planetmaker
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 70
as Mr Smith said in a previous post, we need to rework slavery.
Nows the time Mr Smith!
- Thread starter planetmaker
- Start date
Nows the time Mr Smith!
Something I have been trying to figure out how to get working is this.
Within Civ IV you have the Cottage tile improvement, which, over time and if the tile is worked, grows to a Hamlet, then a Village and finally a Town. This improvement can only built within your borders.
In the Final Frontier you have resources in the Asteroid fields that can be exploited, but again, only if they are within your borders. To get them within your borders you must build a Starbase.
Why can't we do the following.
Build an outpost on the Asteroid Tile we want to exploit (mostly because it has a resource we want/need). Upon completion of the outpost it establishes a border around itself claiming the tile for your Civ.
Now comes the complicated part. In order for this to work as I have envisioned, you must have the following.
A connection by trade route between your newly built outpost and a star system you control. In order for the Outpost tile to grow, it must be supplied with food from the closest (or any)star sytem. Provided you can supply the outpost with food for the designated growth period required, the outpost will grow in size and begin generating a little of it's own food. By the time the outpost has grown, over time, to it's maximum possible size the outpost will have become self sufficient. Depending on random events it is possible some of these outposts could even generate a surplus of food which it can add to an overall food bank that supports other outposts enabling them to grow.
Just a thought, Surplus Food Bank, could be a new feature which you could add to by turning on the Do Not Grow for a Star System. It wouldn't need to be micro managed, you could set it up so you get messages when there is less than 10 or 20 food in the Bank so you can replenish it.
Sorry, I'm an ideas man, not a coder/programmer.
I know that at least one part of this can be done as we already have something similar in the B5 Mod. When a ship creates (read builds an improvement) a jump point it claims the tile it is on. Once the unit has jumped away, and provided there are no other ship units present on the tile to maintain the tile and keep the jump point open, it will close and the ownership reverts to normal. This same process could be applied to the mining outpost idea suggested above. But in this case the improvement itself maintains the one tile ownership, no unit is required to maintain it.
I tried to take screen shots but my F12 key is the Print Screen key. Every time I tried to take a screen shot, I opened the civilopedia menu which got its picture taken (see below)
I will upload a/multiple screen shot(s) to demonstrate what I mean as soon as I can.
OK, First image shows I cannot build a mining outpost outside my borders.
Second image shows manually added territory border which enables the building of the mining outpost.
Third image shows the manually added border has disappeared.
Fourth image shows the addition of a Starbase which adds a permanent border around it taking in the resource tiles and once again enabling the building of the mining outpost.
The downside of this strategy is that you loseaccess to an asteroid tile that could be exploited with a mining colony.
I noted you had added standard tile resources in your mod (Food/Hammers/Gold) The Asteroid mining facilities would be able to exploit these, and increase them over time, which then feeds production and gold back to the nearest Star System. You could also bring in a small chance of the asteroid tile becoming exhausted and making the maintenance of a mining facility pointless, at which point one of the following could occur - Abandon the facility, leaving it to become somewhere pirates/barbs could spawn from.
You destroy/pillage the facility at which point it either removes the asteroid tile (same as chopping but with no further benefits).
You pay a one off fee and the Mining Facility becomes a Research Facility which sustains iteslf with food but it's prior production output now becomes Science to boost your research.
I'm keen to hear whether or not any of these ideas/suggestions are possible.
Within Civ IV you have the Cottage tile improvement, which, over time and if the tile is worked, grows to a Hamlet, then a Village and finally a Town. This improvement can only built within your borders.
In the Final Frontier you have resources in the Asteroid fields that can be exploited, but again, only if they are within your borders. To get them within your borders you must build a Starbase.
Why can't we do the following.
Build an outpost on the Asteroid Tile we want to exploit (mostly because it has a resource we want/need). Upon completion of the outpost it establishes a border around itself claiming the tile for your Civ.
Now comes the complicated part. In order for this to work as I have envisioned, you must have the following.
A connection by trade route between your newly built outpost and a star system you control. In order for the Outpost tile to grow, it must be supplied with food from the closest (or any)star sytem. Provided you can supply the outpost with food for the designated growth period required, the outpost will grow in size and begin generating a little of it's own food. By the time the outpost has grown, over time, to it's maximum possible size the outpost will have become self sufficient. Depending on random events it is possible some of these outposts could even generate a surplus of food which it can add to an overall food bank that supports other outposts enabling them to grow.
Just a thought, Surplus Food Bank, could be a new feature which you could add to by turning on the Do Not Grow for a Star System. It wouldn't need to be micro managed, you could set it up so you get messages when there is less than 10 or 20 food in the Bank so you can replenish it.
Sorry, I'm an ideas man, not a coder/programmer.
I know that at least one part of this can be done as we already have something similar in the B5 Mod. When a ship creates (read builds an improvement) a jump point it claims the tile it is on. Once the unit has jumped away, and provided there are no other ship units present on the tile to maintain the tile and keep the jump point open, it will close and the ownership reverts to normal. This same process could be applied to the mining outpost idea suggested above. But in this case the improvement itself maintains the one tile ownership, no unit is required to maintain it.
I tried to take screen shots but my F12 key is the Print Screen key. Every time I tried to take a screen shot, I opened the civilopedia menu which got its picture taken (see below)
I will upload a/multiple screen shot(s) to demonstrate what I mean as soon as I can.
OK, First image shows I cannot build a mining outpost outside my borders.
Second image shows manually added territory border which enables the building of the mining outpost.
Third image shows the manually added border has disappeared.
Fourth image shows the addition of a Starbase which adds a permanent border around it taking in the resource tiles and once again enabling the building of the mining outpost.
The downside of this strategy is that you loseaccess to an asteroid tile that could be exploited with a mining colony.
I noted you had added standard tile resources in your mod (Food/Hammers/Gold) The Asteroid mining facilities would be able to exploit these, and increase them over time, which then feeds production and gold back to the nearest Star System. You could also bring in a small chance of the asteroid tile becoming exhausted and making the maintenance of a mining facility pointless, at which point one of the following could occur - Abandon the facility, leaving it to become somewhere pirates/barbs could spawn from.
You destroy/pillage the facility at which point it either removes the asteroid tile (same as chopping but with no further benefits).
You pay a one off fee and the Mining Facility becomes a Research Facility which sustains iteslf with food but it's prior production output now becomes Science to boost your research.
I'm keen to hear whether or not any of these ideas/suggestions are possible.
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A little update.
I was going through the B5 Mod XML Improvement infos and noticed I have a tag that is not in the modding Wiki.
That tag is <bOutsideBorders>1</bOutsideBorders>.
I believe this is what Premiere Valle added to enabvle the Jump Point mechanism. So, on a hunch I added a 1 to it for the Mining Outpost, loaded up the mod and I was allowed to build the improvement outside the borders. Brilliant, apart from the fact that as it is still outside your borders, the resource doesn't give any benefits. Adding a 1 tile border to it does give you the benefits but the border vanishes between turns.
So, I still need a mechanism that gives the outpost a border upon completion that is recognised by the AI as my territory so it doesn't remove it between turns as it does now.
I was going through the B5 Mod XML Improvement infos and noticed I have a tag that is not in the modding Wiki.
That tag is <bOutsideBorders>1</bOutsideBorders>.
I believe this is what Premiere Valle added to enabvle the Jump Point mechanism. So, on a hunch I added a 1 to it for the Mining Outpost, loaded up the mod and I was allowed to build the improvement outside the borders. Brilliant, apart from the fact that as it is still outside your borders, the resource doesn't give any benefits. Adding a 1 tile border to it does give you the benefits but the border vanishes between turns.
So, I still need a mechanism that gives the outpost a border upon completion that is recognised by the AI as my territory so it doesn't remove it between turns as it does now.
Mr Smith
Prince
Those are called yields and in this case are probably used as triggers for something.
It sounds like something that would increase turn times in AI-heavy games. And making AI able to utilize those features is a lot of effort to implement.
You could make a dummy unit like starbase for what you want, otherwise you might want to import stuff from Influence Driven Warfare (at least I assume what I am familiar with was part of this component).
Should we brainstorm, preferably on Discord? I don't have much in mind, mostly just rebalance and rebranding, but you may want food multipliers around.
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The mention of Starbase had me looking at where the Starbase gets it's border generation from.
In the unitinfos there is a line <iCultureRange>1</iCultureRange> (in the B5 Mod I have this set to 1, 2 and 3). Can this line be replicated in the ImprovementInfos? I don't think it can as it will probably be linked to some other file I cannot access/edit.
If it can be replicated, Job done, it solves my problem.
planetmaker
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 70
Unfortunately I lack the equipment/time/space for discord.
However the changes required for slavery wouldn't have to be great, and to use it as a defense against early pirate rushes it would have to be moved significantly down the tech tree, preferably into an isolation tech e.g. galactic epistemology or even hostile world engineering. Happy for a food multiplier, but this would have to be balanced with a happiness and/or hammer penalty.
Looking at the other government policies utopia is too harsh, given it only gives 1 food, which is just a quarter of the previous benefit. (citizens in my mod need 4 food to sustain them).
Mr Smith
Prince
No, that's why you would need a dummy unit. This stuff is coded in the DLL.
I just meant chatting there, no need to make it realtime, either. I also use Telegram.
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I had answered myself with the same answer in my post.
Already thinking about what I can do to make this a reality. Rather than a dummy unit, make it a valid unit that can be built and will do the job I need it to do.
Thanks Mr Smith.
Aradziem
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2021
- Messages
- 153
Mh are (barely) habitable desert worlds, Md doesn't exist.
About technology and buildings
I think the technologies that this mod adds could be integrated with tech tree in a more interesting way. Some things that are enabled by old final frontier technologies could be spread over the new ones and the new ones could have costs increased to levels comparable with old technologies.
Spoiler example ideas :
About tile yields
I added them, but as of now they do nothing. I thought about making them useful in the way vanilla tiles work and making starbases habitable but that would require population assignment in dll to count population assigned to planets but they may be used differently without modifying or with only small modifications to dll.
About bug reports
I again wrote a bug report that was ignored. I know that it's (probably) because no one looks at bug reports thread. I recommend clicking "watch" button.
planetmaker
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 70
My bad, I renamed Md to Mh and forgot...
Great Idea. I'll move habitation to Electromagnetic fields, and crater mining rig and mining facility to regolith utilisation.
regolith utilisation could be renamed 'Offworld Resource Exploitation'... what do you think?
I'll also move wealth to synthetic composites. I'm thinking that slavery in its current form could be moved to galactic epistemology, so that it is quicker to get to whip out units for early pirate defence... What do you think Mr Smith? It could be the new home for the rebranded cloning/biosynthesis...
As you might have noticed in my last update I put Terraformer in its own folder. Only thing is now there are extra map generation options... which cause the game to crash as they are not designed for FF+. Any ideas how to disable them... the B5 mod has this problem too...
Aradziem
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2021
- Messages
- 153
in Terraformer.ini file
I think that if things these technologies unlock are moved like that, at least a few technologies should also have changed prerequisites so as not to make tech tree too inflexible. Note that there are four/five separate lines in technology spanning through most of isolation era. In my opinion some should be interconnected.
This should solve the problem if you mean that there are mapscripts that aren't made for this mod.
I think that if things these technologies unlock are moved like that, at least a few technologies should also have changed prerequisites so as not to make tech tree too inflexible. Note that there are four/five separate lines in technology spanning through most of isolation era. In my opinion some should be interconnected.
