[TOT] Adding a 2nd world to an existing 1 world scenario in ToT (plus wheres the old editor menu?)

Blake00

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Hey guys,

While I've played my fair share of ToT I've never really done any editing in it (all the scenarios you see me posting about are MGE). However I have been looking at doing a Master of Magic Jr FW Scenario Remaster for ToT. @gapetit has already kindly converted it across to ToT for me and despite not being a MoM fan @Metro Polis has kindly donated some of his time to helping me figure out and break down down the techs and unit allocation setup the Micropose guys used in the original scenario so that I can make some additions and improvements to it and do the remaster (once I've finished my other scenarios for MGE).

One of the biggest reasons I wanted to do this was that ToT will allow us to add the dark mirror world of Myrran to the game as the original scenario really suffered from not having that. However I have no friggin idea how to add a second map into an existing scenario. Is that even possible? Or do I need to create a fresh scenario with 2 maps and then import the old scenario map back into it (for world 1) and then manually (& joyfully lol) bring across the rules file, settings, start positions etc from the old into the new scenario?

We'd also love to increase the factions from 5 to 7 but I'm guessing that's not possible without starting a new one and copying everything across too.


Also extra bonus question.. something else I don't understand about ToT is where is the second cheat "Editor" menu where you can edit all the units and terrains, factions etc? If that's gone then I guess I'll be doing everything in the text files haha. Some of those built in editors were quite time saving though.

eg here it is in MGE
upload_2020-3-15_0-6-12.png


@Knighttime @Civinator
 
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Knighttime

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I have no friggin idea how to add a second map into an existing scenario. Is that even possible? Or do I need to create a fresh scenario with 2 maps and then import the old scenario map back into it (for world 1) and then manually (& joyfully lol) bring across the rules file, settings, start positions etc from the old into the new scenario?
In TOT, an "Original" game only has one map, and I'm pretty sure anything converted from MGE would be marked that way. You might be able to convert an existing saved game to one of the other game types that would permit multiple maps, if you're up for some hex editing. According to Catfish's site, byte 982 is Game Type -- he only lists Original, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy as options, but there is also a fourth game type of Extended. I think any of them other than Original ought to permit multiple maps. But I haven't tested this myself.

We'd also love to increase the factions from 5 to 7 but I'm guessing that's not possible without starting a new one and copying everything across too.
Well, again with huge credit to Catfish, byte 686 is Tribes left in play and would seem like a way to indicate which tribes are active, so apparently it ought to be possible to activate more/all tribes by changing this value.

Hopefully you wouldn't encounter any hard-to-troubleshoot bugs later, by doing these hex edits... I know that Transporter behavior between multiple maps can be pretty tricky to manage, for example. Recreating the scenario from scratch feels to me like the safer way to go, but I can see that it would be a lot more work.

Also extra bonus question.. something else I don't understand about ToT is where is the second cheat "Editor" menu where you can edit all the units and terrains, factions etc? If that's gone then I guess I'll be doing everything in the text files haha. Some of those built in editors were quite time saving though.
AFAIK this menu was removed in TOT and no one has ever managed to bring it back. Some MGE features that were "removed" for TOT were simply disabled, and TheNamelessOne managed to reactivate them in TOTPP, but I've never heard that this was true for these editors. So yes, you'll need to edit text files manually (as well as .bmp images, of course).

Good luck!
 

Blake00

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Yeah from the sound of things we're better off starting a new game/scenario with 2 maps and 7 civs and then bringing things across.

My only concern is if you start a new game in either Extended Original, Scifi, or Fantasy mode then you get the multi maps we need BUT then the game is of course started under their respective rulesets which is probably not good haha. I wonder what happens if we replace the ruleset for extended original with ours and then try to start a new game (eg will that stop the multi map setting from working?). Extended Orig is probably the best choice too as its a 2 map game (the others are all 4 map games).

Many people have made custom multi maps ToT scenarios out there so I'm sure this is child's play to some lol but I'm like arrrgh haha!


Hmm yeah that's what I feared. I looked through ToTPP's tickboxes to see if anything was there about activating the old menu but couldn't find anything so figured I'd ask here just to be sure.
 

Civinator

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My only concern is if you start a new game in either Extended Original, Scifi, or Fantasy mode then you get the multi maps we need BUT then the game is of course started under their respective rulesets which is probably not good

I made my SciFi scenario using the SciFi 'mode' (that can be started as the official Civ 2 ToT Sci Fi Game), two customized maps and a completely new set of Rules and events that is working without any problems. May be you can extract the map of the converted MOMjr scenario as the 'surface map' so you 'only' have to create the 'underworld' map with the same size of the map.
Spoiler :










Edit: Or you can simply start a new game and let the computer generate a random standard map and a random underground map. When remembering well, the automatic generation of a random standard and a random underground map will contain a random location for a portal between the two maps called the Gate of Hel, that can be destroyed. For my SciFi mod that combination was not the appropriate one.



Here you can find some information about creating secondary maps, copied out from the Test of Time Strategy Guide: http://sleague.civfanatics.com/COC/guides/secondary_maps.shtml

Instead of the hint in that guide, that there must be entries for three maps in the rules file, for my SciFi mod with two premade maps, the entry of one secondary map was sufficient.
 

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Blake00

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Oh wow! This is great! Thanks @Civinator ! :)

@Metro Polis did some experiments last night that showed it works but your post gives even more great info for us to use!

I was wondering why you chose scifi when you only needed 2 maps as the scifi has 4.. but judging by your edit comments and that guide you can have unused entries.

Yup my plan is randomly generate some maps and pick my favourite to use and load as the Myrran dark mirror world map, and of course export and then load the original surface map for the main earth like world.

Judging by all those settings for scifi and fantasy maps with special rooms and blobs etc that's not really stuff I wanted to mess with. Both worlds are going to be earth like worlds, nothing weird or special (it's just one is using dark graphics haha).

That's why I'm still thinking Extended Original might still be the best option to use our custom rules and settings with as that generates 2 earth like worlds (Earth and Alpha Centauri). Presumably it won't create that hell gate thing you mentioned either so we can go ahead and place our own teleporters. I plan to have all units be able to use them from the start but I'll have powerful barb guardians blocking them.
 

Civinator

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I was wondering why you chose scifi when you only needed 2 maps as the scifi has 4..

The answer is simple: I used the ToT SciFi game as a base for my mod because I made a SciFi mod. :)

Yup my plan is randomly generate some maps and pick my favourite to use and load as the Myrran dark mirror world map, and of course export and then load the original surface map for the main earth like world.

Yes, you can start such a game with the option 'start on premade maps' (in my screenshot above I changed the option to pre-made universe).

Both worlds are going to be earth like worlds, nothing weird or special (it's just one is using dark graphics).

In that case use the '6' as the first entry in your secondary map menue. You can start the game with two random created earthlike maps or with two premade earthlike maps.

That's why I'm still thinking Extended Original might still be the best option to use our custom rules and settings with as that generates 2 earth like worlds (Earth and Alpha Centauri).

Everyone of the ToT game options will do it (as you can see with my SciFi mod using the SciFi game).

Presumably it won't create that hell gate thing you mentioned either so we can go ahead and place our own teleporters.

This was no typo. The Gates To Hel is an additional portal to move between two maps, that is only created by the game when a standard map and an underground map are in the game. It is not created by connecting two standard maps. Of course additionally you have all other options of Civ 2 ToT for transfering units from one map to the other, from transporters, special buildings in cities (or in my mod planets), units that can move from one map to the other by themselves, units that can create portals from one map to the other and in my space mod some early wormholes that can be achieved by an event, using random tiles with the same coordinates in both maps that are set to water terrain surrounded by only land terrain and a ship inside that tile that can switch between both maps and works as a wormhole, that is available in the early game.





 

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