Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

Tradition - the revision to the old tree is fantastic, and so front-loading free culture buildings is a nice medium buff. I'm on my second game, and the AI seem to sample from many trees, but do still finish some.

Truly free GP from Wonders and policies - yes!

GSEM counter - I like the approach of a modified count increase across all types. I have a more casual play style than most experienced players, and if I understand your approach, it would make it easier to go for a GE after a few GS, rather than seeming to have to wait until near the end game to spawn a GE after many, many GS. It would also reduce the delay for a first GS if you pop a GE from early wonders? Nice.

 

[Acken]

I have added a Known Bugs section and Next version changes. That way people can know of future changes while I'm making them.

I just discovered a bad bug, the AI Grand Stategy SQL changes were no longer working after I split two files, so the AI was behaving mostly like in the base game regarding its victory goal (mostly wanting culture victory 80% of the time).

 

[Memoryjar]

I started a Shoshones, Pangea, Prince game.

Prince is still Prince, but it's tight for ancient and classical wonders. I lose GL T48. Also HG fall T62.
After T100, all wonders can be mine.

Stealing workers still have no real punishments, so early game is as usual. 4 cities, NC, Universities T130... Wait, only one slot ! Go for observatories with 3 cities mountains it will be handsome : No it isn't.

Gladly, decent production can allow a mix liberty-tradition with finishing tradition around T 100. Thanks to extra-culture and legalism for 4 amphis.

I missed rationalism at renaissance era for 1 turn. At this moment, I realize, rationalism is reachable at modern era. Good job. It messed my game but it's a good thing for medieval and renaissance era. I wonder when I will launch my space ship.

I'm at T 170 and 15turns from Public school. Your mod slows down science path but just enough to not be bored and to try other paths to win. It feels like a mod made by a domination player.

AIs are easy. No DoW, even Isabella or Japan are at my door. I thought sometimes Isabella will backstab me. I let my cities with only one CB and I'm still 7 th army in demographics. But no way. They fight them each other. Maybe Prince effect.

I need to try more games, specially in Immortal/Deity. I hope it fixes original game issue :a struggle first 100 turns after it's just a go-go to victory.

Extra-culture and industrial rationalism are nice. I can swim in 2trees and try other thing than Tradi-Ratio.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Acken]

Hey thanks for feedback !

Can't guarantee a challenge on Prince hehe. There was also a file not working properly in the current version and there is a chance most AI are stuck in "Culture victory" mod as in the base game.

Let me know how the game end up and which part you enjoyed/disliked.

 

[bonniepbilly]

Quick question:does your mod run on Mac?
It looks amazing and I would really like to try it. Can't test it now.
Thanks!

 

[Chum]

Acken:

Stoneworks still not available in Plains cities.

 

[Acken]

Acken:

Stoneworks still not available in Plains cities.

It's in the known bugs section

Quick question:does your mod run on Mac?
It looks amazing and I would really like to try it. Can't test it now.
Thanks!

Sadly no because this mod uses a custom DLL. No mod using a DLL are compatible with macs I'm afraid

Maybe a workaround exist I don't know.

 

[Chum]

It's in the known bugs section

You're in the known bugs section!

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Right now GSEM all have a common counter so if you create an Engineer it raises the counter by 1 and the next GSEM costs 100*(counter+1). The NQMod separates the counters, similar to GWAM, so that no matter how many GM you make it doesn't affect GE or GS. It is a solution but I don't like it because it makes all specialists always useful removing choice and creating a bit too many GP.

I don't think it removes choice. I always feel like specialists are generally a hindrance to a city -- unless you pick Secularism or Civil Society.

Specialists by themselves don't even give that much yield, and you are almost always better off working a tile for more gold, production, or food (or culture/faith). Particularly, when you are running specialists, you are most likely not working a food tile, and less food means slower growth which means less science and gold -- so working any specialist slots other than scientists slows down technology acquisition.

I think I will wait a bit with this mod until known bugs are fixed. Also, do you think you will make it so the Honor policy gives a generic Archer and a generic Spearman and no UU's? Getting Hoplites and bullying CS's to buy a settler felt a bit broken.

 

[Acken]

It gives an advantage to the civ. Don't really think it's more broken than free policies at each eras It's not rare to buy one of your settlers. Using honor in that fashion just allow you to do it faster.

Separate counters means just a lot more stuff. Wonders, gold etc... Even if you don't work them all at the start you will get a ton of them with Freedom and GPP modifiers. You are guaranteed to get like 6-7 each I'm strongly opposed to the idea. It removes the balance dilemna between them AND makes freedom even stronger.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

I mean that Honor policy gives a Hoplite, which is stronger than the usual Spearman, and then Greek UA makes it really easy to bully CS and get away without any penalty. No other civ can abuse Honor like that.

Also, in BNW people would just finish Tradition and buy 3-4 GG's if they have good faith output.. that also removes choice. You can make each science, engineering, and merchant specialist give +2 GPP, so that will delay their spawn rate if you are opposed to having many. But I personally feel stupid when I can't spawn various great people and must only work scientists because they are the best.

 

[Acken]

I mean that Honor policy gives a Hoplite, which is stronger than the usual Spearman, and then Greek UA makes it really easy to bully CS and get away without any penalty. No other civ can abuse Honor like that.

Yes that's why I said it's an advantage of Greece. But I still don't see the issue in the realm of various civs strength. It makes Greece better. But it doesn't make Greece abnormal. There's no loophole here. Greece and probably Persia can get around 250gold for free using a strategy. Meanwhile other civs get other bonuses.

I just don't think it's such an advantage that it requires a quick change. Helping weak civs will happen in v4 though. The hoplite is +2 over a spearman so any civ can still bully by adding a warrior (if the spearman is not already enough). As an example Ethiopia doesn't have to invest in a shrine, they can make a warrior and get the same result. I find it even interesting when some civs can get an advantage indirectly rather than straight from their UU/UB/UA. Like Sweden taking honor to generate generals and ally CSs.

 

[Mr. Shadows]

I just finished my first game using this mod, and I really like a lot of what you've done. I wanted to play with the changes you made to honor and piety so I chose Songhai since both trees work well for them. I love the changes you made to Honor, particularly the free spearman and archer early on, that really kick-started playing aggresively early. I also like that teching has slowed down a bit because it makes each era feel distinct and more meaningful. I was only playing on King and I jumped on the ai hard from the get go but they're def. more aggresive then they were. Is it my imagination or are they also less likely to (suicidally) embark their units inexplicably? I liked the culture buff too, not only are the policies more balanced but you have enough of them to combine them in interesting ways. Eventually, when we get used to the changes this might give more advantage to the human over the ai, but maybe not since NC and Rationalism have been so heavily nerfed. I also really appreciate the changes given to the units. My spearmen, swordsmen and longswordsmen became much more relevant while my ranged units stayed powerful but required a lot more protection. Great job on that. Also, and irrationally this pleased me the most, it was great to see that from gats onward ranged units kept their range. The inconsistancy there always drove me nuts. They're not unbalanced but a lot more fun to use now. The cities seem a little squishy now because they can be taken so easily but I'll have to turn up the difficulty and see if that's really an issue. King is still only King after all.

 

[Acken]

I just finished my first game using this mod, and I really like a lot of what you've done. I wanted to play with the changes you made to honor and piety so I chose Songhai since both trees work well for them. I love the changes you made to Honor, particularly the free spearman and archer early on, that really kick-started playing aggresively early. I also like that teching has slowed down a bit because it makes each era feel distinct and more meaningful. I was only playing on King and I jumped on the ai hard from the get go but they're def. more aggresive then they were.

Hey Mr shadows and thanks for the report. glad you're enjoying it so far.

Is it my imagination or are they also less likely to (suicidally) embark their units inexplicably?

This is a feature of Artificial Unintelligence which I am integrating to the mod.

The cities seem a little squishy now because they can be taken so easily but I'll have to turn up the difficulty and see if that's really an issue. King is still only King after all.

The city changes have a double effect. They make conquering easier for humans but also defending harder. If things get a bit too easy due to the AI inability to defend what I may end up doing is to keep the strength down but bump the health back up. But know that I'm a fan of how Civ4 does it anyway where a barely defended city just falls quickly.

Another solution would be to boost the AI reserve size.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Did a fun tiny map domination run with Egypt on Immortal. I guess, ranged units' weaknesses are now balanced low city strength. Also, melee units might be a little too strong right now. Extra culture on kills was definitely a nice buff to Honor, and in general the tree feels more synergetic. I like.

Will test out ICS CV next.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Actually, Honor opener and Warrior Code might be strong openers for many other strategies. That spearman and archer can do a lot of work protecting your lands and farming barb camps for culture and completing CS quests. If you get a cultural CS ally with their help, the two policies will have paid themselves rapidly. Given lower cultural costs and culture on all kills, you can probably open Honor and finish Tradition/Liberty with some early aggression just in time.

You can also open Honor with lategame domination and just farm all that culture off infantry/tanks, etc. And Montezuma used to be special...

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Wait, are SoZ, Pyramids, etc. are not policy tree dependent? It doesn't say in the description. Speaking of description, do you mind if I correct some of the sentences into proper English and send the corrections to you?

And another questions: Sovereignty grants 20% production towards science buildings, but if it's in the Industrial era, that only helps to build schools and labs. For example, Cultural Centers from Aesthetics helps with culture building production starting from amphitheaters, but amphitheaters become available in the Classical Era, as well as Aesthetics itself. But half of Sovereignty's usefulness is wasted.

 

[Mr. Shadows]

The city changes have a double effect. They make conquering easier for humans but also defending harder. If things get a bit too easy due to the AI inability to defend what I may end up doing is to keep the strength down but bump the health back up. But know that I'm a fan of how Civ4 does it anyway where a barely defended city just falls quickly.

Another solution would be to boost the AI reserve size.

I agree with you in principle. I think a big part of my problem was that I was playing on King; that difficulty has been WAY too easy for me for quite some time. I always had a lot more troops, and more advanced troops so it was easy to roll the ai.

 

[Acken]

Wait, are SoZ, Pyramids, etc. are not policy tree dependent? It doesn't say in the description. Speaking of description, do you mind if I correct some of the sentences into proper English and send the corrections to you?

No change to wonders. You can correct lines. Ideally send me the complete SQL line but if you do not please try to keep the correct syntax for icons. The reference is there: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=521970
Icons must be between brackets. So like Give +3 [ICON_RESEARCH] Science.

Edit: Oh okay you're right it's just a tooltip issue. I removed the Wonder line.

And another questions: Sovereignty grants 20% production towards science buildings, but if it's in the Industrial era, that only helps to build schools and labs. For example, Cultural Centers from Aesthetics helps with culture building production starting from amphitheaters, but amphitheaters become available in the Classical Era, as well as Aesthetics itself. But half of Sovereignty's usefulness is wasted.

That's a good point. Bonus may change for something more exciting.

Actually, Honor opener and Warrior Code might be strong openers for many other strategies. That spearman and archer can do a lot of work protecting your lands and farming barb camps for culture and completing CS quests. If you get a cultural CS ally with their help, the two policies will have paid themselves rapidly. Given lower cultural costs and culture on all kills, you can probably open Honor and finish Tradition/Liberty with some early aggression just in time.

You can also open Honor with lategame domination and just farm all that culture off infantry/tanks, etc. And Montezuma used to be special...

The culture will probably get capped at some point. NQMod uses a 30 cap.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

No change to wonders. You can correct lines. Ideally send me the complete SQL line but if you do not please try to keep the correct syntax for icons. The reference is there: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=521970
Icons must be between brackets. So like Give +3 [ICON_RESEARCH] Science.

By SQL you mean the documents from your folder? I opened Aesthetics.sql with Textpad, is this what I should be correcting:

/*Texts*/
Update Language_en_US Set Text='[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]Aesthetics[ENDCOLOR] improves the civilization ability to generate [ICON_TOURISM] Tourism.[NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Adopting Aesthetics allows you to earn Great Writers, Artists, and Musicians 25% faster. Unlocks the Uffizi Wonder.[NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Adopting all policies doubles the theming bonus from Museums and Wonders. The finisher also reveals Hidden Antiquity Sites.'
Where Tag='TXT_KEY_POLICY_BRANCH_AESTHETICS_HELP';
Update Language_en_US Set Text='[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]Flourishing of the Arts[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][ICON_CULTURE] Culture increased by 33% in all cities which have built a World Wonder and the empire immediately enters a [ICON_GOLDEN_AGE] Golden Age.'
Where Tag='TXT_KEY_POLICY_FLOURISHING_OF_ARTS_HELP';
Update Language_en_US Set Text='[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]Cultural Centers[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE]Amphitheaters, Opera Houses, Museums and Broadcast Towers are built 50% faster as well as Archaeologists.'
Where Tag='TXT_KEY_POLICY_CULTURAL_CENTERS_HELP';
/*Update Language_en_US Set Text=''
Where Tag='TXT_KEY_POLICY_ETHICS_HELP';*/
Update Language_en_US Set Text='[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]Artistic Genius[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE]A Great Artist appear and all Great Works give +2[ICON_TOURISM] Tourism.'
Where Tag='TXT_KEY_POLICY_ARTISTIC_GENIUS_HELP';
Update Language_en_US Set Text='[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]Fine Arts[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE]Amphitheaters, Opera Houses, Museums and Broadcast Towers now provide +1[ICON_TOURISM] Tourism. Also receive 50% of your excess [ICON_HAPPINESS_1] Happiness in [ICON_CULTURE] Culture'
Where Tag='TXT_KEY_POLICY_FINE_ARTS_HELP';
Update Language_en_US Set Text='Archaeologist Units'
Where Tag='TXT_KEY_UNITCOMBAT_ARCHAEOLOGIST';

?

If so, I can do it some time during the week.

That's a good point. Bonus may change for something more exciting.

I think you can change Sovereignty so that it gives +1 and +1 to science buildings. That way, the hammer bonus is almost like a retroactive +20% production towards science buildings because the libraries and universities that have already been build will slowly pay for their own hammers and contribute towards new science buildings.