aCK-3 The Cat with the Hat

[S.ilver]

Back into the swing of things again after a busy summer, so it's time to get the aCK series rebooted. Unfortunately, Liq is still out of the picture for a while longer due to illness. He sends us the following:

Wishing him all the best and a speedy recovery and return to us. Anyways, S.ilver will stop blathering about random things, and get straight into this random game.

pholtz recently posted asking if any new appropriate games are starting out, and with aCK's being at the appropriate Monarch level, it seemed a good time to start another one up.

Since "random starts" seem to be the big crux, we're going to mix this one up with a complete random generation of the starts (as soon as I get home and am able to roll the starts), unless of course anyone joining wants to play some specific settings.

The Roster
-S.ilver
-pholtz
-The Simple Mind
-IamJohn

In an order to be decided. Since I am missing my counterpart at the moment, the roster will be limited to 4 slots (if we can even find that many daring people to join).

Some rules not specifically copied from some generic SGs...

Spoiler :

1. For a learning SG, the report is even more important than usual. If we cannot follow what you are doing, it is difficult to comment. Of course, since this is a Liq and S.ilver production, you may be able to learn some report writing styles as well...

2. There is no hard and fast turn limit. Typical is 20-30 turns early and 15ish later on, but the idea to is play objective based turnsets. If you have played 20 turns and we are 2 turns from Iron Working, please find out where the iron is first!

3. Always think for yourself and follow along in discussion. Discussion is the tool for learning Civ in these kinds of formats.

 

[The Simple Mind]

I've never participated in an SG but I'm keen to get involved if you'll have me. I've not long moved up to playing monarch and think it would be good for me to be involved in SG play to improve my game. I tend to play financial leaders but I'd be quite happy to learn how to use some other traits.

 

[S.ilver]

Glad to have you on The Simple Mind! If you've never played an SG before, you're in the right place. This is a learning game both for Civ, and for actual report writing (which is what makes SGs fun and involving).

One question for you though. I'm probably going to get lazy and not type out your full name all the time, so do you prefer "Simple", "Mind", "TSM", or something else totally unrelated?

 

[pholtz]

As I mentioned in my message that S.ilver refers to, I'm a complete noob at Succession games, but eager to give it a go. Soooo....

- I guess I need a photobucket account or something similar for images since when I try to insert an image it asks for a URL. Ok, got a photobucket account. I'll practice posting an image to this thread soon. Since all I do in Windows is play games, (I'm over on the mac for more serious.. *yea sure* ... stuff) I don't have much in the way of utilities or whatever. If there are any programs out there I should have to make things easier let me know. And if they are free, that's even better .

- Are we going to use any mod? I play using BUFFY, if I'm not playing another mod. I'm not sure what I would do without some of the info that BUFFY presents. Well, actually I do know, I would get lost. When I try Rhye's or some other mod, I cry a lot trying to figure out when to whip or where my next GP is going to pop up. And BUFFY has so much more info on the assistant screens, that I have yet to figure it all out. But I guess we need to all play the same mod, so just let me know.

- Right now my main effort is over on the HOF major, a Huge Time Victory attempt. So I look forward to this game as a break from that one. It's possible that in 2 weeks I would need time to finish that game before the deadline, especially if my first one gets rejected.

- The main advantage of this game, for me, will be to slow me down. I'm always thinking I should name the cities/units but then 1800 rolls around and I've forgotten again . I think the slower, more careful play, just so I don't make a fool of myself, will raise my play a level

- I guess where I need the most help is city specialization, planning and using GP's, and military tactics. I'll try to be verbose (as witnessed by this message). Please don't hesitate to offer any comments on my play.

Should we post a message in the registration thread?

 

[The Simple Mind]

"

so do you prefer "Simple", "Mind", "TSM",

"

TSM is fine though I'll understand when you use Simple when I make any noob mistakes.

Like pholtz, I use the BUFFY mod and like the info it provides. S.ilver, what mods do you use / prefer?

 

[S.ilver]

I'm an old school BUG user, likely because my involvement on these forums has always been in SGs, and never in HoF or GotM. I disliked the HoF mod because it was previously incompatible with the BUG mod. I have not personally used BUFFY, but from the sounds of it, it is a merge between HoF and BUG. However, since it is an actual MOD, I would prefer if we did not use it.

BUG, on the other hand, can be installed directly into the CustomAssets folder so you can load any old save with it and be fine. I am unsure if having BUG in the CustomAssets conflicts with BUFFY. I'll have to check that. My gut says that it shouldn't, as BUFFY would supposedly override the CustomAssets folder since it has all the appropriate BUG changes as well. The reason I'd rather use BUG in that manner is to keep the saves BtS compatible in case a random lurker wants to load up the save and see what we are doing.

Verbosity in this game is very welcome. If you've read any previous aCKs or the dreaded Boffs, you'll find the threads full of novel-length reports and titanic discussions.

Photobucket is what I personally use for all my SGs. It has a huge storage capacity, so you're good to go there. Make sure to make a separate folder for each SG, so you can organize the images more easily.

As for the actual cropping of screens for reports, I use Photoshop for that. If you don't have Photoshop, I've heard that GIMP is a great free alternative, although I've never actually used it myself.

Is there a specific leader that you guys would like to play, or should I be rolling dice to figure that out? I have not used a Financial leader in ages (actually, I don't think I've ever played an SG with a financial leader), as I feel that it is a crutch. Since my objective is to get you guys playing a stronger game, we would naturally have to remove such crutches.

 

[sturick]

As a two time graduate of the aCK academy I highly recommend any lurkers to snatch up the final roster spot for this game.

Even with the unfortunate absence of Liquidated (get well soon!) you will see a noticeable improvement in your gameplay. Sillver is quite a fine teacher and you will be in good hands.
I credit the aCK series for an increase of at least one level of difficulty in my gameplay.

Anyhoo...for what its worth...

I have used both BUG and BUFFY.
They are almost identical in interface and features. BUFFY does feature a couple of nice features but nothing worthy of loading the MOD every time you play it. Besides, like Silver said, these games NEED to be accessible to the lurkers.

If you already have BUFFY you may need to rename your customassets folder. Best to go to the BUFFY thread for better info on how to do that...I would only confuse you.

Photobucket is a necessity...nuff said.

I use GIMP and it works like a charm. It just takes a while to load.

My advice to the new initiates is this...don't have an expectation of what you will learn from this game. Most of the areas that you might need improvement on are areas that you are unaware of.
Better to be a sponge and soak in as much as you can.

My other advice (if you haven't already done so) is to read the previous aCK threads.

aCK-1 could be a primer on the art of REXing and dotmapping. The sheer number of Y and V cities will astound! That will make sense when you read the thread. You will also learn the importance of diplomacy which is in my opinion the most often overlooked (or just flat out ignored) aspect of gameplay. Do yourself a favor and download the reference guide that Liq mentions about midway through (too lazy to find it right now). The leader info is invaluable!

aCK-2 is a great example of what to when it comes to warfare...unfortunately at times it is also a great example of what NOT to do when it comes to warfare. There are fewer crutchless leaders in the game than Tokugawa! It also provides some good information on the Apolostic Palace (AP) and how it can drastically affect gameplay.

The Boffo threads are the main reason I play SGs today...read them too!

I look forward to lurking this thread and possibly adding my own tidbits of knowledge along the way. Good luck to you!

 

[IamJohn]

I think I'm going to live life on the dangerous side and sign up if you're willing to take me since it looks like your are looking for newbies.

I'm happy to do what ever in regards to mods, as long as it isn't something that doesn't change the game much in regards to rules, etc.

 

[pholtz]

I have installed BUG as a custom asset. It is my understanding that this is the way to go if you want to leave the save file usable by anyone, even if they don't have BUG installed.

Question: What effect will this have when I try to run other mods like RFC? I had a small problem with BUFFY and had to change a line in the BUFFY.ini file. I'm checking over on the HOF area to make sure I did that right.

Also, am I correct that I should NOT install it as a mod?

 

[pholtz]

deleted as the message was just a test of photobucket.

 

[S.ilver]

The pictures look like they've worked properly pholtz. As you can see, the bucket resizes those huge pics automatically so they don't force side scrolling on the forum. Side scrolling is generally annoying and in threads where people don't use photobucket and don't crop, it can be a problem reading stuff. But you did it right there pholtz

You're correct that BUG should not be installed "as a mod". If it's in the CustomAssets it should run by default with Civ. There might be problems with other mods like interfaces disappearing if they don't have their own CustomAssets for the interface. In that case, there's a line in the .ini to NOT load your regular CustomAssets folder for each specific mod.

IamJohn, glad to have you aboard!

Does everyone want to chime in to what settings are desired? I can likely get the game rolled up by tomorrow. In typical aCK tradition, I'll roll 5 starts based on whatever starting parameters we want. The idea with the 5 starts is to even out the challenge. We generally don't want to pick the strongest start, nor do we want to pick the weakest start (unless we're masochistic and playing a Boff, which we aren't ).

 

[pholtz]

Any civ or leader is fine with me. Also I like the idea of a as random a map as possible, maybe 'shuffle' or something like that? That we we won't know what to expect and will have to make adjustments. But I'll go with whatever others wish, the experience of my first SG will be enough for me

 

[IamJohn]

I'm flexible, shuffle sounds good.

 

[The Simple Mind]

I'm happy to try any leader and map type. I can't remember if I've played shuffle before so that would be interesting.

 

[S.ilver]

Ok, so time to get the aCK-3 show on the road! The team pretty much unanimously says "Anything Goes!", so we are indeed going to grab one of those whacky shuffle maps. I'm also setting the leader on random, and we'll go with whoever we land.

Settings of this map are pretty standard. Standard size, standard number of players. Of note, the speed is set to EPIC. The reason for this is that S.ilver and Liquidated feel that Epic is the right speed for the SG format of play. It gives you more turns, so more chances for everyone to play, without completely messing up the production ratios and whatnot...

Permanent Alliances are also enabled, on account of it not being likely (but it's ALWAYS nice to have extra avenues, see Boff-01...). Other than that, all other settings are left as they are.

Ok, and the RNG gives us...

Justinian eh? I've never actually played him, so this might be interesting. He's Spiritual and Imperialistic. In a few words, we'll be able to expand pretty well while having a fairly easy time diplomatically as well. Come war time, fighting on our own soil will give us more fun Great Generals.

His UB is the Hippodrome, which is a Theatre replacement that costs the same as a regular Theatre. It provides one happy by default (regular Theatres do not), and also provides 2x happy for using the culture slider (the exact wording says +1 happy for every 5%, but since the slider is only moved in 10% increments, consider it 2x). Also of note is the fact that this building does not give extra happy for dyes, but it gives extra happy for horses. With that in mind, it means Dyes are nerfed and Horses are empowered for Justinian.

Please do note that, unlike a regular theatre, the Hippodrome has ZERO specialist slots, so you can't run artists by building it. This makes this building very independent of micromanagement.

On to the UU. The Cataphract is a Knight replacement with 2 extra strength, for a total of 12 strength. Unfortunately, it loses the built in immunity to first strikes. Note that the Cuirassier also has 12 strength, so for all intents and purposes, you are fielding a Cuirassier that does not count as a Gunpowder unit, has no immunity to first strikes, and doesn't have the built in 15% withdraw, against enemy Knights. The situation is still pretty strong. These guys should be able to dominate the battlefield in medieval times; they'll just need a bit of help against cities, as all Knights generally do.


Ok, enough talking about this civ. Let's move on to the starts. In aCK tradition I have generated 5 starts so we can pick from them. Generally the idea of the 5 starts is not to pick the strongest one, but to eliminate the extreme strong and extreme weak starts, so we can have something that's a bit more fair.

To get the starts, I actually rerolled the game each time (except I set Justinian as the leader so we wouldn't reroll as someone else). The practical effect of this is that each map contains a different set of rivals.

Start A:

Spoiler :

Start B:

Spoiler :

Start C:

Spoiler :

Start D:

Spoiler :

Start E:

Spoiler :

I'll save my comments until everyone has had a chance to voice their own about each start.

 

[Greentitch]

As a general anonymous lurker I was planning on getting in on the next aCK game to get started on SGs. Seems the spots go even faster than I imagined

 

[The Simple Mind]

Hi All,

So it’s Justinian. As S.ilver said, spiritual trait is good for diplo and I need to improve that.

Regarding the starts:

A I’m not a fan of having calendar resources or a lot of water in the bfc especially if no seafood. Though, all the water tiles are coastal so at least double coins. No food on display. I would guess there’ll be some in the fog. Possibly seafood to the left with one or two resources in the fog south-east. Plenty of wood for chopping and at least 3 hill. Not a lot of places metal or horses can pop.

B Deer is ok. Is that sugar or silk? I can never remember which icon is which. Beaver so-so, though always good for a couple of gags. Especially when there is plenty of wood in the vicinity.

C If I was playing a solo game I’d go with this one and probably move the settler one west to get the stone in the bfc. Plenty of floodplains for cottages & food. The question is it too good a start?

D Move the settler south-east and we’ve got a great settler / worker pump. Though there is a lot of water in the bfc.

E Another start with gold & floodplains. Nice


As this SG is about learning, I’m going to favour the starts that I wouldn’t normally play. My preference would be: A, B, D, E, C.

 

[IamJohn]

My thoughts on the starts (feel free to comment, point and laugh, whatever. )

-E seems like the easiest start to me, wow we could whip a lot of stuff out...
-C a little bit better then D for me
-D 3 food resources are still nice, that that's a lot of hammers we can chop out!
-C on the other hand, has a ton of floodplanes! We cottage or farm those and we're in buisness. A and B don't really have much in the way of food resources, and would be a lot slower starts imo, and so probably harder. B is by the artic as well, which would be a detractor as well for me since it would mean that we'd have more barbs than normal until we sat units up there to be barb patrol. A has just doesn't have much going for it other then a lot of grassland and ocean access (is it salty?)

My preference therefore

If we're going for a balanced start I'd probably go for D, followed roughly D or A.

 

[Whosit]

aCK-2 is a great example of what to when it comes to warfare...unfortunately at times it is also a great example of what NOT to do when it comes to warfare. There are fewer crutchless leaders in the game than Tokugawa! It also provides some good information on the Apolostic Palace (AP) and how it can drastically affect gameplay.

Ha ha . . . right you are, sturick . . . . But learning what not to do is equally as important as learning what is actually a good idea!

I'm out of the loop for a day and a half only to find that S.ilver has returned (huzzah!) and aCK-3 is already under way! Well, you won't regret it, fellows. I'll second sturick's suggestion to read the prior aCK and boff threads. Also, I like that cat way up at the top. Too bad my paper dropped that comic.

Glad to see your triumphant return, S.ilver! I also wish for Liq's speedy recovery. I look forward to lurking this game, see if I can't pick up any more pointers along the way. I don't think I've ever played with Justinian, so it'll be fun to see how this game turns out. Will you be a kind and benevolent ruler, or will you play like the AI and squash anyone who even thinks of looking at a different religion than yours? Only time will tell . . . . Chasing an early religion makes sense with Justinian's starting traits and techs, but who knows.

You got a pretty good draw on starts (I'm only slightly disappointed not to see any five seafood starts). Yeah. So, in closing: Hope you all have a good ride!

Also, check around the corners and under your beds. Chances are Tokugawa, Montezuma, and/or Genghis Khan are waiting for you!

 

[pholtz]

A - Actually a bit interesting. No food apparent, but they almost always give you one food resource. Is that hidden coast a clam? Spice and Dye aren't bad, pre-Calender we just farm them and they give an extra coin. Both dye's and one spice are irrigated. Yes, the site is so so, but with all that forest we could always chop a settler and put our second city down in a prime location. I think that's tundra to the north? This could be a horrible spot on an Archipelago map. I would settle in place. If it's a so so location we can't waste time.

B - Ugh. I think I see tundra to the west of us. This could be one of those tundra starts where the land has been improved for the starting city location. We could have marginal land all around us.

C - A wet dream. All those floodplains, and gold, and corn, and wine and hills for production, and STONE! I think that is coast S-SE of the warrior, so I would probably violate a rule and settle on the wine to make room for another city on the coast. By the time we get monarchy who would notice the lack of coin with that gold and all the cottages. Probably too good.

D - Possible archipelago map. 1 SE sounds good. Three sea food and a pig. And I think just enough hills, is that a plains hill under the trees one north of settler? I never do well on archipelago maps, so I could use the schooling. A great settler factory in the short term, GP's in the long term?

E - Gold again . Could be as good as C but not so apparent mostly because we can't see as much. If we kick out the best start, my vote would be here. Settle NE, where the warrior is, to give up 3 ocean tiles for at least a couple more flood plains. That's worth giving up the fish. We can let another coastal city to the south grab it. Going to move this down in my voting order as it may be too good.

voting order is
A - we may discover its horrible but all the forests play to the Imperialistic trait.
D - archipelago?
E - too good
C - too good
B - just bad

As far as first turns strategy. The different maps may call for different builds. Generally a worker is fastest development, but workboats or another warrior could be argued. Also, do we want to go for an early religion? If so we probably don't want a worker first thing as he won't have anything to do.