AI amphibious "tactics"

[insurgent]

One of the most interesting AI stupidities is their inability to use even a slightly intelligent pattern of naval tactics.
It does not organise its ships in fleets, and it doesn't protect its carriers or transports.
When it makes an amphibious assault, it is always with one, unprotected, and often half-empty transport.

Has anyone ever seen an intentional fleet group, a protected carrier, or transport, or even a more organised landing?

The enclosed image is from my latest game, where I'm playing as the Japanese and the yellow are Spanish (to make things worse, the transport has just ended its turn)...

 

[Sodak]

Originally posted by insurgent
Has anyone ever seen an intentional fleet group, a protected carrier, or transport, or even a more organised landing?

No.

Once in a great while coincidence will bring several AI ships together - staggered starting cities, different path to same city target - but it's chance. I've seen large fleets (25+ AI ships) on just a few tiles, but that was only because the goto command didn't know to take them around the continent instead of thru it. The easy solution for such a stack:

As for your attached picture, that transport usually has only one or two units on it.

 

[starlifter]

I've seen the AI stack navlal units, but it does not make complex naval strategy. The Ai strategy reminds me of Adolf Hitler's naval startegy. No, this is not a superfluous Nazi comment, but rather very reflective of Hitler's naval priority and Doenitz' naval strategy..... send one (or maybe two) ships out at a time, with inadequate suport, and hope for the best while hunting everything they happento find while randomly steaming around.

Graf Spee, Bismark, several South Atlantic & Indian Ocean raiders. Nothing coordinated, in general. But enough to cause the opponent to have to spend lots of effort to conter the threat.

 

[Ace]

The nearest thing I have seen to the AI using naval "strategy" is a wolfpack of 3-4 subs attacking a vet battleship. And, even then, I don't think it was a "plan", just several subs heading for the same target. Other than that, I agree with SL's comparison to the Kreigsmarine strategy. lots of individual ironclads or cruisers roaming around by themselves.

As to the AI using a carrier, I have been playing civ, civnet, and civ II since the original civ hit the stores, and I have yet to see an AI carrier!!! If he builds them, it must be extremely rare.

:tank:

 

[Peregrine]

The Civ2 AI will NOT build any units in the Carrier slot. No Carriers will ever be built, nor will any unit created in the context of a scenario in that slot be constructed by the AI.

 

[funxus]

They should've put an extra role in the rules.txt. The two possible roles would be naval superiority or sea transport. It is set to naval superiority, which is not the right way to use it. It should understand the combination of sea transport and can carry airunits. I can understand that it is pretty hard to program AI strategy, but these parts of the AI shouldn't be that hard to program

 

[MajorGeneral2]

Historically, a nation with naval superiority rarely, if ever, loses a war. Especially if they're on different land masses. Does this mean that the AI would be near-invincible if it had a clue how to run a decent Navy? Probably not. It would make it harder to beat, though. Just another one for the "AI Stupidities" list. And what a long list that is!

 

[Marlos]

There are very few instances of a coordinated naval strategy that I've seen the AI execute.

Once, several marines (about 5 or 6) came out of a transport and attacked a coastal city that I had neglected to build a coastal fortress in. My troops held on, barely, until I could reinforce the city and eliminate the transport so future incursions could not occur.

Another time, several cruisers and destroyers unsuccessfully ganged up on a veteran battleship that I had parked outside one of the AI's largest cities. Sometimes it seems that the AI will take on a battleship, even if it is a poor matchup, to get the intruder out of the way.

However, an 'AI stupidity' that I have seen quite often is their continual attack against a city that has a coastal fortress! Listen, if I attack (and haven't done the proper reconnaisance) and find the city defended by a coastal fortress, I stop and find another way. Not the AI! I've seen entire navies dashed by a well-defended town with a coastal fortress!

 

[Zedd]

In a current game the japanese have created a series of islands that produce nothing but ships. Thier cities are defended with cavalry and partisans while each city supports at least two naval units, mostly destroyers. The AI send 15 destroyers and two battle ships at my little fleet of 5 subs 1 battleship and 6 destroyers and nearly wiped them out! I still have the battleship which took out about six japanese units and i have a destroyer but other than that its transports. I was surprised becouse this stoped most of my plans for counter attack.

Next turn they attacked any nearby coastal city of mine (coastal fortresses) and lost many units but managed to take out quite a few of mine as well. I was qite impressed.

Next turn they let three of my transports with howitzers and armor just sail by and now i own 2/3 of the japanese territory


BTW this is on emperor level.

 

[starlifter]

Wow, Zedd... that sounds like about the best AI naval attack I've read anyone describe! I do wish the AI would not continue to pound it's ships against the coastal fortress cities, though. Supposedly, the early versions of Civ 2 had an even more pronounced effect of AI attacking coastal fortresses ...

 

[Ace]

Originally posted by starlifter
Wow, Zedd... that sounds like about the best AI naval attack I've read anyone describe! I do wish the AI would not continue to pound it's ships against the coastal fortress cities, though. Supposedly, the early versions of Civ 2 had an even more pronounced effect of AI attacking coastal fortresses ...

It did. Once the AI hit a coastal city, you could just build a coastal fortress asap, and watch the AI throw away his ships. He would pick one city and keep banging away at it while completely ignoring the cities on each side of the target city. The effect is not as pronounced in MGE but its still there.

 

[Zedd]

Same game played last night and the soix sent not 1,2,or 3 but count 'em 6 air units (helicopters and fighters) to death at the hands of my new AEGIS cruiser. and then attacked my battleip with a caravel! :die:

the japanese have stoped attacking with thier ships and will ignore my transport (loaded with marines and howies) two spaces away to futilly attack a size 21 city with coastal fortress

just when you think the AI will supprise you with a fight...........+


edit: I have been reprimanded many times for my spelling so I apologize, My fingers are moving too fast for my feeble mind to decipher the correct spelling.

 

[starlifter]

and then attacked my battleip with a caravel

And the Caravel won, right?? Those sailors on Caravels are pretty resourceful against BBs, so I hear tell, LOL....

My fingers are moving too fast

Fire flew from his fanatical fingertips....

PS, Mine too!

 

[gatomarado]

The best i've seen in AI naval strategy was lot's of BB, destroyers, AEGIS cruisers attacking again and again a coastal city with some Mech Inf, and coastal fortress, on an isolated island.
I didn't have to be worried with them because the AI always lost against the mech's.

The only naval AI strategy that exists in CIV2 is the "The more I have, the best navy i'll be" strategy.

BTW, as anyone played the ww2 scn in the pacific as the french (one isolated island only at the beggining). You can see that the AI don't use their carriers and, when they see a single ship, the AI move all their ships against it. This is fun when you have a Vet BB and they have lots of destroyers!!!

 

[Blitz79]

God this gets me down. How difficult can it be to program a bunch of dots to stick together and act as a unit? We need to WRITE an AI program and invite people to do it...

 

[knightblk]

Originally posted by starlifter
Supposedly, the early versions of Civ 2 had an even more pronounced effect of AI attacking coastal fortresses ...

That is true, i have Classic and have seen over 20 AI Ships (cruisers, destroyers, Aegis Cruisers, and battle ships), be defeated by a coastal fortess and a tank/mech inf(can't exactly remember)

Also new proposal instead of having AI stand for artificial inteligence lets have it stand for Artificial Idiot!

 

[knightblk]

also in my last game the Japaneese insisted on land Howitzers and other units onto my small five city continent in one spot, they didn't stand a chance against my IDF (Internal Defence Force) of tanks, which wiped them all out in one attack (3 howitzers, 3 dragoons)

 

[GenShwartzCough]

I can certainly attest to the suicidal coastal fortress attacks. But I have noticed that the AI is very adept at sending bombers and cruise missles to sink battleships. I am still new enough that the AI does get to develop those units and uses them effectively.

 

[starlifter]

You can search by my name and those keywords. In summary, the AI knows with 100% accuracy where all your ships are at all times. No hiding, even in black (undiscovered) AI territory. Further, the AI does not fly any missiles to any target. The missile simply "appears" at the target.... no ground track, even in undiscovered territory. What's more... any AI missile produced in any city can, will, and does instantly appear in any city for imediate launching... including nukes. A missile may be made half a world away, but the instant it is produced, it can be launched from any city. If it is not immediately launched, it stays put.

 

[GenShwartzCough]

Hmmmm......sounds like an excellent reason NOT to let the fargin bastages get that far in tech.