226 votes of our own (looked at the screen last turn, can't check now). Our Vassals should vote for us. Monty isn't a full member, so he doesn't get very many votes. Hey, might as well give it a shot . . . .

It's between us and Khan. Hrm. Oh, looks like I can see the votes in the Victory conditions screen. Well, if that's right, we're close, but not quite enough. Oh well.

Whip Uxmal Library.

I've been fortifying Tabriz, Khan will probably attack soon. I don't really have anything to counter his stack with right now, especially when they are in the forest. Nothing has better than 10% odds on the attack.

We get a great person next turn. It's a real toss-up.

Monty is still prancing around, so we might be safe a few more turns.

Turn 356, 1680 AD

Mighta been wrong there. Monty moves into our territory towards Coventry. A town gets toasted somewhere.

Brennus wants open borders. Sure. Why not. I think we get a little extra income.

Kyoto: Musketman < Trebuchet (2 turns)
Uxmal: Library < Catapult (27 turns). Looks like more whipping in the future.
Edirne: Barracks < Catapult (25 turns).
Bibracte: Theatre < Library (5 turns). To unlock National Epic. (Just in case sturick cares, the game recommends Maoi status, heh.)

Yeah, just about 40 votes shy of a Religious win.
Oh well.

We got a Great Engineer . . . .

I will pause here to consult.
We have a few options:
1) Embed. NO
2) Bulb. It will provide 2121 beakers towards Steel out of 6276. We're already at 1679/6276 making 287 beakers a turn or so. 13 turns left. I'm for bulbing, we'll get Steel many turns faster this way and we NEED cannons.
3) Hurry Wonder. We don't really have any wonders worth hurrying.
4) Golden Age. I feel like it would be wasted right now, personally.

This is just a pause. I'm good to keep going, so I will once I hear from you guys or if a few hours pass.

 

[sturick]

Good start so far...

I would say to go with a golden age...
I played with both options.

Bulbing knocks Steel down to 7 turns at an unsustainable rate.
Firing up a golden age knocks it down to 11 turns at a breakeven rate.
We will also be able to build military slightly faster than before with the increased hammers.
Plus we have the MoM so the GA will last 15 turns.

It looks like the spy I sent to revolt Pacals last city must've gotten caught...that blows!

Keep it up Whosit!

 

[Whosit]

OK, thanks for checking that out, sturick. Was just about to continue the set, anyway, heh. Golden Age it is. Should have more report up this evening.