Aerodome District: Bad Idea, Guys

[Nick31]

I understand the mechanic's intent, but we may need a mod that allows an encampment to be upgraded with a building inside for planes, rather than a whole new District.

Now that we've seen more of this game, we know with a certainty that getting cities super, super big will be tough, and, for example a 20 population city only gets 6 districts (with the caveat that a Civ's Unique District doesn't count against the limit, I don't think, and maybe a few other curveballs). It's a major blow to "something" in your biggest cities if you have devote an entire district just to build a handful of plans. That's a sacrifice of something very important.

If you look at the core districts that you're going to want in your big cities, you have: Campus, Encampment, Commercial Hub, Industrial Zone, Entertainment, Theater Square, Aqueduct, Neighborhood, and depending on strategy, holy Site.

That's 8 core districts, and potentially 9. You're telling me you want your biggest cities to forego something critical just to Store planes, let alone build them? I don't believe it. Unless planes are crazy OP, I'm not building planes unless an encampment improvement is sufficient to allow me to. You only get to store them in the city with an Aerodome, and unless they can reach 10+ tiles, that's basically just a turtle mechanism if you're defending against a swarm.

I think that's going to need a change.

Edit: I should add (as I also do below), that the Airstrip improvement that can be made outside your borders changes my opinion a little bit (Thanks to SilverDawn). I still think Population growth will be a problem to get sufficient so that you won't miss a district you're giving up to build aerodome, but at least airstrip placement beyond borders looks like it could solve the storage problem. So, I add that caveat.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

Neighborhood doesn't count to district limit.

 

[Nightsong]

I disagree. I think the Aerodome as its own district is fine as the Encampment District already forces you to think of what buildings you want in it. Each District can hold three buildings and for the Encampment alone we know that you can build the Armory, Military Academy and then either the Barracks or the Stables. So combining the Encampment and Aerodome into one District will cause more harm than good.

Also, there's been speculation that the Airport was its own district for a good while now. This is just the first time we've seen actual confirmation that it is and what it is called.

 

[isau]

Not every city will need an airport, unless you're going for a specific strategy. I like this a lot. It means to get air coverage you should build aerodomes in locations where air units can protect multiple cities.

 

[hewkii9]

There's a nice symmetry in that land, sea, and air combat all get their own district.

 

[Nightsong]

Also, I should point out that between improvements (farms, quarries, etc), neighborhoods and Districts, it is probably impossible to put every single district in a city considering that one city can only work a set number of tiles immediately around the city-center. So by limiting the land space for a city, you are already being forced to specialize your cities.

 

[Silverdawn]

Neighborhood doesn't count to district limit.

In the livestream today @ 24:05, unique districts, aqueducts/baths and neighborhoods don't count towards the district cap of 1 per 3 pop:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_F7_td7M5s&t=1440

There is also the airstrip improvement which we have yet to see in action:
http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ6_cities.html#improvements

 

[Nick31]

Thanks for the confirmation Silver Dawn. That still leaves Encampment, Campus, Theatre, Commercial, Industrial, and Entertainment. And possibly Holy Site. So unless you're above 18 population, that's still a sacrifice.

The symmetry might be there, but you're honestly telling me that you're going to build a special district in multiple cities for units without sufficient range to attack enemy cities except in specific circumstances rather than continue to pump out ground units and also forego a district for culture/happiness/gold?

You're just going to abstain from an entertainment complex to store some planes? Build over Holy site? Not build a culture district? Build over a Commerical Hub?

Good luck with that. I assure you, when you get deep in a game and you see the enormous opportunity cost associated with building that district, you'll hesitate

 

[ThomasClark]

I don't think you/we understand enough of the game yet to make this call.

First, you can keep up to 2 planes in your city center, and you can build AA guns for defense. There's also the Airstrip improvement that probably keeps a couple of planes.

Second, if you're building an entertainment district (which has a 6 tile regional effect) in every city, you're doing it wrong. Same with the aqueduct. The premise that you have to have 8 districts in every city is not going to work, you will want to specialize.

Third, the encampment is fairly analogous to the Aerodome. You don't need an encampment to produce military units, it just makes it more efficient and worthwhile. I doubt you'll need the district to produce the units, but the district will allow you to forward-deploy your air units like an Encampment will allow you to project into the map a little further.

Fourth, the devs have referenced strategic bombing of districts and also alluded to significantly changed air combat mechanics. It sounds like fighters might be needed this time around and it'll be worth building the district.

 

[Nick31]

I don't think you/we understand enough of the game yet to make this call.

First, you can keep up to 2 planes in your city center, and you can build AA guns for defense. There's also the Airstrip improvement that probably keeps a couple of planes.

Second, if you're building an entertainment district (which has a 6 tile regional effect) in every city, you're doing it wrong. Same with the aqueduct. The premise that you have to have 8 districts in every city is not going to work, you will want to specialize.

Third, the encampment is fairly analogous to the Aerodome. You don't need an encampment to produce military units, it just makes it more efficient and worthwhile. I doubt you'll need the district to produce the units, but the district will allow you to forward-deploy your air units like an Encampment will allow you to project into the map a little further.

Fourth, the devs have referenced strategic bombing of districts and also alluded to significantly changed air combat mechanics. It sounds like fighters might be needed this time around and it'll be worth building the district.

I hope you're correct. Also, where does it say you can store planes in City center? That would be a help.

Personally, I think you're underestimating entertainment. You get happiness bonuses to city yields, and losing that when you're in a war (with war weariness a definite thing) is something you'll miss.

Edit: The outside your borders Airstrip Improvement changes my point a bit, so thanks for reminding me of that, Silverdawn. If you can do those quickly enough, maybe we have some plane utility after all.

 

[isau]

You wouldn't want to put an Encampment in all cities. Just ones producing Military units or where you need an extra ranged attack. So it is with the aerodome. Probably want it mostly for the couple of places you build aircraft. And for tourism, if you go that route.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

So unless you're above 18 population, that's still a sacrifice.

It isn't like you can build an areodome in the medieval era, by the time it becomes available you should be have pretty hefty pop in a couple cities, and for the others it becomes a choice, which is never a bad thing.

 

[leandrombraz]

What I get from interviews is that they expect specialized cities to be a thing so unlike CIv V, where you, for example, build all science buildings in all cities, the idea is that you will have some cities specialized in Science, while other cities you prioritize other stuff. They don't want you to build all districts in all cities, they want you to choose, make some decision. If I want X here I can't have Y.

If I got it right, aside from the adjacency bonus, some districts like the Campus give +2 of its yeld per citizen, this kind of district you might want to prioritize in high population cities. Commercial Hubs, just like in Civ V, you don't always need to go deep into financial buildings, so no need to build one in every city. Faith depend on how much you actually need it, so you don't always need holy sites. The only "yeld districts" you might want to build as much as you can is campus and Theater Square, to advance in both trees.

Encampment you don't need a lot, you can specialize a city with high production to be where you build your units. Aqueduct don't count into the limit, same for unique districts, if your Civ have one. Industrial Zone, Neighborhood and Entertainment is good but not always needed, in the same way you don't always need an hospital in CIv V, a Stadium or a late game production building. If you city have good production, for example. you can skip a Industrial Zone to build an Airdome.


So yeah, I think there will be plenty of space to build an Aerodome. You just don't need to build everything everywhere. What I get from gameplays is that 2 or 3 well placed campus is more than enough Science, same for Culture, Faith and Gold. Everything else is circunstancial and not always needed.

 

[Nick31]

It isn't like you can build an areodome in the medieval era, by the time it becomes available you should be have pretty hefty pop in a couple cities, and for the others it becomes a choice, which is never a bad thing.

On Arioch's page, I see Flight way up by Replaceable parts. So not too early. As for growth. In today's let's play, the cities on Turn 233 and with a "growth civ".... the Human has no city above 18 pop, even with a 20-tech lead.

 

[Nick31]

You just don't need to build everything everywhere. What I get from gameplays is that 2 or 3 well placed campus is more than enough Science, same for Culture, Faith and Gold. Everything else is circunstancial and not always needed.

That's a bizarre statement . More science, more gold, more culture is how you win this game. Along with Industrial Zone, that's 4 automatics. Not even a question. You have to get to population 15 (unless you're civ has a non-counting unique, or you're Germany), before you can even consider something potentially easier to sacrifice.

 

[isau]

That's a bizarre statement . More science, more gold, more culture is how you win this game. Along with Industrial Zone, that's 4 automatics. Not even a question. You have to get to population 15 (unless you're civ has a non-counting unique, or you're Germany), before you can even consider something potentially easier to sacrifice.

Unless someone builds more air units and just bombs you to heck. Build aerodomes if you don't want that to happen.

 

[dturtle1]

Thanks for the confirmation Silver Dawn. That still leaves Encampment, Campus, Theatre, Commercial, Industrial, and Entertainment. And possibly Holy Site. So unless you're above 18 population, that's still a sacrifice.

Anything less than 18 pop is not a proper City You wont need an Encampment in every city either.

 

[Nick31]

Unless someone builds more air units and just bombs you to heck. Build aerodomes if you don't want that to happen.

Or just build a ton of anti-air guns, and attach them to your units. And where are these bombers going to come from? The AI going to be plopping down airbases within range of you? This AI? And if so, you're not going to insta-Dow? Same for a human.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Neighborhoods (and probably Aqueducts) don't count against district limits

Campuses/Holy Sites/Theaters/Commercial Hubs all give flat bonuses directly to your empire so you can build them in small cities (no reason to put them in big cities)

Industry/Entertainment districts give benefits to all the cities in the region(so they don't need to be in a particular city)

The ONLY districts that are important to have in a big city and count against pop limit are
Unit producing districts
-Encampment
-Harbor
-Aerodrome
And the "Victory District"...the Spaceport

(City centers can hold 2 planes, and there are airbases)

 

[leandrombraz]

That's a bizarre statement . More science, more gold, more culture is how you win this game. Along with Industrial Zone, that's 4 automatics. Not even a question. You have to get to population 15 (unless you're have a non-counting unique, or you're Germany), before you can even consider something potentially easier to sacrifice.

You also win this game by staying alive or conquering. Yeah, some matches you can focus on this things, in other matches your campus is getting bombarded. Keep in mind that districts cost is increased as you build more districts, so building an Industrial Zone everywhere might be counter productive, same for the other districts, considering that not every city will have a good spot to build them.