Affinity rework, Culture, improvement and More if Affinity

[DefiantMars]

I don't see how 3 versions of each victory condition is better than just having 6 affinity specific victory conditions. I think it reinforces the mindset that hybrids are just variations of the Cores. I think that mechanics could still be found in the hybrids based on the intersections of their constituent cores. If not, there is still the "unique" attitude of the hybrid that can be used.

I like seeing the discussion, but I don't think that those are different enough. UNLESS we could find some way to break the similarity and make them more than just a flavor change, I think that individual VCs would be simpler.

 

[Galgus]

@DefiantMars

I think your original concept worked well, though I'd ideally like a non-transcendence victory option for Harmony or a change in it's text from a hivemind to planet communication and control or a hivemind.

I am heavily opposed to hiveminds, particularly involuntary ones.

Harmony: Transcendence
Harmony/Purity: Terraforming
Purity: Reclamation
Purity/Supremacy: Promised Land
Supremacy: Virtual Eden
Supremacy/Harmony: Emancipation

They all fit well thematically, and the white cities in the Promised Land victory even look something like P/S Nobility cities, albeit with Purity style shapes.

After using it for awhile, Nobility just doesn't seem to click as well as Mastery. I think the latter would be fine alongside the Master upgrade word.

Further off-topic, I wish Purity cities looked more monumental and stylized.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I don't see how 3 versions of each victory condition is better than just having 6 affinity specific victory conditions. I think it reinforces the mindset that hybrids are just variations of the Cores. I think that mechanics could still be found in the hybrids based on the intersections of their constituent cores. If not, there is still the "unique" attitude of the hybrid that can be used.

I like seeing the discussion, but I don't think that those are different enough. UNLESS we could find some way to break the similarity and make them more than just a flavor change, I think that individual VCs would be simpler.

Well I personally would prefer 3 VCs with different flavors (even if mechanics were identical) to 6 VCs,
Because the 3 VCs could be made more involved mechanically, as opposed to just "science victory" (which contact victory provides already)

Transcendance+Promised Land have a possible tension if there is a terraforming method (which could also be a most of the game long Harmony v. Purity issue)
Emancipation+Promised Land could have tension with influence over Earth (could be a most of the game long Purity v. Supremacy issue, starting as soon as they get the Lasercom sats up)

Emancipation+Transcendance is harder (one cares about Earth the other about Planet..especially since Supremacy 'ignores/isolates itself from the environment' and Harmony 'merges into it' and neither cares for the human form)...
Best I can see is the military aspect of the aliens, if they are made to actually be dangerous late game
Harmony should get some bonus in making them friendly, Purity has a bonus to killing them, Supremacy would suffer (especially if Emancipation truly involved stripping your military (instead of 1 unit per turn through the gate allow as many as you like, just require a massive # of "combat strength-turns" to win, each turn they are there they lose strength, also Resource needing units should lose 1/2 their strength going through, because they aren't getting that resource on Earth)


*I do agree the text on Transcendence should emphasize control/communication/awareness to avoid the hive mind.. hive mind belongs in affinity virtues as One way to max out an affinity.

 

[Azem.Ocram]

Emancipation, Transcendence, and Virtual Utopia Victories (Virtual Eden should be a wonder that helps S and P/S) are all hive minds with Emancipation being violently involuntary, Transcendence always being voluntary to some and involuntary to others but with varying levels of control and freedom depending on who does it (P/H puts humanity in charge to make Planet more Earthlike and friendly to humanity, H puts humanity on equal footing with the native life to bring peace and harmony to Planet, S/H joins everyone under a hive mind in order to eventually conquer the galaxy in Starships). I hate involuntary hive minds and I would put all my efforts into wiping out all evil, heretical Supremacists and Rampants (Voracity sounds weird and I cannot think of any demonym besides 'Vore' which is a rather disgusting fetish regarding cannibalism or something, which also doesn't fit the naming scheme Supremacists, Harmonists, and Purists, while Nobelists and Ascendants still do).

Purity/Harmony requiring terraforming of some sort makes sense and can logically impact (lore-wise) not only evacuation (since fungal and primordial biomes are inhospitable to humans, frigid and arid are uncomfortable to humans, and lush is difficult to manage because most of us live near the coast, plains or grasslands, not the jungle!) but also Transcendance if we have special buildings or improvements that can affect the balance of control (humans, Planet+Aliens, or technology) over the Mind Flower.

Purity/Supremacy deciding whether to evacuate Earth (which makes more sense for them using the victory screen, in-game lore and typical gameplay as a metric) or fix it up makes sense.

Supremacy is all about putting robots in charge, come on, its name refers to Supremacy of technology! Virtual Eden wonder makes it easier to get humans on Planet to accept the Matrix while cybernetically augmented and bioengineered supersoldiers makes the conquest easier.

Supremacy/Harmony is all about strength and power at all costs. They want to rule the galaxy whether they start with controlling their new base or the home of their "weak, pathetic" ancestors. S/H Transcendence traps the whole world in their hive mind with psychic links to biological minds and powerful hacking of technology. There can be no resistance to S/H Transcendence unlike H or H/P Transcendence (because purely technological networks can operate on different "frequencies"). However, destruction and/or manipulation of the bodies of their enemies can also work to further their goals (instead of merely "brainwashing" them, even though mindraping everyone into a hive mind is atrociously evil on a similar level as genocide and conversion).
I will never play as Rampant Supremacy/Harmony and will always try to wipe them out if I play a game with high Purity or low Supremacy. I have never built any S/H hybrid units and I never will. The combination of the 2 ideologies makes sense. High Harmony, moderate Purity, and low supremacy would be what I imagine space-hippies to be. High Supremacy, moderate Purity, and low Harmony would be cyberpunk. Full Harmony would be like the ending of Avatar (Jake Sully living permanently in his Navi Avatar body and dying humans becoming one with Eywah). Full Supremacy is either the Matrix or Terminator or some combination.

 

[Lord Tirian]

I think it reinforces the mindset that hybrids are just variations of the Cores.

That's not a bug, that's a feature.

While the hybrids are distinct they are more complex themes. The core affinities can be summed up in one word: Robots! Humans! Nature! For the hybrids that's much harder conceptually, plus mechanically, they just are hybrids, there are no P/S points or H/P points.

Making them variants with a strong identity is, to me, more elegant, honest and creating a strong link between the mechanics and narrative. On top of that, it means the hybrids feel different mechanically than the cores (in how they get points, how they win). Distinct and different.

If they had their own victories, they'd need to be entirely distinct, have "ascendancy" points and so forth - but then you'd lose the elegant 3-way tensions you naturally get from the current system, not to mention it just "feels" like going to be mechanical bloat. Different but "copy-and-paste".

 

[DefiantMars]

@DefiantMars

I think your original concept worked well, though I'd ideally like a non-transcendence victory option for Harmony or a change in it's text from a hivemind to planet communication and control or a hivemind.

I am heavily opposed to hiveminds, particularly involuntary ones.

Harmony: Transcendence
Harmony/Purity: Terraforming
Purity: Reclamation
Purity/Supremacy: Promised Land
Supremacy: Virtual Eden
Supremacy/Harmony: Emancipation

They all fit well thematically, and the white cities in the Promised Land victory even look something like P/S Nobility cities, albeit with Purity style shapes.

After using it for awhile, Nobility just doesn't seem to click as well as Mastery. I think the latter would be fine alongside the Master upgrade word.

Further off-topic, I wish Purity cities looked more monumental and stylized.

To me it frequently feels like Harmony is portrayed as the "bad guy" or at the very least, highly disinterested in the situations of other humans. I support the shift from global hivemind to communication with a planetary consciousness. Regardless if its this 6 way VC method or the 3-with-3 split. I'd like to see the Transcendence victory be less... horrific. Again, I swear whoever wrote the flavor text for Vanilla BE was a Purist.

I'm not liking it as much either, but I am loathe to use Mastery now due to the duplicity. It would be like calling Harmony - Evolution, Purity - Truth, and Supremacy - Primacy. I wish they had gone with the prefix of "High", it would have made our lives so much simpler. But I will continue investigating potential names.

 

[Galgus]

I'd bet that whoever wrote it was a Supremacist with a strange enthusiasm for authoritarian control, going off of some entries.

I still think Mastery sounds best.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Emancipation, Transcendence, and Virtual Utopia Victories (Virtual Eden should be a wonder that helps S and P/S) are all hive minds with Emancipation being violently involuntary, Transcendence always being voluntary to some and involuntary to others but with varying levels of control and freedom depending on who does it (P/H puts humanity in charge to make Planet more Earthlike and friendly to humanity, H puts humanity on equal footing with the native life to bring peace and harmony to Planet, S/H joins everyone under a hive mind in order to eventually conquer the galaxy in Starships). I hate involuntary hive minds and I would put all my efforts into wiping out all evil, heretical Supremacists and Rampants (Voracity sounds weird and I cannot think of any demonym besides 'Vore' which is a rather disgusting fetish regarding cannibalism or something, which also doesn't fit the naming scheme Supremacists, Harmonists, and Purists, while Nobelists and Ascendants still do).

Emancipation is not a hive mind, the people are uploaded, but not made to share thoughts (also its not involuntary, the military units are to protect people who want to be uploaded..according to the text)

Transcendance doesn't need to be a hive mind (the text could reasonably be changed to make you aware and able to affect the Planet without having to share your inner thoughts with everyone)

Virtual Utopia/Eden wouldn't be a hive mind either, it could even be the most individualized as people could check out from the 'hive reality' we currently share.

Now you Could describe those as hive mind, but you could also describe Promised Land as human trafficking.. and I don't think the way the victory fleshes out would be due to your affinity (PH or PS could go hive mind as easily as HS, and vice versa)


[plugging affinity virtues again, it would be nice to be the single linked hive mind OR virtual uploaded individual realities as Supremacy, and have Either or both-'hive mind linked to multiple virtual realities' be your faction's full expression of Supremacy.]

That way there would be some in game effects of how you did 'it' (uniting humanity into one mind or freeing people from reality)

 

[Galgus]

What exactly Emancipation is is kept rather vague, though the text comes off as propaganda to me.

Transcendance text is quite clearly a hive mind in the text, though it wouldn't be hard to change that.

Agreed that Virtual Utopia would not need to be a hive mind at all.

 

[DefiantMars]

Well I personally would prefer 3 VCs with different flavors (even if mechanics were identical) to 6 VCs,
Because the 3 VCs could be made more involved mechanically, as opposed to just "science victory" (which contact victory provides already)

I'm definitely not saying that there doesn't need to be changes to make the victories mechanically involved. There's too much passivity and waiting and very little player agency. I just thought it would be easier to make 3 more "solutions" with mechanics attached to them with their own narratives would be less work than trying take 3 "solutions" and spin each of them in 3 different directions with mechanics and narrative.

That's not a bug, that's a feature.

While the hybrids are distinct they are more complex themes. The core affinities can be summed up in one word: Robots! Humans! Nature! For the hybrids that's much harder conceptually, plus mechanically, they just are hybrids, there are no P/S points or H/P points.

Making them variants with a strong identity is, to me, more elegant, honest and creating a strong link between the mechanics and narrative. On top of that, it means the hybrids feel different mechanically than the cores (in how they get points, how they win). Distinct and different.

If they had their own victories, they'd need to be entirely distinct, have "ascendancy" points and so forth - but then you'd lose the elegant 3-way tensions you naturally get from the current system, not to mention it just "feels" like going to be mechanical bloat. Different but "copy-and-paste".

I'm not saying no. I'm just saying the differences need to be vastly meaningful in mechanics and narrative as you've mentioned if that is the method that is to be taken.

There are no hybrid xp points but saying they're "just hybrids" devalues their identity. I thought that they were supposed to be the intersection and synthesis of 2 core affinities. So I'm clearly missing something, because I don't see the issue with strengthening their individuality while still keeping the core affinity XP. It requires the way affinity is chosen shift, not the point system itself.

I'm adamant in my belief that the hybrids can stand on equal footing with the cores when it comes to gameplay. I think that if we needed to "commit" to an affinity in the mid-game, that it would promote the hybrids and make them feel more like they have their "own solutions" that they devs insisted the hybrids had. They talked up that point a lot but didn't come through with the delivery.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

What exactly Emancipation is is kept rather vague, though the text comes off as propaganda to me.

Transcendance text is quite clearly a hive mind in the text, though it wouldn't be hard to change that.

Agreed that Virtual Utopia would not need to be a hive mind at all.

I agree it comes off as propaganda, but the bonus of propaganda is it could be true.
So if I like the idea of allowing everyone on Earth to have the choice of a robot body, it works (of course in 150 years some meatbags will be complaining about the "War of Interstellar Aggression")

The other bonus of propaganda is it could be not true so if I feel like playing obliteration of humanity, I can do that. (just like I can imagine I'm importing earthlings into my mass Promised Land Work camps for the glory of my 'utopia')

I'm adamant in my belief that the hybrids can stand on equal footing with the cores when it comes to gameplay. I think that if we needed to "commit" to an affinity in the mid-game, that it would promote the hybrids and make them feel more like they have their "own solutions" that they devs insisted the hybrids had. They talked up that point a lot but didn't come through with the delivery.

I definitely agree with a mid-game commitment, to individualize them (hence my affinity virtues having hybrids as unique)

However, I think victorywise, the hybrids solutions are going to be either
1. derivative of the 3 core victories (use Earth-send stuff there to control it, use Planet-get control of it, use Earth+Planet-bring stuff from there here) OR not sensible as a Victory condition*
2. Dilute them... Promised Land should require Terraforming as that is a key part of Purity..changing the planet. by splitting up those ideas you lose the ability to have them combined into one Better victory condition. (one could make the same argument about Supremacy and Virtual Eden... you need something to upload 10+billion minds into)

*To be sensible as a victory condition the Victory needs to 'conceptually' grant you some big boost in power over the other factions, that the game wouldn't model well without getting silly (space victory, diplo victory, culture victory all work in BNW for that)
in BE you are getting total control of the resources of Earth/Planet or some super tech aliens.
Virtual Eden/Utopia doesn't do that..at best its a Wonder so all your people are happy all the time but they build nothing (maybe their bodies are remotely controlled by AIs to do the work of society)..it doesn't have anything that stops another civ from steamrolling you (even conceptually)

You could possibly add an actual 'spaceship' victory, but I think that's what the contact one is like.

 

[Azem.Ocram]

Sorry, I misunderstood "Hive Mind." P/S Virtual Eden is a voluntary check in or out at any time virtual reality, HOWEVER S Virtual Utopia is the Matrix with the humans used as biological computers (without any limbs, possibly just brains in jars) with their consciousness put in a sophisticated simulation, probably with low-level calculations for the Matrix at times of "maximum thought" and powerful number crunching when sleeping when the consciousness experiences low-bandwidth movies when dreaming, if that). Supremacy Virtual Utopia is a means to strengthen Domination or Emancipation. That is why I backtracked from making it its own victory because virtual reality alone does not give you a winning advantage.

Deep Memory uses Firaxite computers for True Purity purposes. Virtual Eden uses an advancement of that technology to give everyone perfect lives with low consumption and high creativity (enjoyment, education, art, and philosophy happens in the VR, manual labor in spartan conditions happen on Planet) though I imagine P/S cities with Virtual Eden would shift from Crystal Spires [and Togas trope] and iTowers [everything's an iPod in the future trope] to Ascetic Aesthetic with the simulated cities being anything they desire from ultra monumental Purity, to Space-Rome on steroids, to the truly (and impossibly) magnificent.

If happiness is ever added into CivBE, I would give happiness perks to each Affinity with Harmony decreasing unhappiness and its effects, Purity increasing happiness and its effects, and Supremacy equalizing happiness or unhappiness and level 20 Supremacy permanently setting all cities not in revolt to 10 (which would have a productivity bonus but nothing else).

 

[Galgus]

@KrikkitTwo

I don't view victories as a huge power lead - Promised Land and Emancipation would take a long time to pay off, and likely wouldn't justify costs in any timely manner.

Rather, I view them as a monumental accomplishment of some sort.

Also, a society with Virtual Eden could continue to function in the real world by using drone bodies and commanding robots around.

 

[DefiantMars]

I definitely agree with a mid-game commitment, to individualize them (hence my affinity virtues having hybrids as unique)

We need to investigate systems to streamline the Affinity Virtues. Because I like the idea, (and it really does makes me think of the BNW Ideology Tenets) but I'm having a hard time grasping at its integration which to me usually indicates that a system is not entirely intuitive.

in BE you are getting total control of the resources of Earth/Planet or some super tech aliens.
Virtual Eden/Utopia doesn't do that..at best its a Wonder so all your people are happy all the time but they build nothing (maybe their bodies are remotely controlled by AIs to do the work of society)..it doesn't have anything that stops another civ from steamrolling you (even conceptually)

You could possibly add an actual 'spaceship' victory, but I think that's what the contact one is like.

You could combine the Virtual Eden with the Spaceship victory. I've seen it suggested before. Supremacy builds itself an Ark that can autonomously gather resources from planets. Making it a self sustaining platform. Meanwhile it houses an entire virtual/cybernetic society. It represents their detachment from any particular planet and their axiom of freeing themselves from the limits of flesh.

 

[Azem.Ocram]

@KrikkitTwo

I don't view victories as a huge power lead - Promised Land and Emancipation would take a long time to pay off, and likely wouldn't justify costs in any timely manner.

Rather, I view them as a monumental accomplishment of some sort.

Also, a society with Virtual Eden could continue to function in the real world by using drone bodies and commanding robots around.

Sorry for updating my posts while getting responses. Virtual Eden would have high productivity and low consumption because according to the description by Ryika, a perceived lifetime could be experienced in minutes. This means that the physical world would be stressed much less because fun, education, art, innovation, philosophy, etc could be experienced in the virtual world (which would skyrocket culture, research, and happiness) and the residents would gladly work a single shift seemingly once a century of hard work alongside utilitarian robots in spartan living conditions.

EDIT: That time dilation effect could either be tuned down to decrease power consumption or used to make the human brains work as biological computers (like Virtual Utopia Matrix) when dreaming and the people would only be plugged in for the bare minimum it takes to recover from the previous shift to work the next one.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

@KrikkitTwo

I don't view victories as a huge power lead - Promised Land and Emancipation would take a long time to pay off, and likely wouldn't justify costs in any timely manner.

Rather, I view them as a monumental accomplishment of some sort.

Also, a society with Virtual Eden could continue to function in the real world by using drone bodies and commanding robots around.

I doubt they would take that long to pay out, and the point is they would pay out in ways the game can't model well
similar to a space race victory in Civ1-5

Virtual Eden with that description sounds like mid level Mastery.

Really your just looking at a cheap happiness maybe bonus, you still need some type of machine to do the work (even if not human body machines) of production, testing research, etc.

 

[Galgus]

Virtual worlds are a solidly Supremacy thing - I don't think it fits Mastery with it's purity side.

Better to live a true life attended by humaniform AIs, like the nobility of old with the technology of the future.

 

[Azem.Ocram]

All original terms were coined on the fly and subject to change because they sound awkward.

We are all just brainstorming ideas and bouncing ideas off each other.

After reading, discussing, and contemplating, I believe that new victories should not come by themselves but come with a greatly reworked and expanded affinity system.

The victories in the future expansion should be categorized into Time, Domination, Contact, Transcendence, Warp Gate (or Portal to Earth), and Starships.

Time victory remains unchanged, the Domination victory screen changes with method, affinity, and speed/progress (measured by the sum of the points of all players), the Contact victory screen changes based off affinity, speed/progress, number of progenitor artifacts found (or researched), and violence/aggression (you against the aliens, you against the opponent sponsors, and opponent sponsors against the aliens and each other), the Transcendence victory changes based off affinity method/style (standard equal-footing hive mind with Planet, like Gaia in Asimov's Foundation trilogy; P/H human dominated with you as the Hive Queen and other humans having more independence and impact on aliens; S/H hive mind with all brains and computers hooked up into the planetary network with the aim to use the unity to spread and dominate the whole galaxy before Progenitors show up), the Warp Gate victory combines Promised Land and Emancipation into the same category but with the 6 variations mentioned previously, and the new Starship victory would be the hardest without going Supremacy because it requires some of its technologies (and benefits from more Supremacy technologies and a few S/H and P/S) but is still winnable with low Supremacy and moderately high Purity and/or Harmony levels (otherwise Starships the game would be impossible) and is the only victory screen that also has a "FLY YOUR STARSHIP" option (open up Starships). Each victory would then have an achievement and perk for Starships.

Affinity perks should get a menu much like BNW Ideologies. However, there would be 6 Affinity choices which unlock at the Affinity threshold (maybe 7 or 5/5), the trees for each player are unaffected by choices made by their opponents regardless of affinity, the pool of affinity virtues is different for each sponsor (with some overlap and everyone getting weak affinity perks for each level of the 3 affinities), and the Affinity Ideology tree would have 4 tiers (with deeper tiers unlocked with further Affinity level progression) with the top tier getting 7 virtue slots, the 2nd tier getting 5 slots, the 3rd tier getting 3 slots, and the 4th tier getting 2 slots (and these last 2 slots greatly help towards 1 victory condition each or modestly helping towards 2 victories each, depending on choices of earlier affinity virtues). The Affinity Ideology tree would be designed to give each leader more personality and uniqueness by simulating the reaction each leader would have towards the Planet and the affinities regarding it. Each of the 6 Affinity Ideologies for each leader would have 1 of 3 flavors when filled out representing 2 viewpoints of each affinity and the viewpoint of the leader. The first tier affinity virtues would have a wide pool of options representing all combinations of the 2 Affinity-centric viewpoints and the leader-centric viewpoint and you start out with 2 or 3 free affinity virtues when you first unlock Affinity Ideology. The Affinity Ideology of each leader impacts their personality, changing what they respect, what they fear, and what strategy they use to try to win. I think Elodie should get her Unique Trait allow her to earn progress with Affinity Virtues proportionately to her culture output and Lena to get her fully upgraded Unique Trait to earn progress with Affinity Virtues proportionately to her diplomatic capital (with a lower percentage than Elodie's tier 1 since DC is especially abundant for Lena and culture is scarce even for Elodie) both capped at 20 Affinity Virtue Points per turn and only applying AFTER the 3rd Affinity Virtue is unlocked (1st one earned with points).

Affinity Virtue Points are earned from Great Affinity Persons (see Beyond Great People Mod for more info) but with hybrid Affinity Great Persons (turning down 1 Affinity Great Person makes the next one of a different Virtue a hybrid Affinity Great Person but you cannot turn down 2 Affinity Great Persons in a row) and instead of a free Affinity Level (since those are so easy now), give a free Affinity Virtue, and the Great Person Tile Improvement also providing 1 Affinity Virtue Point per turn (and hybrids providing 2 since you turned down the first and also have higher yields than the straight Affinity Great Person Tile Improvements but come with a 2 energy per turn maintenance fee, which shouldn't matter by the time you build them) which remove normal tile improvements and forests but add to the terrain yield (unlike Terrascapes). The Harmonious Preserve should speed up Transcendence if adjacent to the Mind Flower. The "Garden of Ascendance" or "Garden of the Gods" (my working names) would also speed up Transcendence if adjacent to Mind Flower yet be similar to a Terrascape that can coexist with miasma, give +1 Health (let's call this a "Fountain of Youth" effect like a Xenomass Bath House using Ascendant Tech and not Old Earth Tech), and add to the terrain yield; it can also help improve refugees from Old Earth if adjacent to the Ascendant Gene Clinic (or whatever you want to call it) or Warp Gate. RoButler Stores would help P/S tremendously in the mid game and even help Reclamation (place next to Warp Gate) or Promised Land refugees (place next to Warp Gate or Earthling refugee welcome center). S/H would have a lab/factory that makes Experimental Hellions (spawns them less frequently than the Harmonious Preserve spawns domesticated/leashed aliens) and speeds up Transcendence if adjacent to the Mind Flower. Experimental Hellions would look just like normal Hellions with slightly weaker Stregnth (42) with the ability being a weaker average between the two choices of a normal Hellion (which I don't know) but with the ability to fire with full Ranged Strength (30) regardless of HP at adjacent units in addition to the ability to melee attack.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

We need to investigate systems to streamline the Affinity Virtues. Because I like the idea, (and it really does makes me think of the BNW Ideology Tenets) but I'm having a hard time grasping at its integration which to me usually indicates that a system is not entirely intuitive.

I'd do it Almost Identical to the BNW ideology

Affinity Virtues are 'bought' exactly like other virtues and buying them increases the cost of other virtues. There would be a tab to the right of the Virtue screen.

Each Affinity would have 4 Virtues for each of 3 levels (getting a Virtue at level 2 or 3 requires that you have the specific prerequisite virtue at the lower level..so it is more like 4 groups of 3 that level up)
However, each affinity would only allow 2 Virtues at the 3rd level (for level 1 & 2 we might allow 3 or 4)
example: Supremacy has the four options
-"one mind"
-"mind editing"
-"virtual environment"
-"robot bodies..for the whole population"
You pick can level all the way up to 3 in 2 of those, (and each has hopefully big gameplay effects.. see Affinity Virtue Ideas)


When you first become able to get an affinity virtue, and 'choose' that affinity you would get a prompt to do so, (you could put it off because you want to get a different one)

To "choose" an affinity,
Core: must be 5+, must not have any other core affinity higher
Hybrid: must be 4.4+ the "other Core" must not be higher than the Hybrid level

Level 1 virtues require 5 or 4.4
Level 2 virtues require 10 or 7.7
Level 3 virtues require 15 or 10.10 (any one of these is required to open up the affinity victory options)

Each Virtue you picked would give you a % boost to that type of affinity xp

You could change (like BNW Ideologies)... but you would experience 'anarchy' = (number of affinity virtues)squared/4 and lose the virtues (but your virtue cost would drop by the number of virtues lost)

and only from one affinity to the 'neighbor' if you want to go Mastery to Harmony you would have to go through 3 'revolutions'