Age of Discovery PBEM

Muzbang if it's not to much could you write something about this game, many read this long after the game is finished
Thanks good game
Eclipse

Ps attack me!!! I like to fight
 
Oh, I forgot my battle report (although it seems a little academic now...).

Machu Picchu captured, destroying a pikeman and spearman in the process. Longbowman lurking in the mountains also destroyed. No loss of Portuguese units.
 
Victory point reached, 2 treasures have been created in cities from where i was able to bring them back to capital.


i think that eclipse will have the victory screen.

For screenshots and summary of that game, i will do it a bit later.
I have all save files, i will have to work to tell you the story from my point of view,

in short words, i think that the 20-30 first turn were the more important.
with massive worker/units production
Diplomcy was also really decisive...

But i will tell it with more details
 
See that's the price you pay for dog piling poor old Spain for little reason. France gets a massive head-start and wins. :lol:

Well played and good game, for the short time I was in it anyway.
 
Congratulations on an excellent performance, muzbang! :goodjob:

I am sure your own notes will later reveil some interesting details on how you were able to win this game so quickly. For now I would just like to add a few comments on the key moments of the game as they appeared from my point of view (as a "watcher from the distance"):

First of all you played the diplomatic side very well, making good use of the opportunity that Hawklord's early attack on Portugal presented to you: of course Portugal was practically forced to join an alliance, as otherwise the more powerful Spain (which additionally had just started its Golden Age) would threaten to knock it out completely. And after that, England practically had to join the alliance as well, otherwise it would be in danger of being left behind, if Portugal and France shared the Spanish possessions between them...
By making this diplomatic alliance, you a) ensured the prerequisites of capturing a large empire and b) at the same time secured that empire against a possible later attack from England & Portugal. And what I like especially is that even after you had obtained your dominant position, you remained true to your peaceful disposition and never attacked your peaceful neighbors! Something like this is greatly honorable. :thumbsup:
Lesson to be learned for Spain is, I guess: Spain needs to play carefully, simply because it is probably the most powerful start position, so the other nations are very afraid of getting pushed over and will form a dogpile at the first sign of Spanish aggression. Best option would probably have been to sign Eclipse's "No War in Europe" treaty and then try to increase the already quite good position overseas.

The next key factor in muzbang's play was the concentrated military action to secure the lion's share of Spanish possessions, especially the precious Cuban collonies.

And finally what astonishes me the most, is the fact that you managed to do both things at the same time: build up a strong military and at the same time expand very fast in Canada. Usually in most games the resources allow only the one or the other, but not both. I assume that the very powerful unit of the Colonist played a key role here? If setting up a town correctly, it can during Golden Age practically produce one Colonist per turn without ever loosing population! (I tried to use this unit myself, but for some reason the Aztecs cannot build it, even after I had the necessary tech?! :confused:)

As to my own position (the Aztecs): at the end of the game I had accumulated 1800 culture points. If I had sacrificed the slaves that I currently possess, I would have gotten a bit over 2000. So this is only 50% of the necessary points. And this despite the fact that I had good luck with several points in this game:
  • My prebuild secured the first Temple of the Moon
  • I had completed an early aqueduct, which enabled me to get the second Temple of the Sun. Only the third Temple I had to concede to the AI, which I think cannot be avoided anyway, because the Mayan "prebuild" remained intact through the entire cascade from the first Temple. (And also the Emperor AI gets a hefty 20% discount.)
  • I never got attacked, so could concentrate all resources into the capital, bringing it to size 12 asap. No need for diverting shields into military protection. Here a big thank-you in this regard goes to England for the early protection in a phase, where I was practically without defense!
  • When the Netherlands were nearly extinguished I was lucky to find a Netherlands Longbow that I could kill with two Jaguars. So I was able to start my Golden Age at a very convenient time without having to risk a dangerous war. The GA brought me a fast second Temple of the Sun, a Cathedral, a University and a Collosseum. (And then a Sugar Plantation, a Bank and a couple of muskets.)

So I think there is absolutely no way I could have gained the missing 2000 culture points by this point of time. In my opinion the only slight chances of winning are, if the 4 European nations ballance each other all the time and keep destroying each other's colonies without one of them becoming a super-power. But there's no way a meso-american nation can influence this, so it can only watch from the distance and "hope". And even if none of the European nations runs away with the game, the chances for a culture victory are very slim, because a lot of victory points can be gained by research. (I assume a significant part of muzbang's points come from research?!) So it may be too slow in any case.

After muzbang also eliminated the Netherlands quickly, England, Portugal and Aztecia formed a "trade alliance" trying to catch up to France in a peaceful way. The plan was that the Aztecs would try and produce treasures quickly and sell them to the Europeans for workers. However, even that plan came too late, because I made a big mistake earlier: I had stopped researching/tech trading, shortly before I got Invention. I thouhgt I had to avoid Invention, because that tech would give me Longbows, which would replace the Quetzal Bowman. My plan however had been to use a large Quetzal force to conquer Mayaland and generate a lot of slaves that way. (The Longbow no longer has the ability of enslavement.) But it turned out that long before I had a sufficient number of Quetzals, the Mayas had already been eliminated by Portugal and France... :lol: So I could as well have continued research and started my treasure production some 20 turns earlier...

But anyway, even if this is such a completely unbalanced scenario, it was a lot of fun playing it. I think a lot of what we learned here, can be put to good use in the Pirates!Yarr game, once that'll get off the ground.

A big thank-you to Hawklord, Eclipse, TomBxx and muzbang for the fair-play and for the interesting twists and strategies we have seen here!

Eclipse or muzbang: can you sent me the final .savs? I will try to make a couple of "finish screenshots" and post them here.

Lanzelot
 
in a word, northem america has been quickly colonized thanx to :
- ship bridges : colonist, worker and units move to america in 1 turn,
- cities position : look my great lakes cities... i was able to go from Brest to central america in 1 turn. This helps a lot.

On other point, how i manage to colonize and conquer in the same time...
I think it's thanks to my very early strategy.
producing workers (i will developp), then irrigate a lot (that mean, was able to produce more worker without decreasing population). I produced worker in cities without aqueduc (and alternate worker / units.... trebuchet and caracks in cities without baracks, and mediev inf and moosket in capital and lyon).

I will give you more next week, i will have time to do so...

but, at start, i was really worried by eclipse that had slowed my ships,
so i've been late in america to settle in the key tile (a hill that permite to go faster in the great lakes)... I lost some time there.

In other way, diplo has permite to have 2 science very early, as i make deal with england and portugal... they have given me each a science before i was able to pay !!!

Because my start was really bad in the scientific way.... units cost a lot in the begining !!!



But, i won't tell you more if i want to make a full story...
 
Here's my synopsis.

My original strategy was to colonise Africa and South America with a view to establishing a conveyer belt of riches from the colonies to Lisbon. Thus taking advantage of my location in South West Europe and the Island cities.

To support this I was keen to keep the peace in Europe and be ready to defend myself if needed. I started in a golden age and invested hugely in science with a view to obtaining gunpowder and building a number of musketeers that would provide a deterrent. I invested what little productive capacity I had in combat units and the Sistine Chapel. Looking back, investing so much in the wonder wasn't wise, the rationale was to ensure my culture was strong versus the Spanish so I didn't lose valuable, productive land. This was probably my first mistake.

I was growing concerned by Spain's reluctance to agree to a 'peace in Europe' treaty (Lanzelot - I suggested this by email, Eclipse and Muzbang were ok to sign, Hawklord wasn't) and posting of a screenshot highlighting Spain's military superiority over Portugal.

This led to the event that effectively ended any decent chances of me winning. Spain destroyed one of my colonies and stole a worker in Europe. Lisbon and Porto were sitting ducks when faced with any number of conquistidors so I paid England and France to join an alliance against the Spanish. Muzbang quickly signed up, he clearly had a lot of units that were ready to invade the Netherlands that could quickly be assigned to Spain. Eclipse also signed up in the hope of getting a share of Spanish land. In the end France really took advantage of this situation. It made me stronger and the extra prodcutive land near Lisbon helped, but France then became the superpower. The skirmishes with Spain cost me quite a lot, a few combat units, my colony in South America and a Carrack full of units.

Once Spain were eliminated my only real option was to trade and develop my colonies. The combination of former Spanish and Portuguese Islands provided a nice supply chain to and from the colonies. I was reluctant to try and form an alliance against France for three reasons:

1. We had a peace agreement in place for another 20 turns or so.
2. I had a very productive trading arrangement and good relationship, after all, France saved me from being invaded from Spain.
3. France were so powerful, that even an alliance of England, Portugal and the Aztecs probably wouldn't be enough.

As Lanzelot mentions, this is when England, the Aztecs and Portugal signed a mutual protection pact and traded extensively.

There was another key point that really made it impossible for a Portugal victory. I was one turn away from completing the Magellan's Voyage which would have really helped my supply chain and restricted France and England to very slow shipping in comparison. France completed this wonder and the valuable shields were wasted.

Also, I didn't use naval bridges until far too late :mad:

It was my first PBEM, and I enjoyed it. Thanks to you all for the game and your patience at times with my clunky use of the trading screen :crazyeye:

Congratulations Muzbang on a very good win :bowdown:

And I look forward to meeting Lanzelot and Hawklord in the CDG1!
 
Thank you for the invitation to play here, strangly enough I had never noticed this scenario in the folder which is odd because i play mostly scenarios.

Anyway bad decisions on what to build in this scenario and what improvements build in England proved to stagnate what little momentium I had in the beggining. My first strategy above all things was to build a super navy as this is normally assumed but indesition got the best of me here thinking I needed to expand into America, preferably the N.E. colonial region but found France had the same idea. Having neglecked the naval strategy and not building the best possible settler and/or worker city in England prevented me from achieving a strategy of any kind and felt viewing the (scores) I realized I couldn't compete.

At this point a slow expansion with a graduale build up of units was the next best thing, enough to protect myself but not so many to attract attention. At this point the idea of "The Treaty of AoD" a "No War in Europe" treaty was tossed around, this became the best strategy I could come up with for what I currently had to work with. At this point I was the weakest nation in Europe and would allow some time to iron out a new strategy regardless of how far I was behind. at least not giving up on the game. I was fortuneate enough to meet the Aztec leader(Lanzelot) very early and thought because we would eventually expand towards each other a good relationship should be attempted. As was the ship building plan, I was somewhat going for a historical concept and thought that the Aztec and England could work out a rather unique strategy. I would focus on building a few more units and offer the Aztecs protection from any who might oppose him and for that a group of workers to connect my cities and a few improments to increase my momentium, this worked wonderfully!!

But Spain attacks Portugal. This would have been a great war at this point of the game but Spain attacks a worker in Europe and a grand scale chaos begins!!!

Portugal is defended by this agreed treaty of AoD and France and England joins together with Portugal to attack Spain for this act. England being in a slow expansion mode in the colonies didn't have his ships and units all the the same areas so again I stop what I'm doing a change direction and get as many ships loaded in England and the Colonies that I had available. The agreement at this point was That I would land in Spain and fight their but had nothing but Pikeman nearby so I sent my fleet to the colonies to pick up my strongest units. By the time I got them borded and nearly there Spain was decimated. Now heading South with this small contingent of ships the speed of war had increased by leaps and bounds by Portugal and then France. France had at this point, the right kind of units in the right areas and was able to do large scale attacks and doing major damge to Spain. England was no longer needed so turned my attention on the Dutch but having made the great journey South with my most powerful units it was agreed that I would turn my attention on the Dutch. But as again I had only pikeman and a weak tech, so a single Carrack shuttled what few available units I could muster in England to gain a beachhead there while the rest of my units were enroute. A small skirmish between Dutch and English Pikes proved that a war of attrition was the first and best strategy while I trained and shuttled more troops, so pillaging the Netherlands began, Not able to attack my units the Dutch just stood thier and watch while I beat up the fona (LoL). France at this point pressed England to rise to the challenge or get out of the way so I politely reboard my tiny ships and left for America.

Arriving in America once again I was shocked to find that France simultaiously expanded into the Great Lakes and west and South as well. This strategic placement of his cities effectively capped off Englands western expansion.

Spain now destroyed, England was sure she was next, the manor of Frances cities in the Colonies would surely develope at a quick pace due to his major expansion everywhere so Diplomacy between England and France increased but England being such a backwards nation in comparison could only have ears and then realized that France truly only honored that treaty and its device and meant no harm to England so what little area I was spared to develope became England and Aztec focus.

A frenzy of ideas took place to narrow the gap of Victory points France had over everyone include the trade of worker nationaalities but France came up with this idea as well. I can only imagine that at this point the worlds first treasures were created then because the Atlantic was buzzing with French Ships, seemingly 5 to 1 to England's Fleet. I send an email to France(Muzbang) telling him I was amazed at his achievements, his reply was short and simple "he wasted no sheilds" and I can believe that!!! France Gifts Edinburg to England even know England doesn't meet the required agreement. Later a race to settle Florida was thawted by France but again gifts it to England. The rest of the game was an attempt to transport my first and only produced treasure which never left its city.

I actually had fun watching Muzbang win the game.
Great game to all
Eclipse
 
Just to put the record straight. I never posted a screen-shot showing how much stronger Spain was than Portugal.

I was under the impression that we had decided not to sign the no war in Europe as it was not necessary.

I was almost at the last source of saltpetre in south America that I could access when Portugal settled next to it. I needed that to defend myself otherwise my troops and navy would be slaughtered, as it turned out this was true, my pikes were no match for French troops and died too easily. All the other powers had it so I was a sitting duck. As I thought we had not agreed to a no war in Europe policy I feared Portuguese muskets invading Spain, so I wanted to cut off the saltpetre in Portugal.

However, you all dog-piled me. Giving France the chance to develop a major production base using Spanish cities and paid for it in the end.

Still it was fun while it lasted.

Thanks for the game
 
Just to put the record straight. I never posted a screen-shot showing how much stronger Spain was than Portugal.

Yes, you're right, I apologise. I had mistaken Eclipse's post for yours (post 165).

Saltpetre could have easily been traded in exchange and we could have lived together peacefully......
 
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