Acularius' GEM for Caveman2Cosmos

[DRJ]

Okay, for whatever reason my computer didn't save any of the changes I made.

Well the Natural Wonders are in, so that worked. When playing the Manchurian Candidate (Jurchen Tribe), I was pleasently surprised to find one in Kamchatka

 

[Northstar1989]

Ok, so this has been a pet-peeve of mine for quite a while. The game is called CAVEMAN to Cosmos, but the Giant Earth Map doesn't have nearly as many *CAVES* as actual Earth does...

In particular, historically important cave networks are missing from certain regions of China, the Balkans (modern Bulgaria/Romania), North Africa, East Africa, and South America. These are all regions that contain caves with extensive modern-day archaeological sites and cave paintings, etc.; and considering the high value of caves early in the game they would do a lot to create a more "realistic" Earth map...

I already overwrote the GEM map that came with my previous version of C2C with a number of these caves added, as well as some forests in now-deforested areas that were heavily forested early in human history (the GEM lacks forests in several such areas- apparently the map designers went off areas that are currently forested or were in the past few centuries rather than at the beginning of human history), some additional marine wildlife off the cost of the Arab Emirates and Qatar (historically these areas have always been important sources of pearls and shellfish), some tweaks to the fertility of those same areas (the ENTIRE Arabian Peninsula is not Dunes/Desert in real life. The central area certainly nearly is, but certain coastal regions are *much* more fertile- a few tiles of Scrub or Plains in C2C terms, or just an additional Oasis or two...), and a few other tweaks. So I have a pretty good idea how to implement the caves additions, as well as several other important tweaks...

I'd be more than happy to send back an edited file with the additional caves (I'll save the other tweaks for later- one thing at a time), as well as website links justifying each added Cave-feature, if somebody would provide me with whatever the most recent working versions are of the Giant Earth Maps (not necessarily the version in the latest C2C release- but whatever is now the latest version in-the-works). PM me and I can provide you with my e-mail or any other necessary information.


P.S. How do I know so much about relevant Geography? I'm a huge history buff, and a lifelong-learner. I had the highest GPA in History/Social Studies in my entire high school (only about 320 in my graduating class, though), and I was a founding member of my high school's Model United Nations Club (I also consistently won awards at the conferences, often just barely being edged out for the conference-wide first-place award) I then attended Cornell University as an undergraduate, where I took additional history courses as electives. Of particular note here, I represented the nation of Qatar (one of the emirates on the Arabian Peninsula) for one of my high school MUN conferences (a rare one when I wasn't U.S., UK, France, Russia, or some other key nation)- so I made it my job to learn as much about the nation of Qatar as I possibly could. Did you know it's where the United States organizes and commands almost all of its Mideast military efforts from, for instance?

 

[Sgtslick]

When you open the map with notepad++ each tile is listed. It is there that changes are made. Its not an easy process and is somewhat time consuming, so putting vacancies just down to a 'lack of knowledge' or whatever isn't really the full story.

If you want to go and add all these additions to the map via this process - go right ahead.

 

[Northstar1989]

When you open the map with notepad++ each tile is listed. It is there that changes are made. Its not an easy process and is somewhat time consuming, so putting vacancies just down to a 'lack of knowledge' or whatever isn't really the full story.

If you want to go and add all these additions to the map via this process - go right ahead.

So I can't just make the edits with WorldBuilder?

I'd need to find the tile coordinates with the Chipolte "cheat" to use the Notepad++ method, right? I'd probably need to keep one copy of the map open in WorldBuilder (to see where I'm editing, and get the coords) and another in Notepad++ to make the actual edits then?

How would I redistribute the modified version, as well as my justifications for the changes? The whole point is that I'd like to contribute and see the improvements be made a part of the C2C release, not just on my own personal version of the map... Would just posting the updated file (and explanations) on this thread, like I've seen some other people do, be likely to get it included in the next release?

 

[Faustmouse]

So I can't just make the edits with WorldBuilder?

I'd need to find the tile coordinates with the Chipolte "cheat" to use the Notepad++ method, right? I'd probably need to keep one copy of the map open in WorldBuilder (to see where I'm editing, and get the coords) and another in Notepad++ to make the actual edits then?

How would I redistribute the modified version, as well as my justifications for the changes? The whole point is that I'd like to contribute and see the improvements be made a part of the C2C release, not just on my own personal version of the map... Would just posting the updated file (and explanations) on this thread, like I've seen some other people do, be likely to get it included in the next release?

If you just want to add Forests, Caves and such, the WB is just fine.
SO plans to release the next version tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Uploading to the SVN (so it would be in the next version) take about 5min at max, you just need to PM Hydro or DH or someone else with SVN access (I'll be away from this evening to tomorrow evening) and ask them if they upload it.

 

[RidetheSpiral23]

If you are going to use the worldbuilder to edit stuff, which might be better if you plan to edit a lot, you need to "clean" the map when you are done.

Guide here...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=491406

 

[Northstar1989]

If you are going to use the worldbuilder to edit stuff, which might be better if you plan to edit a lot, you need to "clean" the map when you are done.

Guide here...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=491406

That should be important- thanks for the link! I'll have to spend a little time making sure I've figured out how to use the WB Cleaner properly, and actually making the changes I spoke of on a fresh GEM Map (and then cleaning it afterwards) and collecting links showing the research for the changes...

I'll post a list of the changes, and the rationale and research for each here, if everyone doesn't mind. That should work, right?


So I just PM Hydro or DH or somebody with the updated map file- or do I somehow use them to get permission to upload the file to SVN myself? (I've never uploaded to SVN before, so really not sure how to do it)

 

[Northstar1989]

By the way, a bit of a teaser...

I plan to add in most/all of the caves discussed in this link. Where conflicting/overlapping resources exist, I'll either move the resource, or add the cave at the closest appropriate location: http://www.touropia.com/prehistoric-cave-paintings/

I figure if the location was historically home to enough of a human presence that it acquired cave paintings we still visit and study today, then it must have been a habitable enough cave to be useful for the "Cave Dwelling" and "Cave Painting" specials/buildings in the beginning of the game- which can be a big boon to an early civilization's start.

An odd note though- Caves in a city's vicinity later enable the "Spelunking Caves" building in the Modern Era. This seems a bit odd, considering that caves which are good for spelunking (steep, deep, thrilling/moderately dangerous and often narrow) wouldn't have been good caves for human habitation (shallow, open, relatively well-ventilated, safe) and the other way around. Of course, given the limited space on the map, I can understand the logic in not having a "Habitable Caves" feature that shows up in the Prehistoric Era, and a "Spelunking Caves" feature that shows up in the Modern Era- it just wouldn't be worth it for only one (relatively unimportant) Modern Era building...

Still, I'm going to try and stick to representing *habitable* caves with my edit, so don't be surprised if you don't see any modern-day spelunking cave sites added, even though these caves are often much larger/more extensive... Here are examples of some caves that I *WON'T* be adding- as they are less important (from a historical perspective), in my opinion: http://www.touropia.com/famous-underground-caves-in-the-world/

 

[Faustmouse]

So I just PM Hydro or DH or somebody with the updated map file- or do I somehow use them to get permission to upload the file to SVN myself? (I've never uploaded to SVN before, so really not sure how to do it)

I don't think the map will make it to the next Version, so you can just upload your map here. If it is good, it will be definitly in V34. And I'm afraid you won't get permission to upload to the SVN too soon.

 

[Northstar1989]

I don't think the map will make it to the next Version, so you can just upload your map here. If it is good, it will be definitly in V34. And I'm afraid you won't get permission to upload to the SVN too soon.

Certainly, but I do need to get the changes up somehow...

I've been a bit slow getting all the map-cleaning stuff figured out because I've been pretty busy with real life (school is starting back up here), but I'll try and get this last thing done (adding the caves to the GEM) before I throw in the towel on C2C for at least the first month or two of the school year (if I can keep myself away from it that long...)

 

[Northstar1989]

It is DONE!

Additions to this Edit of GEM (no-preset version) :

- 10 new Caves features, in locations as historically/geographically accurate as possible

- 5 new Forest feature tiles (to replace/balance Forest features that were deleted by the addition of the Caves features- placed in nearby/ historically-forested where possible tiles).

- 1 new Camel bonus

(See my change notes file- when reading up on the Tardat Acacus Cave Paintings, the high importance of the native Camel herds to the locals in this area was emphasized- as it appears repeatedly on the cave wall artwork- yet the surrounding tiles lack a Camel bonus resource, the nearest one being quite a distance to the North. Seeing as this area was a *lush* Savanna climate, complete with Elephants, Giraffes, and Zebras; up until about 8000 BC- at which point it began to dry out into the desert it is today- it should at least better balance and make this particular area slightly more realistic by giving it a Camel bonus from 50000 BC).


Attached to this post you can find:

- The edited Gigantic Earth Map

- My change notes, in a .txt file (the change notes were generated in Wordpad, and originally had more formatting, but the Forum forced me to upload them as a .txt, as a .rtf wasn't considered "valid"...)

 

[DRJ]

Thank you very much for what you did!

I think most people would like to play the "precolumbian" GEM version, not the one with no presets... so can one just copy& paste the precolumbian starting civs code into the new "no preset" GEM or is it harder to achieve? Will try this now...

Ok I copied the whole "Begin Team" to "End Player" part of the old precolumbian map into the new GEM and hope it works, didnt test it yet but here it is.

 

[strategyonly]

It is DONE!It is DONE!

Additions to this Edit of GEM (no-preset version) :

Thank you very much for what you did!

Ok I copied the whole "Begin Team" to "End Player" part of the old precolumbian map into the new GEM and hope it works, didnt test it yet but here it is.

Thx for PMing me Northstar, otherwise i would have NOT known it was done, thx. . . SO

 

[raxo2222]

I checked GEM - No preset in C2C V32.
I was checking for missing resources.

Map lacks these resources: (in bracket there is tech, that reveals it. IDK if quantonium meant to be extraterrestrial resource...)
Guava (Gathering)
Parrots (Scavening)
Turquoise (Barter)

So I placed guava and parrots in tropics and turquoise across the world.

 

[DRJ]

If you edited the last SVNs version, you might have missed the cave edit that was done
by Northstar lately. When I looked into the folder I realized that the precolumbian map edit that was done by me and had his changes included was part of the new SVN whereas his original edit for the no-presets GEM which you edited now, too, wasn't

(check out the dates on my screenshot)


When testing my edited precolumbian version of Northstars caves-added no-preset GEM, I understood that the starting location of Scythian tribe and Hunnic tribe were wrong - so I switched them.

The Sythians, living in todays Ucraine were under pressure from the Huns coming from the east. Not directly, I guess, as the Huns put pressure to the Bulgars and Alans and other nomadic people we haven't included in GEM first - who then drove out the Scythians - but definitely more accurate now.


edit:

If we do edit the GEM (versions) we should, in my opinion, always edit the precolumbian version, as this version shows the best if the addition of new resources is still balanced, according to all the civs starting places etc. I am all for historical accuracy but a bit of compromise regarding the balancing isn't too far off, I think...

If you want the changes to work for the no preset GEM as well, just copy paste the "Begin Team" -> "End Player" part of an older "no preset GEM" into the newly edited precolumbian version.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Quantonium (Nanomining)

It is a space resource and thus is not suppose to be available on Earth maps.

 

[DRJ]

As long as we don't have multimaps with GEM, maybe we could simulate Quantonium by putting it into Antarctica ("a comet with particles of it on board crashed there") and cover it with a lot of ice around it? There is a later tech/unit that can clear ice, right?

 

[raxo2222]

It is a space resource and thus is not suppose to be available on Earth maps.

I was thinking so, as it had very late tech for discovery

If you edited the last SVNs version, you might have missed the cave edit that was done
by Northstar lately. When I looked into the folder I realized that the precolumbian map edit that was done by me and had his changes included was part of the new SVN whereas his original edit for the no-presets GEM which you edited now, too, wasn't

(check out the dates on my screenshot)



When testing my edited precolumbian version of Northstars caves-added no-preset GEM, I understood that the starting location of Scythian tribe and Hunnic tribe were wrong - so I switched them.

The Sythians, living in todays Ucraine were under pressure from the Huns coming from the east. Not directly, I guess, as the Huns put pressure to the Bulgars and Alans and other nomadic people we haven't included in GEM first - who then drove out the Scythians - but definitely more accurate now.


edit:

If we do edit the GEM (versions) we should, in my opinion, always edit the precolumbian version, as this version shows the best if the addition of new resources is still balanced, according to all the civs starting places etc. I am all for historical accuracy but a bit of compromise regarding the balancing isn't too far off, I think...

If you want the changes to work for the no preset GEM as well, just copy paste the "Begin Team" -> "End Player" part of an older "no preset GEM" into the newly edited precolumbian version.

Well... I checked map with notepad... and no parrots, guava and turquoise found

EDIT:
Here is my edited GEM map based on GEM no preset from V32.
I added guavas, turquoise, and parrots to it.
It has one civilization on each continent:
Northern America - USA
Southern America - Brasil
Europe - Germany
Africa - Egypt
Middle East (well its not continent, but ) - Arabia
Asia - China
and Australia - Australia.

 

[DRJ]

You see, raxo, the problem is that you and Northstar edited the same original v32 map -- instead of you using the already enhanced v32 no preset map he had already posted in this thread for your additional enhancements. Now both have to be merged somehow and I have not really an idea how to do that in notepad.

 

[strategyonly]

You see, raxo, the problem is that you and Northstar edited the same original v32 map -- instead of you using the already enhanced v32 no preset map he had already posted in this thread for your additional enhancements. Now both have to be merged somehow and I have not really an idea how to do that in notepad.

Inform me exactly what you want, and i will take a look.