Acularius' GEM for Caveman2Cosmos
- Thread starter Acularius
- Start date
MagnusIlluminus
Emperor
Using the latest SVN may be the problem in itself, as the SVN is often a bit broken. Try using the release of v27.
philipschall
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2009
- Messages
- 221
Hey folks, here's the latest GEM. Updated resources, works with latest SVN. I took some liberties and got rid of the zulu (they would always become #1), Ainu, Portugal (both have no expansion tendencies), and the Celts (gives spain, france, & rome more expansion room). I also switched byzantines to Goths and moved them up to the Danube (gives greece more expansion room, lowers germany's expansion slightly). Suggestions are welcome.
More frost north-east of otto's & west of mongols. I haven't played this map in awhile but that is a suggestion i'd like to make. There is too much room around there. I think buff arab and carthage land too. Does the map still have both siam and khmer next to each other? I think get rid of one of them also.
Hey, so, this version of the map seems to have the problem of not actually WORKING with v27. It just gives the 'auto-lose' garbage if you try to play it.
EDIT: I figured out what the problem was - it seems the default civics listed for the map were different from what C2C v27 wanted/expected them to be, which is this:
Code:
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_GOVERNMENT, Civic=CIVIC_ANARCHISM
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_POWER, Civic=CIVIC_OLIGARCHY
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_SOCIETY, Civic=CIVIC_PRIMITIVE
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_ECONOMY, Civic=CIVIC_COMMUNALISM
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_MILITARY, Civic=CIVIC_MILITIA
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_RELIGION, Civic=CIVIC_IRRELIGION
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_WELFARE, Civic=CIVIC_SURVIVAL
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_GARBAGE, Civic=CIVIC_NOTRASH
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_IMMIGRATION, Civic=CIVIC_NOBORDERS
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_EDUCATION, Civic=CIVIC_IGNORANCE
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_LANGUAGE, Civic=CIVIC_NO_SPEAK
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_AGICULTURE, Civic=CIVIC_NOFARM
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_CURRENCY, Civic=CIVIC_NO_CURRENCY
CivicOption=CIVICOPTION_POLITICS, Civic=CIVIC_STRONGMANphilipschall
Warlord
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- Aug 14, 2009
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- 221
Snap, I was going off the latest SVN of v27, not base v27, if you want you can fix it yourself (cut n' paste in the text file of the wbsave) or I'll get an alternate version in the morning.
I think I'll alter siberia/ east of urals to be more of garbage land without changing the resources. I do agree, Arabia & Carthage need to be more formidable. The problem with Arabia is that their land is great once you hit Ancient era, but really challenging in the very beginning.
I think I'll alter siberia/ east of urals to be more of garbage land without changing the resources. I do agree, Arabia & Carthage need to be more formidable. The problem with Arabia is that their land is great once you hit Ancient era, but really challenging in the very beginning.
Ah, well, I already changed my own version, so I may as well upload it so you don't have to.
In the first post there was a to do list if ur interested 
-Placement of new resources: [NB - No building associated , NHH - No health and/or happiness associated) <- Determines priorities *** = High Priority
MOAR MINERALS - Cross reference with this map I found. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...&postcount=312 ***
Fossils - Going to look at the buildings it relates to, from that I will determine where to place the fossil resource. (Combinations with other resource, will have to cross reference, late game resource though.)
Geodes - Awesome. (NB/NHH = Low Priority)
Guinea Pigs - TBD (NB/NHH = Low Priority)
Henna - Some replacing of dyes (Replacing 'Dye' placement on the map in the appropriate area) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henna
Indigo - Similar to Henna (Replacing 'Dye' placement on the map in the appropriate area) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigofera_tinctoria
Kangaroo - Australia as far as I know, will look into this for placement (larger concentrations) [Only benefits Master Hunter]
Murex (Tyrian Purple) - Will probably have the greatest concentration in the Mediterranian, but I think a couple of other species that produce a similar dye will be scattered in areas where the native specie in question is present. (Leads into the 'Dye' building chain) *** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murex_trunculus
Terrain placement: (Thought I was done this. :/ )
I think this was done in a previous change.
- More Barren.
- Need to fill in a blotch of 'Ocean' with 'Tropical Ocean' south of Brazil. Off the coast of Rio de Plata (I believe)
--
You might want to think about giving Mayans some extra land, maybe just some more lush hills or something.
-Placement of new resources: [NB - No building associated , NHH - No health and/or happiness associated) <- Determines priorities *** = High Priority
MOAR MINERALS - Cross reference with this map I found. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...&postcount=312 ***
Fossils - Going to look at the buildings it relates to, from that I will determine where to place the fossil resource. (Combinations with other resource, will have to cross reference, late game resource though.)
Geodes - Awesome. (NB/NHH = Low Priority)
Guinea Pigs - TBD (NB/NHH = Low Priority)
Henna - Some replacing of dyes (Replacing 'Dye' placement on the map in the appropriate area) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henna
Indigo - Similar to Henna (Replacing 'Dye' placement on the map in the appropriate area) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigofera_tinctoria
Kangaroo - Australia as far as I know, will look into this for placement (larger concentrations) [Only benefits Master Hunter]
Murex (Tyrian Purple) - Will probably have the greatest concentration in the Mediterranian, but I think a couple of other species that produce a similar dye will be scattered in areas where the native specie in question is present. (Leads into the 'Dye' building chain) *** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murex_trunculus
Terrain placement: (Thought I was done this. :/ )
I think this was done in a previous change.
- More Barren.
- Need to fill in a blotch of 'Ocean' with 'Tropical Ocean' south of Brazil. Off the coast of Rio de Plata (I believe)
--
You might want to think about giving Mayans some extra land, maybe just some more lush hills or something.
philipschall
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2009
- Messages
- 221
Yeah, I got all those resources placed.
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
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- 3,524
Have you updated all 3 GEMs or just the 50 civ one?
Acularius
King
Glad to see it still being continued.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
I believe version 27 this might be correct, BUT if you use the current SVN one its different still, i believe these are the new ones in order:
Spoiler :
philipschall
Warlord
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- Aug 14, 2009
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- 221
The next thing I want to fix is the hemisphere spawn problem, so toucans and such don't spawn in africa. How would I go about doing this? What, if any, xml would I have to alter for this purpose? Would I have to manually change all plots on the map?
Hmm...it looks like the animal spawn info is located in \XML\Units\CIV4\SpawnInfo.xml. The main problem with the animal spawn locations seems to be longitude requirements: toucans, for instance, will only spawn between -180 and -60 degrees longitude. In real life, this corresponds to the area between Alaska and around the middle of South America - far from perfect, but the spawning system isn't supposed to be specific to Earth maps.
How do you fix this? By remaking the map so that the continents are in the 'right' places, with England in the center and the Bering Strait at the edge.
DRJ
Hedonist
...or edit the spawn.xml file manually so it fits the giant earth map. What would be the values for that?
philipschall
Warlord
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I just checked the map, Britian (The "center") begins at x=12, whereas the true center (australia) is at x=105. I'm looking at the spawn info's and I'm not sure what the conversion from x to latitude is. If I had an rough number of latitude that the map was off by I could change the Spawninfo XML easy.
rightfuture
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,649
GEM is playing beautifully with the current SVN, great job guys. I support everything you do. Hope the current version is included in the svn and every new version made.
Like the standard map, and perfectworld scripts, in should be included and kept updated to keep up with new features.
GEM is teh awesome. C2C and GEM are almost the perfect pairing.
Like the standard map, and perfectworld scripts, in should be included and kept updated to keep up with new features.
GEM is teh awesome. C2C and GEM are almost the perfect pairing.
philipschall
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2009
- Messages
- 221
Hey folks, I want to start brainstorming game options for GEM specifically. GEM isn't scaled to normal C2C play, and thus is riddled with issues for balance and scaling. I want to fix this (with the help of the modding team), but first I want to know what gripes you have with balance & gameplay when it comes to the GEM.
Here are mine:
1.The game becomes an expand-fest, where he-who-builds-the-most-cities wins.
Possible solutions:
Increased REV across the board, with emphasis on number of cities.
Increased terrain damage.
Increased Settler cost/hard limit on # of buildable settlers, colonists (making warfare the only way to expand after a while) (I like this idea a lot)
2. Civ becomes 1st place, stays 1st place for rest of the game
Possible solutions:
-
and -
for #1 civ due to "decadence"
Increased barbarian activity around #1 civ's borders (Sadly, the great wall would nerf this)
Increased REV due to "decadence"
3. "It shouldn't take 10 turns to cross the pacific!" (Movement isn't scaled for GEM)
Possible solutions:
"GEM" default promotion (+1
for all foot land units (like GK's original GEM), +2 for mounted units and vehicles, +2 for ancient and medieval ships, +4 for all Renaissance ships, +6 for all steam powered and up ships) applied on start.
Let's hear your gripes and/or solutions!
Here are mine:
1.The game becomes an expand-fest, where he-who-builds-the-most-cities wins.
Possible solutions:
Increased REV across the board, with emphasis on number of cities.
Increased terrain damage.
Increased Settler cost/hard limit on # of buildable settlers, colonists (making warfare the only way to expand after a while) (I like this idea a lot)
2. Civ becomes 1st place, stays 1st place for rest of the game
Possible solutions:
-
and - for #1 civ due to "decadence"Increased barbarian activity around #1 civ's borders (Sadly, the great wall would nerf this)
Increased REV due to "decadence"
3. "It shouldn't take 10 turns to cross the pacific!" (Movement isn't scaled for GEM)
Possible solutions:
"GEM" default promotion (+1
for all foot land units (like GK's original GEM), +2 for mounted units and vehicles, +2 for ancient and medieval ships, +4 for all Renaissance ships, +6 for all steam powered and up ships) applied on start.Let's hear your gripes and/or solutions!
Acularius
King
REV needs to be worked on, but unless we get someone from the original REV team, noone currently wishes to touch it and from what I understand... I can't blame them, definitely since they all have so much on their respective plates already (in regards to the C2C team).
Next is the problem that most of the 'barbarian' hordes that put pressure on the civilized world have themselves become civilizations, such as the Turks and Mongolians, and these are only the big name players.
Another problem is that a small nation, in vanilla, could keep up in the tech race by virtue of a scaling research cost that larger nations had problems keeping up with due to the inherent nature of keeping a amazing infrastructure that a smaller nation could easily manage. Not saying large nations meant losing, however, I can have a huge settled hinterland and keep on par with tech in the tech race.
So, in regards to the 1st thing, not much can be done.
As for the 2nd and 3rd points, maybe something can be tweaked somewhere that the barbarians ignore tiny nations and rampage the big ones. Furthermore, the Great Wall should not be all encompassing and should carry the risk of a barbarian horde getting through as was historical. "Can't go through the wall? Go around it!"... to sum that up, the 'Great Wall is OP'.
On my 3rd point, the tech scaling is just something hard to touch upon anyway, and a LOT of work is being done with it... I don't know what else to say other than it 'should scale better', so that smaller nations are not left to the 'dustbin of history' just because they have less cities that someone else. Thy should, in essence be competitive until they are actually crushed.
I would rather not penalize a player for playing well I, however, would rather the solution be something that adds an additional challenge that is hard to circumvent simply because that nation is the best. Increase the pressure, essentially, with over expanded nations... should lead to it crumbling. Or so the theory goes... If managed well though, should slow down the player's growth.
In summary,
-REV isn't being touched.
-Great Wall is OP, seriously, no way for barbarians to enter ANYWHERE... The Chinese definitely did not have THAT sort of protection.
-Small nations need to be just as competitive towards the big nations. Germany was competitive and could go toe to toe with Russia... as it stands Russia laughs at the barbaric Germans because they don't know how to make fire whereas they are smelting their first iron ingot.
- Something needs to keep the pressure on the largest nation, REV and Barbarian hordes should be kept relevant to gameplay as large nations usually had internal problems galore with various cultures and religions causing troubles.
I find that early ship movements too fast, and modern ship movements I can't comment because I rarely get to that point in the game. Maybe oceans should occur a increase movement cost, similar to forests/hills to land units without the appropriate promotions.
OR... an ocean improvement.
Supply lines/Trade routes.
Easy to build, provides movement bonus, acts like a road in terms of trade connections.
Pillage wise, very wealthy if it has active trade over it.
Edit: In regards to that suggestion, this means I will NOT say as England automatically have a sea trade connection to China UNLESS I have a trade route that stretches ALL THE WAY to China. Forts in this regard should allow trade to pass through as well, at a certain tech level so something like the Suez is viable, or creating the Dardenelles pass to create a connection to the Black Sea.
This also means that the trade routes need protection, stipulating a naval presence along the entirety of the route.
I generally got this idea from the trading system being developed for Europa Universalis IV.
Edit 2: The new scaling city limits might help, playing a game with them now to see how well...
Edit 3: In regards to Edit 1, connects resources on islands, like the island with stone near Athens (Greek starting point), or I believe copper on Cyprus and Wine on Crete.
Next is the problem that most of the 'barbarian' hordes that put pressure on the civilized world have themselves become civilizations, such as the Turks and Mongolians, and these are only the big name players.
Another problem is that a small nation, in vanilla, could keep up in the tech race by virtue of a scaling research cost that larger nations had problems keeping up with due to the inherent nature of keeping a amazing infrastructure that a smaller nation could easily manage. Not saying large nations meant losing, however, I can have a huge settled hinterland and keep on par with tech in the tech race.
So, in regards to the 1st thing, not much can be done.
As for the 2nd and 3rd points, maybe something can be tweaked somewhere that the barbarians ignore tiny nations and rampage the big ones. Furthermore, the Great Wall should not be all encompassing and should carry the risk of a barbarian horde getting through as was historical. "Can't go through the wall? Go around it!"... to sum that up, the 'Great Wall is OP'.
On my 3rd point, the tech scaling is just something hard to touch upon anyway, and a LOT of work is being done with it... I don't know what else to say other than it 'should scale better', so that smaller nations are not left to the 'dustbin of history' just because they have less cities that someone else. Thy should, in essence be competitive until they are actually crushed.
I would rather not penalize a player for playing well I, however, would rather the solution be something that adds an additional challenge that is hard to circumvent simply because that nation is the best. Increase the pressure, essentially, with over expanded nations... should lead to it crumbling. Or so the theory goes... If managed well though, should slow down the player's growth.
In summary,
-REV isn't being touched.
-Great Wall is OP, seriously, no way for barbarians to enter ANYWHERE... The Chinese definitely did not have THAT sort of protection.
-Small nations need to be just as competitive towards the big nations. Germany was competitive and could go toe to toe with Russia... as it stands Russia laughs at the barbaric Germans because they don't know how to make fire whereas they are smelting their first iron ingot.
- Something needs to keep the pressure on the largest nation, REV and Barbarian hordes should be kept relevant to gameplay as large nations usually had internal problems galore with various cultures and religions causing troubles.
I find that early ship movements too fast, and modern ship movements I can't comment because I rarely get to that point in the game. Maybe oceans should occur a increase movement cost, similar to forests/hills to land units without the appropriate promotions.
OR... an ocean improvement.
Supply lines/Trade routes.
Easy to build, provides movement bonus, acts like a road in terms of trade connections.
Pillage wise, very wealthy if it has active trade over it.
Edit: In regards to that suggestion, this means I will NOT say as England automatically have a sea trade connection to China UNLESS I have a trade route that stretches ALL THE WAY to China. Forts in this regard should allow trade to pass through as well, at a certain tech level so something like the Suez is viable, or creating the Dardenelles pass to create a connection to the Black Sea.
This also means that the trade routes need protection, stipulating a naval presence along the entirety of the route.
I generally got this idea from the trading system being developed for Europa Universalis IV.
Edit 2: The new scaling city limits might help, playing a game with them now to see how well...
Edit 3: In regards to Edit 1, connects resources on islands, like the island with stone near Athens (Greek starting point), or I believe copper on Cyprus and Wine on Crete.
rightfuture
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,649
Some of these solutions could fix Revolutions, Gameplay balance, and overcome obstacles to what people like, don't like, and want. Even if people don't have the will right now, it may be partly because the solutions havn't been figured out, or the challenge is too daunting. Break it down into achievable challenges, solution oriented debate. and basic level experimentation, and the log jam can be freed. It's a matter of will and leverage.
Just because solutions can't be figured out or implemented right now, doesn't mean there aren't ways to debate it out over time. It also doesn't mean that there isn't a simpler solution. Not all mountains have to be scaled from the cliff side. Sometimes you can even find a shortcut. If you don't look, you can't find.
Just because solutions can't be figured out or implemented right now, doesn't mean there aren't ways to debate it out over time. It also doesn't mean that there isn't a simpler solution. Not all mountains have to be scaled from the cliff side. Sometimes you can even find a shortcut. If you don't look, you can't find.
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