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Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)

Acken said:
One thing I'm also contemplating to help CS interest is to make their luxuries more random in the map generator. As you guys know CS often have a lot of the same resources.
Click to expand...

Would that not that just provide more reward for killing more CS? The CS being heavily redundant in lux currently means that killing a second and third one does not provide much gain. Or do you think more variability would make the CS more attractive to the AIs as allies?
 
chumchu said:
@ Phukit
Poland: I rate their unique building as above average as pastures are very common and become really good tiles with stables. I build stables in cities with 3 such resources and the polish stables are roughly twice as good: they cost 17% less, give gold in addition to hammers and give xp in addition to production boost. The same with their unique unit now that Lancers have been buffed. A lancer with + 3 strength, +1 move, shock, and heavy charge [plus 15 xp from the stables] will demolish anything else in the era and be evenly matched to Rifles with their extra mobility and promotions.

Have you tried massed cavalry attacks with a special unit in the mod? I tried with companion cavalry on deity. They can do brutal surprise attacks and they eat cities once you break through the enemy's defenses [which they are quite good at]. I think that winged hussars are even more dominant in their era than companions [No counters from spears and pikes]



With the nerf to solidarity they are an above average civ, but they have to leverage their other uniques and not just rely on their free policy tree.

Camels and Keshik: The closest comparable unit are crossbows and they are way better than those. They were the two best unique units in the game before the mod, and now one of their counters, x-bow, have been nerfed.

Japan: I see Japan as one of the big benificaries of the mod, melée units are way better, honor has been improved, and sacrificing units is often needed to break through defensive position, all of which make samurais and bushido better. They are a war civ with no relevant economy bonus. Among those they are middling. I just think that they could use a more interesting unique unit to have an Era where they are particularly good at war. I would like to avoid giving out more culture on non-culture buildings, Dojo could be an armory that gives 15 extra xp.
Click to expand...

Dont get me wrong,I like the winged hussars but I dont find them near as dominant as some other UUs.

And I still disagree about their UB,yes pastures are common,But im not self founding 6-7 cities with this mod,if im lucky i may have 8-10 pastures in the cities i have control over.The extra gold is nice to be sure but at best it pays for the maintenance on 2 units especially considering the diminishing returns on gold in the later eras.

As for the UA no one argues it is very powerful.....but especially in this mod which is geared towards early war,you are very rarely getting the full 7 policies from the UA.the last 2-3 policies from the UA are usually just fluff/filler at that point especially with the extra culture available to every civ in the mod.

I am more interested in working to bring some of the other civs up to par than I am nerfing the top tier civs.
 
beetle said:
Would that not that just provide more reward for killing more CS? The CS being heavily redundant in lux currently means that killing a second and third one does not provide much gain. Or do you think more variability would make the CS more attractive to the AIs as allies?
Click to expand...

The AI doesn't value luxuries in its conquest of city states so it wouldn't change the frequency of killing. You're right that they would get a bit more luxuries in the process. I don't think +4 will really make them stronger once they start eating cities though. My main purpose with thiis would be to also help the player in having more randomness in CS luxuries rather than have 5 allies all with the same lux. In a way an attempt to raise the value of the alliance.
 
Acken said:
One thing I'm also contemplating to help CS interest is to make their luxuries more random in the map generator. As you guys know CS often have a lot of the same ressources.
Click to expand...

Infact CS often have no luxury resource at all.
 
Acken said:
I strongly suggest you get a second happiness source from a second tree to help yes.

All trees beside Aesthetics give a source of happiness which is often 1 per city and available in 3 policies. The exception is Commerce which gives a lot more but requires a bigger investment in the tree.
Click to expand...


I still think it would be prudent to slightly nerf the AIs happiness bonus.
 
I finally finished my Byzantium game- Really tired of it, had to replay the ending about ten or fifteen times to get it right, both leading AIs win peacefully around T260, I managed to win by simultaneously declaring war on 4 Civs and taking 5 capitals in the same turn with Atomic Bombs, Atomic Missiles and Xcom.

~

Since people are posting their suggestions I'll finally post up what I've been saving for a long time.

Units

~Catapult
* (I feel like Catapults are one of the worst units in the entire game. They got a slight buff with
the mod, but buffing melees definitely negated it. Catapults cost the same amount of Hammers Composite Bows do and they're worse in almost every way imaginable. I have tried using them in many games and they always failed me. They definitely need a rework.)
+ Change their Combat Strength from 8 to 9
+ Change their Hammer value from 75 to 65

~Trebuchet
* (Trebuchets are viable, though Crossbows are almost always preferred. I would just bring them in line with Crossbows defensively. For some reason I feel like you already did this, but I can only find the patchnotes for v3)
+ Change Combat Strength from 12 to 13

~Musketman
* (Musketmen are totally fine balance wise in my opinion. My problem with them is that because of their position in the tech tree, Longswordsmen are almost completely irrelevant. If you are going for a Domination Victory you will most likely be using the bottom half of the tech tree, which means that after Machinery you will go into Steel and then Gunpowder as soon as possible. This means Longswords are around for about ten to twenty turns, depending on one's tech path. This is especially troublesome for Civilizations with Longswords Unique Units like Japan. I think a simple change to the tech tree combined would be an elegant change.
+ Musketmen are available with Metallurgy instead of Gunpowder

~Lancer
* (Lancers have already received a lot of love and I think they're almost viable now. Sadly, much like the Longswords they lack a good window of opportunity. The single most important Horse unit in the game is the Knight, it would be amazing to have Lancers as a counterpart to Pikemen. They need to be available before the AI has Rifles and Gatling Guns, because the Lancer cannot really keep up with those. Therefore I would put Lancers into the Gunpowder tech, which creates a nice window of opportunity for them to be strong. This will let Civilizations with Lancer Unique Units rush them and possibly overrun a city or two. They still come way later than Chivalry and are not on the ideal tech path, but they have an important role now. Another neat thing to note is that upgrading your promoted Pikemen early for a push is now actually a viable strategy. In order to keep the balance I would suggest removing the +1 combat strength you added in the mod.)
+ Lancers are now available at Gunpowder instead of Metallurgy
+ Combat Strength is reverted to the original 25

~Anti Tank Gun
* (Without any exaggeration, this unit is simply horrible. By far the single worst unit in the game. Sometimes I don't even consider upgrading my Lancers worth it. This unit clearly needs a lot of love. Adding movement would make this unit into the only decent blocker unit with 3 movement, which creates a nice niche and allows it to move onto a hill and fortify, for example. It also helps with outmanouvering enemy troops to get to Landships or Tanks, the units it is supposed to counter.)
+ Change available Movement Points from 2 to 3

Cosmetic Change

*(Since Lancers now Arrive at Gunpowder and Muskets at Metallurgy, it would probably be accurate to just switch the name of the technologies around.)
 
Religion

~Pantheon
* (I love the new Pantheons and have no complaints. I think they are extremely well balanced now.)

~Follower Beliefs
* (A few of them are lacking and on the binge of viability. I feel like they just need a little something to be competitive with Tithe.)
+ Church Property now gives +3 Gold per City instead of +2
+ Papal Primacy now gives + 25 Influence upon converting a city state, but is no longer permanent
+ Peace Loving now gives + 1 Happiness for every 6 followers of your religion in foreign cities, including enemy cities
+ World Church now gives +1 Culture for every 7 followers of this Religion in every city, including yours

~Follower Beliefs
+ Feed the World now gives +1 Food for Shrines and +2 Food for Temples
+ Swords into Ploughshares now gives +10% Food if not at war

~Enhancer Beliefs
+ Reliquary now gives +50 Faith and +50 Gold upon expending a Great Person
 
Civilizations

~Arabia
* (Arabia is still one of the strongest Civilizations in the game, but they've been hit hard by the fact that selling luxuries is much, much less profitable now. Still, I don't feel like they need a buff, just a tweak that should have been patched long ago. However, I feel like the Camel Archer definitely needs a slight nerf. It is by far (just my opinion) the best Unique Unit in the game. Its Ranged Strength is 21. Just to compare: Artilleries are 28, Keshiks are a measly 16 and Crossbows are sitting at 18.)
+ All Trade Routes now apply Pressure more effectively, not just Caravans
+ Camel Archer ranged Strength reduced from 21 to 20

~Assyria
* (Assyria have always suffered from decent but situational bonuses. Having a filled Great Writing slot as requirement for giving +15 exp is just a horrible mechanic. Their Unique Ability is also highly random. I suggest changing it to Assyria stealing a tech like a Spy would, but that might push them over the edge, so I will let it rest for now. Their Unique Unit is very strong if used right. I don't know why they went with 15 experience on the Royal Library when 20 is needed for a level up.)
+ Royal Library no longer has a Great Slot of Writing
+ Royal Library no longer needs a filled Writing Slot in order to grant experience
+ Royal Library now grants 20 experience instead of 15

~Byzantine
* (Byzantium is, in my opinion, one of the worst civilizations in the game. They can potentially be very strong, but only if you are playing on a coastal map and your opponents have coastal capitals. I feel like their Unique Ability is actually very strong, especially now seeing as the AI does not favor religion as much. Getting two Pantheons is very, very big. I feel it is very unfair that great Civilizations like Greece exist, where their Unique Unit, the Companion Cavalry has not one (+1 Movement), not two (added Combat Strength, but three (Great Generals 1) amazing advantages. The Cataphract needs some love in order to make Byzantium a relevant Civilization for early warfare. They are already good in that they can fortify and are one of the very few units that can keep up with Swordsmen early, but Horsemen are used for the additional movement point and Cataphract need something to make up for this loss.)
+ Cataphract now gains the Great Generals 1 Promotion
+ Dromon Hammer value reduced from 56 to 50

~Carthage
* (This is another contender for weakest Civilization in the game. They have been buffed indirectly by buffing Horsemen and buffing wide play, which Carthage benefits from. Their bonus of being able to move over mountains is extremely situational and rather negligible. They really need an economic boost for when they are starting inland in order to be viable. Since they are also a Civilization leaning towards Domination Victories and roads are essential for Domination Victories I feel like this is a bonus that would suit them well. Triremes are sadly a terrible unit, so I suggest giving Carthage a unique Caravel, since not a single Civilization in the game features one.)
+ Additional Unique Ability: Pay only half for road tile maintenance
+ Quinquereme is now no longer a Trireme but a Caravel
+ Quinquereme starts with the Coastal Raider Promotion

~Dutch
* (To me, the Dutch are the definition of a mediocre Civilization. Their Unique Ability is not very good, but it's also not bad at all. Their Unique Unit on the other hand is just suboptimal and its bonuses don't work well together, I would like a little more Synergy. Giving them Boarding Party makes them stronger against enemy navy, which allows you to capture more ships. Polders are absolutely fantastic, but you won't get to build them on many tiles. I don't want to suggest too many changes since I don't want to push them over the edge.)
+ Sea Beggars now start with Boarding Party I instead of Coastal Raiders I
+ Polders are now available at Currency
+ The Dutch now have a Swamp start bias

~Ethiopia
* (This, in my opinion, is one of the Civilizations where the developers really fked up. Their bonuses work against each other. Stele might just be the best Unique Building in the game, which makes wide play very powerful, but their Unique Ability encourages tall play.)
+ Unique Ability now grants Combat Strength against opponents with less cities instead of more

~Hunnic
* (This Civilization might just be the single strongest contender for a Domination Victory in the entire game. Their ability to mass Horse Archers is problematic, but fixed with a single change.)
+ Horse Archers now actually need Horses in order to be built

~Inca
* (Another amazing Civilization, but this time for peaceful and warring games. All their bonuses are amazing, they're very synergetic. I feel like a small nerf is in place.)
+ Keep no maintenance cost for Improvements on Hills, but full maintenance cost everywhere else

~India
* (I feel like India are unappreciated for wide play, but they have one fatal flaw: early expansion is punished, which is extremely troublesome when playing on high difficulties.)
+ Unhappiness from founding a city is now 5 instead of 6

~Indonesia
* (Once again Indonesia is one of those Civilizations that only work well on water-based maps. They do however have a great Unique Building, which I think is fine as it is. A little rework of the Unique Ability and a complete rework of the Unique Unit can make this Civilization compete with the others. I would very much like a unique unit that accompanies their playstyle, that can be massed and can be used to discover new continents.)
+ Unique Ability now grants you a single Unique Luxury in your capital in addition to the ones you get for founding on a new Continent
+ Kris Swordsmen now gain +1 Sight and +1 Movement when embarked
+ Kris Swordsmen now cost 65 Hammers instead of 75
+ Kris Swordsmen lose their random bonus

~Iroquois
* (They already recieved a major buff when Swordsmen were made viable. The Forest Pantheon also really helps the Iroquois. They are still an extremely weak Civilization. Their Unique Ability iirc is very buggy and often times makes things worse instead of helping.)
+ Longhouse now also gives you +10% Production Value
+ Unique Ability changed to:
+ Units move through Forest and Jungle in friendly territory as if it is Road
+ Gain one additional Trade Route slot upon researching The Wheel
+ Caravans move along Forest and Jungle as if they were Roads

~Japan
* (With only a few very slight tweaks this Civilization can go from mediocrity to being a very unique warmongering Civilization. First off, I think their Unique Ability is fine, but it would be nice if they had another bonus for peaceful play. I suggest adding Tourism to Work Boats and Atolls, since it helps with Ideological Pressure for a Domination Victory or helps with a Culture Victory. The Samurai needs some love, but it is very strong, especially with the changes to Longswords that I posted earlier. I would suggest giving it Shock. My only two problems with the Japanese are the Zero - it comes too late to do anything of worth. However, if the Zero was actually a Triplane, it would open up so many amazing strategies; for example: the player can now rush Flight, get Autocracy, build Prora and after that spam Zeroes without needing Biology, since they are not Oil reliant. They are not nearly as strong as Bombers, but they have a lot of offensive and defensive utility. This would make Japan a very unique Civilization and help distinguish them from others. Triplanes used offensively also benefit from Bushido a lot more, so there would be synergy with their Unique Ability. Aditionally, the ability to build sea imrpovements with Samurai is a fking joke. Steel comes way, way too late, at a point where all your sea resources should have been improved long ago.)
+ Workboats and Atolls now provide +1 Tourism upon researching Flight
+ Unique Ability now lets you build Work Boats for 20 Hammers instead of 30
+ Samurai can no longer build Work Boats
+ Samurai now start with Shock instead of Drill
+ The Zero is now a Triplane with Interception 50 and +33% bonus against other Triplanes

~Morocco
* (Once again one of the, if not the, worst Civilization in the game. Their economic bonuses are almost nonexistent, especially considering how likely you are to lose your Caravan to a greedy AI now. They are also heavily dependant on a desert start, which is always bad if you don't get it. The Berber Cavalry is mediocre at best and the Kashbah is only really good in a Petra city. Their Trade Route bonus is very weak, especially since Trade Routes have been nerfed this much. I feel like in order for them to feel unique they have to get a really strong bonus for their Trade Routes, so that they prioritize those technologies and the East India Company.)
+ Unique Ability +2 Gold for everyone sending a Trade Route to Marocco removed
+ Unique Ability now also grants +1 Gold and +1 Culture for every internal Trade Route
+ The Kashbah defensive bonus is removed
+ The Kashbah now grants +2 Food, +1 Production and +2 Gold upon researching Biology
+ The Berber Cavalry loses its bonus in desert
+ The Berber Cavalry can now fortify and receive defensive bonuses

~Ottoman
* (Both the Ottoman Unique Units are very interesting, but only the Janissary has good bonuses. The idea of using the Sipahi as a spotter is neat, but it needs more help to do that role better. The Ottoman Unique Ability needs a rework, but I personally hate the one it got in NQMod.)
+ Unique Ability is completely scrapped
+ Unique Ability now gives you Gold worth half the opponents combat strength on kills
+ Sipahi now receives the +1 Sight Promotion and +1 Movement, but loses its other bonuses
+ Sipahi now has a Combat Strength of 24 instead of 25

~Polish
* (By far the strongest Civilization in the game, but I feel like buffing the weaker Civilizations is much more effective compared to nerfing the strong ones, so I will only tweak them a tidbit.)
+ Winged Hussars now have 26 Combat Strength instead of 27
+ Winged Hussars lose their additional Movement Point

~Polynesia
* (Their Unique Improvement is very interesting, but you will have to sacrifice farms, which is a big downside.)
+ The Moai now gives you +1 Food instead of +1 Culture, rest remains unchanged
+ The Moai still grants Culture for nearby Moai

~Roman
* (Legions are a little too strong right now, aside from that they seem fine to me. Ballistas are still easy to deal with.)
+ Legions Combat Strength reduced by 1

~Spanish
* (The concept of the Conquistador is very nice, but the Tercio is just lacking. I also find their Unique Ability to be too luck dependant.)
+ Unique Ability now gives +200 Gold when finding a Natural Wonder, no matter whether you are first or not
+ Tercio loses its additional Combat Strength, but now has a bonus against Mounted Units and Gunpowder Units

~Zulu
* (With the nerf to Impi the Zulu are in a very odd state right now. Rushing Chivalry is not the most viable of options. In my opinion, Impi should be Longswordsmen.)
+ Impi are now Longswordsmen
+ They have the same Combat Strength as ordinary Longswordsmen
+ They lose their Spear Throw promotion
+ They gain the Charge Promotion, usually only available for Mounted Units
+ They keep their bonus against Gunpowder Units and Mounted Units, even upon upgrading
+ They upgrade to Musketmen like regular Longswordsmen would
 
It was the continents game I started the write-up on a few pages earlier. I will finish that as soon as I feel like it, 160 turns is a lot to write. Definitely my hardest game yet by far.
 
Acken said:
No sorry it was meant for Phukit



On what map ?
Click to expand...

I play mostly pangea/continents...but have been playing a bit of the NQ pangea and archepielago maps the past few days.

There are always a few CS in my games that dont have a lux,they all have some type of resource but its not always a lux.

This was also true for me in the base game
 
I have only ever seen a CS without a lux because someone takes it before the CS does due to the way borders expand.

On a related note I am finding that conquering 1 CS, rather than just grabbing a worker is a pretty good idea. There is usually a redundant mercantile or hostile militiristic CS somewhere, and a military big enough to take it is about the minimum requirement for survival anyway. Maybe Pledge to protect shoul mean the attacker must declare war on the pledger or back down. A red diplo modifier does the city state little good. Gifting units should prolly give influence based on strength relative to the era it is in.

Cataphracts might be a good candidate for something like +1 strength per movement point left (or +x% or whatever is balanced) in addition to reverting their base stats to normal. They could act as horse based meele like vanilla cats, but still make use of their 4 movement if that's what's needed. The AI being unable to understand that might make it impractical though.

All water based UA, UU, and even techs and normal units are inherently problematic and there may not be any way to fix it. If the map is water based they are the best, if the map is heavily land or you start inland they are useless.

Kasbah should probably only be buildable on flat desert, but get at least an extra food or prod or a couple gold. it could get absurd with Petra but it does anyway. Giving kasbah more gold yield would help with its trade routes, but only if they were coming and going from a desert city. Maybe their UA should also let other civs routes reach moroccos cap from farther away? I feel like gold routes are much more important now, but also so much more risky.

Indonesia - one unique lux per landmass, up to 3. So your cap ( or first expo maybe ) gets one.

I like jung's idea of swapping lancers and muskets.

India - needs something... But I have no idea what. Cities start at size 2? Their start would be crazy fast and crazy slow at the same time.
 
ICanHasName? said:
Maybe Pledge to protect shoul mean the attacker must declare war on the pledger or back down.
Click to expand...

I'd be down with this, but not for 5 influence.

It would also really mess with diplomacy, since it's not just your pledges you need to worry about. Say hello to Greece.
 
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