AG8 - Let's try Sid

Normally I would think about a skip now, but that would be rather strange in this situation. Ted, could you please finish your turns?

PS. Despite the fact that I like to see a write up soon I wouldn't like you to rush the ten turns...
 
I am going to wait one more day, but TedJackson is long overdue. The thing is that when I take it I wouldn't go to war and we wouldn't get a rep hit. Nice as that would be I don't like the sound of it and that's why I waited for Ted :(
 
I think if Ted is skipped we should (IMO) stick as close as possible to what he did.

Has he been PM'd to see where he is?
 
Good luck :). You only have to trash our rep and capture 4 cities in 2 turns :p.
 
I think it more likely that he would have declared war on turn 1. The IHT can have units moved and such. In fact I wouldn't handicap yourself in declaring war provided it was done by turn 2 (we know he was at war that turn). The result would be "close enough"

I would also play the attack your own way and not try to match the city list exactly. Just go on the offensive and see what you can do. The results will not differ in any meaningful way I feel.

I guess I am saying the only real requirement is to declare war by turn two to stay "in sync" with Ted's play; we don't have sufficient detail to stay in sync in any meaningful way beyond this one point

Do the rest of you agree with me? Any detail I missed?

[Edit: Requirement - Attempt to take cities (not a passive war)]

[edit: Thinking on it more I think if you declare war in the IHT (and units have been already moved) you may very well find it impossible to take 4 cities as you are giving India the first move.
 
Greebly, I see what I can do. I don't know if it matters whether I declare in the IHT or in turn 1 / 2. I can move in the troops in the IHT if I want and place them two tiles from cities... I will certainly fight my own war, but I have info that India is not very strong. I can't 'forget' that. I don't know if the knowledge will be crucial. I will go for an all out attack anyway.
 
lurker's comment:

As long as you don't get a special advantage out of this knowledge (e.g. taking more cities than Ted did during his turns) you can't go wrong. If you really do better and could be take more cities, stop till you sync with Ted IMO. Good luck you all!

[relurk]
 
Question... I've have found the Romans. They don't know Sumeria, just like the Inca and the Persians. So I can trade gpt. I am able to make a 3-fer with those three civs:

- 60 gpt for Poly, Currency and Construction, or
- 100 gpt for Republic, Currency and Construction.

We are in the GA and make 105 gpt. Should I make a deal? If yes, which one? I'm leaning towards the first, because we still have 18 turns to go in the GA and we will discover Republic ourselves in 30 turns... The 2nd is one we can't afford once we are out of the GA. Also: we are probably able to get Republic from the Indians (they won't speak yet though...).

PS. I was able to do almost exactly the same as TedJackson, as far as I could guess from his posts. I'm going to continue the war until we at least have ToA.
 
If the first deal gets us into the middle ages then take that, because we might be able to broker the middle age techs (esp if Persia, scientific, does not know the other civs!). We aren't going to revolt in our GA so republic can wait.
 
IHT: I declare war on the Indians.

Siege of Punjab:
-Vet MW vs reg spear: cat takes HP, 3-0; spear killed. We are in a Golden Age
-Vet MW vs reg spear: 0-3, MW retreats
-Vet MW vs reg spear: 3-1, spear killed. We take Punjab and capture a cat

Our GA and attack on India asks for a few changes in our empire, most notable: Salamanca, Akwesanse, Niagara Falls, Centralia switched to settlers, Oil Springs switched to granary.

IT: Vet MDI from India kills a Mounted Warrior outside Bengal. Salamanca, Centralia, Akwesanse: settler->MW, Niagara Falls: settler->settler.

Turn 1 (130 BC)

Siege of Lahore:
-Vet MW vs reg spear: archer takes HP, 3-0; spear killed, MW promotes
-Vet MW vs reg spear: 3-1, spear killed, MW promotes
-Vet MW vs reg spear: 2-4, MW killed
-Vet MW vs reg archer: 3-1, archer killed
-Vet MW vs 1 HP reg spear: 1-1, spear killed, we take Lahore

Siege of Kolhapur:
-Vet MW vs elite spear: longbow takes 1 HP, 5-1; spear killed
-Vet MW vs reg spear: 3-0; spear killed
-Vet MW vs reg spear: 3-1; spear killed
-Vet MW vs reg longbow: 3-0; longbow killed. We take Kolhapur.

Siege of Punjab:
-Vet MW vs reg pike: cat takes one HP, 1-3; MW retreats
-Vet MW vs 2 HP reg pike: 1-4; MW killed, pike promotes
-Vet MW vs reg spear: 2-4; MW killed
-Vet MW vs 2 HP vet pike: 2-1; pike killed
-Vet MW vs 1 HP reg spear: 1-0; spear killed. We take Bengal.

Just outside Punjab:
-Vet MW vs 2 HP reg MDI on hill: 2-1; MDI killed.

Luxury can go to 10%. We now make 102 gpt.

IT: I see Sumerians fight with Indians close to Ganges. Portugal lands an archer next to Hyderabad. Two MDI's and an archer make MW's retreat. Allegheny, St. Regis: MW->MW, Gandasetaigon: cat->cat.

Turn 2 (110 BC)

Siege of Karachi:
-Vet MW vs reg pike: cat takes a HP, 0-2; MW retreats
-Vet MW vs reg pike: 0-3; MW retreats
-Vet MW vs reg pike: 3-1; pike killed
-Vet MW vs reg spear: 3-0; spear killed
-Just north of Karachi: Vet MW vs reg MDI: 3-0; MDI killed (it blocked the way to Karachi for the rest of our troops)
-Vet MW vs reg spear: 1-4; MW killed
-Vet MW vs 2 HP reg spear: 1-4; MW killed, spear promotes
-Vet MW vs 2 HP vet spear: 1-4; MW killed, spear promotes :cry:
-Vet MW vs 2 HP elite spear: 2-2; spear killed. We take Karachi with our last MW there :hammer: .

Bengal and Punjab only have an aquaduct, which I can't sell. Bengal and Punjab are abandoned.

Close to Chittagong a vet MW kills a reg MDI on a hill, losing 2 HP. 7 MW's approach Chittagong, to take it next turn. 5 MW's approach Indus.

Our galley meets Rome. I establish an embassy for 93 gold:

AG8-romeembassy.JPG


Rome is at war with Persia and is in the Ancient Age. They don't know Sumeria.

IT: No counterattack from India, but they do approach Lahore with three weak units. Salamanca, Cattaraugus: MW->MW, Kahnawake: spear->spear, Grand River: Foreign Palace->barracks, Gayagaahe: cat->cat.

Turn 3 (90 BC)

Siege of Chittachong:
-Vet MW vs reg pike: archer takes a HP, 1-2; MW retreats
-Vet MW vs reg spear: 0-4; MW killed
-Vet MW vs reg spear: 3-1; spear killed
-Vet MW vs 2 HP reg pike: 2-3; pike killed
-Vet MW vs reg archer: 3-1; archer killed and we take Chittachong.

Siege of Indus:
-Vet MW vs reg pike; cat misses, 1-4, MW killed, pike promotes
-4 HP elite MW vs 3 HP vet pike: cat takes a HP, 1-2; MW retreats
-4 HP elite MW vs 2 HP vet pike: archer takes a HP, 3-2; pike killed, we get a leader Shenandoah. [dance]
-3 HP vet MW vs reg spear: 3-2; spear killed
-3 HP vet MW vs reg archer: 3-1; archer killed and we take Indus. I immediately create a MW army from the leader

Outside Chittagong two MW's are needed to kill a MDI. The first is killed, the second takes no scratch.

I am now going to regroup for my attack on Bombay and after that their iron city Madras. I abandon silk city Karachi and therefore luxury has to go up to 20%. I dreaded the flip risk, which would slow our progress in war.

IT: India attacks a MW with an archer. The archer is killed. Chondote: cat->cat, Caughnawaga: barracks->MW. The Inca tribe takes Sidon, the Persians are hurting!

Turn 4 (70 BC) Goigouen founded, starts with barracks. 9 MW's are planted 2 tiles N of Bombay.

I decide to trade with the Incans, Persians and Romans. They all don't know Sumeria and therefore don't know about our dealings with them.
-I buy Polytheism from the Incans for 41 gpt.
-I buy Currency from the Romans for Polytheism and 19 gpt.
-I buy Construction from the Persians for Polytheism and 570 gold. I am not prepared to pay gpt, because they are probably as good as dead.

Hmmm, a bit more than I predicted, but still we are in the Middle Ages now...

IT: An Indian MDI kills a MW from the SoD. Incans and Persians sign peace. Salamanca, St. Regis: MW->market. Niagara Falls: settler->MW, Allegheny: MW->market, Oil Springs: Granary->MW, Gewauga: cat->settler. Sumeria captured Madras for India. India is as good as dead...

Turn 5 (50 BC)

MW kills MDI north of Bombay, losing a HP.

Siege of Bombay:
-vet MW vs reg pike: 2-4, MW killed, pike promotes
-vet MW vs reg pike: 3-3, pike killed
-vet MW vs reg pike: 2-4, MW killed
-vet MW vs reg pike: 2-4, pike promotes
-vet MW vs reg pike: 0-3, MW retreats
-vet MW vs reg pike: 1-3, MW retreats

With 3 MW's left and more than 3 defenders in Bombay the siege is postponed. More MW's are ordered to help, a.o. the army.

Karachi is abandoned and replaced by Kawauka.

IT: Cattaraugus: MW->market, Mauch Chunk: barracks->MW, Kahnawake: spear->courthouse.

Turn 6 (30 BC)

Siege of Bombay, part 2:
-vet MW vs vet pike: 1-3, MW retreats
-3 HP vet MW vs reg pike: 3-0, pike killed
-3 HP vet MW vs reg pike: 3-2, pike killed
-3 HP vet MW vs reg pike: 0-2, MW retreats
-3 HP vet MW vs reg pike: 2-3, MW killed, pike promotes.

Again I decide to postpone further attacks. The army can reach the city, but only attack once. This is not enough to take the city. Next turn it will surely fall!

Kente is founded. We now have silks in our borders. Luxury to 10%. Centralia is switched to courthouse, because poor MM-ing left one shield needed for a MW :o Tonwanda switched from galley to courthouse for the same reason. I also don't see the need for a galley anymore... Mauch Chunck switched to courthouse. Akwesasne switched to harbor.

IT: Oil Springs: MW->MW, Grand River: barracks->market. Portugal starts Sistine.

Turn 7 (10 BC)

Siege of Bombay, part 3:
-9 HP MW army vs vet piket: 4-5; pike killed
-Vet MW vs vet pike: 1-3; MW retreats
-Vet MW vs 3 HP vet pike: 3-1; pike killed
-Vet MW vs vet spear: 4-2; spear killed
-Vet MW vs vet spear: 2-4; MW killed
-Vet MW vs 2 HP vet spear: 2-3; spear killed. We take Bombay and own the Hanging Gardens and ToA.. I want to keep this city at all costs!! [party]

Luxury tax goes to 0%. :love:

IT: We get the Heroic Epic message.

Turn 8 (10 AD) 7 MW's arrive east of Ganges. Nothing much else to do...

IT: Portugal and India sign peace. Oil Springs: MW->market, Caughnawaga: MW->courthouse, Gandasetaugon: cat->worker, Gayaage: cat->courthouse.

Turn 9 (30 AD) India lost Hyderabad to Sumeria. Kiohero founded, starts with spear.

Vet MW kills a reg Longbow outside of Ganges. It takes three MW's to kill two spears in Ganges (one MW retreats). We take Ganges. I believe that India is now 4CC. I move a SoD with the army east of Delhi.

IT: I see a MDI and a spear leave Dehli :hmm: Dehli's strongest defense is a spear. Niagara Falls: MW->market.

Turn 10 (50 AD)

Siege of Dehli:
-Vet MW vs reg spear: cat takes 1 HP, 0-3; MW killed, spear promoted
-Vet MW vs vet spear: 4-2; spear killed
-Vet MW vs vet spear: 4-1; spear killed
-Vet MW vs vet spear: 4-0; spear killed. We take Dehli.

NOTES:
We are in the Golden Age and make 107 gpt. Despite the fact that we don't have a marketplace and about 60 gpt paying to the AI. India refuses to give us a tech straight for peace!! I vote for crippling them even further. My aim was to reduce them to one city and then demand everything we can. The theory of a small India between us and Sumeria is far fetched: Sumeria is taking them apart as well.

I have two settlers wandering. I haven't really looked for the best spots. I left the cities from India almost unprotected. I planned to recapture them if they would flip. Bombay seems like a keeper. We should at least try to keep it for 4 more turns, because our borders will expand (from all cities with nine tiles at the moment!!).

There are certainly tech deals possible. But the prices are awesome.
 
Great work Aggie! :thumbsup:

We are the most powerful civilization on the planet? :hammer:

In 50AD? :D

At SID? :eek:

Sheesh, this is going too well so far, I half-expect the whole deck of cards to come tumbling down any second. I'm going to be playing % Take On The World tonight, so this will most likely be played tomorrow, so plenty of time for discussion. What do we do now? Hammer India until they have just one city and then take everything for peace?

Also, medium-term, what do we do? Shall we begin an infra push or go for an early military victory? We could use alliances to take on the civs on our continent one at a time. If the Great Library should be built on our continent that will be even better, as we can concentrate on the bottom branch of the middle age tech tree, and when the time comes and we need to catch up in tech we could try for a capture of TGL city.

Am I dreaming or expecting too much?
 
Nad, I'm sure you find enough to improve and adjust after my turns. I tried to focus on every part of the game, but it wasn't always easy. I was sometimes distracted by the war and our success there. Luckily you love MM-ing :D

Regarding our future, I think it would be a good idea to go after the Byzantines. We don't have a long border with them, as opposed to the Sumerians. We also like to see the Sumerians longer in the game, because as long as they have enemies we can trade.

Otoh: I already started infra improvments in our lands, because we didn't need more MW's. We have 34 of them now. It would be good to build a lot of markets, aquaducts and courthouses in our GA.

PS. We may be the most powerful according to the histograph, but after Persia and India we have the weakest army.

The Great Library is owned by Portugal, on the other continent.

EDIT: It would be great to get Feudalism, but we probably have to settle for Engineering or Monotheism. But offer trade options...
 
A request for Annares: mate, you're the expert on flips and calculators. Can we work out flip chances for our ex-Indian cities, especially Bombay? I will likely try to replace all the ex-Indian cities except Bombay, but I would like to know if it is feasible to keep them and how much garrison we'd need to stop a flip.
 
I am in favor of an early military victory for the somewhat silly reason of getting a really huge score for the Hall of Fame :D

I think we are big enough that we should be able to stay on the war path especially if we ally. I would vote to continue the way we are going and hit the Byzantines with Sumeria's help. Then finally turn on Sumeria; and continue for a conquest victory. If we fall too far behind in tech we could consider the GLib. It looks like we might be able to get across.

As for bombay, I say starve it to size 1 - take the final indian citizen and [edit: after we grow back to size 2 or more we] turn him into an entertainer/scientist and the build a worker. Last time I tried this the citizen chosen was the entertainer/scientist. If this works again, it could be a way to get any city to a ZERO chance of flipping as there are no foreigners left.
 
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