AG Civics Mod Development

[LateNiteAdvisor]

I love it! Keep up the good work! I'm not happy with the basic options available in civics and feel this is a necessary mod.

 

[andz]

hmm i wonder where's the author

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

hmm i wonder where's the author

Working on my new, more popular, European Mod project ...

 

[andz]

wah add updates to this

 

[TheFourGuardian]

Hmm, I'm going to study the work done here and on another mod and try to make something akin to both.

I like the premise of more more more in this game.

There is just not enough variety in these civics.

 

[JDexter]

wah add updates to this

I second that motion! I really want something like this, but it needs a workover before I can use it in a good game!

 

[LateNiteAdvisor]

Hmm, I'm going to study the work done here and on another mod and try to make something akin to both.

I like the premise of more more more in this game.

There is just not enough variety in these civics.

Are you talking about the one that adds a 5th and 6th civic? If so, I'm REALLY looking forward to your mod. Send me a PM if you need beta testers. I'll be happy to test it. I too think the civics need a lot more work.

 

[TheFourGuardian]

Er, I'm just starting work on this one. I'm hoping to combine these ideas to make I believe eight sets of civics with ten of each.


Currently I have:

Government
Labor
Economics
Culture
Military
Legal(?) It's the system of how the nation works(i.e. empire, nation state, internationalist, Isolationist(doesn't exactly fit, but it's the best I have.)
Social
Religion

I have ten ideas for each but religion so far. Then I'll set what they should have and then I have to actually code it and change the windows.

 

[LateNiteAdvisor]

Er, I'm just starting work on this one. I'm hoping to combine these ideas to make I believe eight sets of civics with ten of each.


Currently I have:

Government
Labor
Economics
Culture
Military
Legal(?) It's the system of how the nation works(i.e. empire, nation state, internationalist, Isolationist(doesn't exactly fit, but it's the best I have.)
Social
Religion

I have ten ideas for each but religion so far. Then I'll set what they should have and then I have to actually code it and change the windows.

I really liked the health care civic in that one mod. I know it's mostly for modern civs, but it was a fun idea.

 

[maxpublic]

You say you're going for an historical approach, but I noticed a couple of inconsistencies:

- under Economy, you've somehow elevated socialism as a 'higher' form of commerce than capitalism. That's a bit backwards, to say the least. Socialism is government interference in the economy and there's a direct correlation between government interference and the economic efficiency of the state. The more interference, the worse the economy runs. The 'payoff' (and I use that term loosely) would be in things like universal health care (+'s to health) and the redistribution of wealth to keep the proles happy (+'s to happy faces - bread and circuses).

But any which way you slice it, no economic system is ever going to be as efficient or as productive as capitalism. People don't adopt other economic systems (e.g., regulated capitalism, mixed economy, welfare state) because they're better than capitalism but because they have benefits that the unwashed masses want.

- You've done the same thing with the radical Greenie stuff. By any measure a 'green' economy (and that term is almost Orwellian in nature) is going to do major damage to the efficiency of the market. Huge damage. Greenies don't give a damn about the human cost of anything and wouldn't hesitate to cause widespread suffering and misery (*human* suffering and misery, that is) in order to achieve their goals. A 'green' economic is going to be a bloody disaster in comparison to just about anything else you have on the list. If you're going to give them huge health bonuses they need an equally huge commerce and productivity hit to balance that.

Or you could just remove it. A real greenie economy would require a fascist police state and central planning anyway, which are reflected elsewhere.

Max

 

[kolpo]

"Government
Labor
Economics
Culture
Military
Legal(?) It's the system of how the nation works(i.e. empire, nation state, internationalist, Isolationist(doesn't exactly fit, but it's the best I have.)
Social
Religion"

"Legal" could you maybe call "Organization", types of organization could be:
-barbaric villages: like the gauls
-steppe nation:like the mongols
-nationhood: France, germany.
-Colonial empire: Victorian England. Very little distance of capital maintenance
-Empire: Like Rome.
-city states
-feudal(nobles control the provinces and you control them)
-federation(like the USA),
-confederation: what the EU could become in the future, it is very hard to make decisions in a confederal state but I don't know how to reflect this. Though culture output could be high because regions/states can keep there own culture.

 

[TheFourGuardian]

I actually just finished all of the types, and many were similar to :

-barbaric villages: like the gauls

I used Barbarism. I might switch to tribes.

-steppe nation:like the mongols

I used city states, such as the greeks. Higher cultural output and perhaps a few free units.


-nationhood: France, germany.

Cultural Bloc- Hard to explain. A small area united by a form of culture. Perhaps early India? No upkeep, perhaps lower maitance from capital.



-Colonial empire: Victorian England. Very little distance of capital maintenance

I have this, but in order I'm using Empire. Probably have increased military power and increased production on towns.


-Empire: Like Rome

Regional Civlizations, such as the entire Muslim world in the middle ages. More matience from capital(since you don't really control anything) higher culture(you engulf a larger area,) Low upkeep.

-city states

Er, I have these, but in order I have nation states. That's nationhood, but with lower trade routs, and a higher amount for the draft.

-feudal(nobles control the provinces and you control them)

Organized Alliance: NATO, Warsaw, European Union, etc. Probably increased free units and trade routes.

-federation(like the USA),

Yep, exact same. Increased culture, medium upkeep, less free units.

-confederation: what the EU could become in the future, it is very hard to make decisions in a confederal state but I don't know how to reflect this. Though culture output could be high because regions/states can keep there own culture.

Internationalism. Also very similar, except I was thinking more on a UN world governing body type scale. I'd reflect it in lower cultural values, high cost, but much higher trade routs, commerece, and research(ideas spread faster.) Higher war weariness though.



Oh, and I put colonial empire in, but forgot to read it, .

 

[Tabris]

EDIT: Ops, didn't notice there were two more pages. Sorry

 

[andz]

lol yeah im hoping this is gonna get updated

 

[JDexter]

@maxpublic:
You wrote a lot of crap there
1. Capitalism may be the most money efficient system for the upper class (managers etc), but it certainly doesn't have to be the most over-all efficient system. You never know what there will be beyond your experience and/or imagination or lifetime.
2. A green economy will be the ONLY one that will allow mankind to continue a luxurious lifestyle (for the nations that have it now and starting for others too). It is everything but desasterous - it's the only way to reduce desasters and to banish the danger of new ones (weren't there enough hurricanes in the US this year? Not that it would be the proper punishment for an energy politic like that country has had since the industrial revolution - but it's sad for the people and has caused billions of damage). Things like that hurt the world wide economy much more every year as investing in a safe, clean and "green" future. Doing so even creates a lot of jobs, like the solar industry does or hybrid cars etc.

Get those conservative minds moving.

 

[maxpublic]

1. Capitalism may be the most money efficient system for the upper class (managers etc), but it certainly doesn't have to be the most over-all efficient system. You never know what there will be beyond your experience and/or imagination or lifetime.

Which is entirely irrelevent. Your sci-fi fantasy doesn't exist and isn't worth consideration until it does.

Right now, capitalism is the most efficient economic system ever devised by human beings; no economist would dispute that. The only dispute is whether or not unbridled capitalism is worth what is commonly called 'the human cost', which is why capitalism is often mixed with various degrees of welfare. People are willing to accept lower economic efficiency in return for other things, like, as I pointed out, universal health care, or social security, or any number of other things used to justify government interference in the economy.

2. A green economy will be the ONLY one that will allow mankind to continue a luxurious lifestyle (for the nations that have it now and starting for others too).

Spare me the drivel. A 'green' economy REQUIRES enormous sacrifice in order for it to be implemented. The more green the economy, the higher the human cost. That's Economics 101, which you apparently skipped in pursuit of your higher education.

It is everything but desasterous - it's the only way to reduce desasters and to banish the danger of new ones (weren't there enough hurricanes in the US this year?

Ah, another rabid environmentalist. Technology is, like, eeeevill, dude! It, like, causes hurricanes and stuff! I'm sure that if we just all got down on our knees and worshipped the Earth Mother she'd stop tossing hurricanes our way.

Not that it would be the proper punishment for an energy politic like that country has had since the industrial revolution - but it's sad for the people and has caused billions of damage). Things like that hurt the world wide economy much more every year

Riiight. Point to one empirical study, published in an accredited peer-reviewed scientific journal supporting your claims. That's a SCIENTIC journal, not "I Prostrate Myself Before Gaia" weekly.

as investing in a safe, clean and "green" future. Doing so even creates a lot of jobs, like the solar industry does or hybrid cars etc.

You mean that same solar industry which, when producing solar power cells, generates more toxic waste products than all the nuclear power plants on Earth combined do every year? Or those hybrid cars which actually cost more than a gallon of oil to produce the equivalent gallon in energy? Oh, but it's okay if the hybrids are badly inefficient so long as the fumes are coming out of a coal or oil plant rather than your car, eh? If YOU can't see them then the problem must be solved!

There's a reason why environmentalist groups are losing more and more support every year, and it has nothing to do with ignorance nor some X-Files-like conspiracy. It's because so-called environmentalists often don't have the first clue what the hell they're talking about, and that's starting to become painfully apparent even to Joe and Jane Public. Even your own leaders - the people who founded the environmental movement back in the '60's - are saying that the lot of you are a pack of fools, and disavowing the movement in favor of more rational alternatives. Or have you missed the news on that as well?

Max

 

[MrUnderhill]

Which is entirely irrelevent. Your sci-fi fantasy doesn't exist and isn't worth consideration until it does.

I don't recall him saying anything remotely sci-fi; he was simply stating that capitalism has a predisposition to corruption, making it a little less efficient than you're making it out to be.
Look before you bash.

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

Sugjestion for the Original Mod, change name of Military Dictatorship to "Junta", its nice short sweet and in common usage.

 

[Bezhukov]

"I believe Capitalism should increase pollution or even unhappiness."

The historical evidence is it unleashed (develops?) powers which leads to extremes of both (healthiness and unhealthiness, happiness and unhappiness). The worst pollution of the last century was produced by emphatically non-capitalist societies, so industrialism itself is the clearer corollary there.

 

[Bezhukov]

Environmentalism, and to a lesser extent, socialism, has the convenient side-effect of significantly lessening the opportunities for social mobility engndered by free enterprise, hence its appeal to those already on the top of the heap, and the understandable frustration of those like max.