AI - Insane?

[Wolfbeckett]

So I recently moved up to Prince difficulty. Help me understand this. Both Arabia and Spain keep declaring war on me. I mean seriously I've been at war with Spain probably half a dozen times and Arabia more like 15-20 times. I'm going for a cultural victory so I don't attack back, I only defend. Each and every time, I kick their ass. Hell, half the time they pay me to make peace before either of us even fires a single shot. Then 2 turns later, they asking me for a declaration of friendship (which I refuse of course, I've never ever had a DoF actually help me instead of the opposite). So, are these AI's completely mad, or what? What the hell is their deal? Why declare war, only to pay me hundreds of gold for peace before even attacking me? Why ask for DoF's 2 turns later? What is going on here?

 

[Soryn Arkayn]

The AI is irrational and stupid, but not "insane".

The Leaders personality chart is very insightful regarding how the AI works. Chances are that if a formerly friendly civ suddenly denounces you or declares war on you, it's because you irked one of their personality traits.

The reason why this might seem like a shock to you is that Prince is "Normal" difficulty, meaning that you don't receive bonuses anymore. The AI cheats to some degree, but they don't receive the bonuses like on the harder difficulty levels. Now that you're playing on Prince the training wheels have been taken off and you're experiencing the real Civ5.

The most important thing to remember is that if you have a weak military, the AI will declare war on you. Sometimes you'll receive a warning in the form of a message mocking your weak military. That means that you had better produce units quickly because the next time you'll hear from that civ will be a DoW. It doesn't matter that human players can easily defeat the AI's superior numbers -- that's not something the AI factors into the equation. It's purely numbers -- even if your units are one or two levels more advanced, it won't matter.

So even if you're going for a Culture Vic, you should produce a military strong enough to dissuade the other civs from DoWing you. Ideally you want to achieve a balance wherein you're strong enough to keep them peaceful and friendly without intimidating them into Guarded, which makes Luxury trades and RAs nearly impossible. It's a narrow line to walk and the cost of producing military units will distract from your Culture strategy, but it's the only way to keep the peace.

 

[Dan4GS]

So I just picked up Civ 5 a week ago and beat warlord and prince with domination and cultural victories, but am having some trouble early with King. The AI's seem to be much more aggressive at the early stages...does building a larger military early actually prevent war? Has that been tested or is it just theory?

 

[Soryn Arkayn]

So I just picked up Civ 5 a week ago and beat warlord and prince with domination and cultural victories, but am having some trouble early with King. The AI's seem to be much more aggressive at the early stages...does building a larger military early actually prevent war? Has that been tested or is it just theory?

On harder difficulties, the AI receives bonuses in Production, Science, Wealth, Happiness, and Culture, as well as free units upon discovering related Techs. Also, I think unit maintenance is less or a certain number are free for the AI.

I wouldn't say the AI is "more aggressive" on harder difficulties per se. Rather, the AI receives so much help it that it can easily overwhelm players unaccustomed to it. And since the AI always knows how strong your military is, if you're weak, they will DoW you.

That's why it is imperative on the harder difficulties to produce an effective military to dissuade the AI from DoW, or to defeat them if they do. You have no choice but to sacrifice constructing buildings and Wonders to produce military units for protection. However, having a strong military won't stop the AI from DoW if you encroach on their territory and hinder their expansion. If you do, it's only a matter of when, not if, they'll declare war on you. So if you see an AI Settler coming your way before or soon after you settle a new city nearby, you had better be prepared to defend it, becauses odds are the AI wanted that spot and soon they'll try to take it from you.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

The Leaders personality chart is very insightful regarding how the AI works. Chances are that if a formerly friendly civ suddenly denounces you or declares war on you, it's because you irked one of their personality traits.

That I get, I know that certain leaders get pissed about certain things, but these two specifically are ping ponging back and forth from war to friendly and back again over and over, which seems completely crazed. I expect this kind of behavior from Crazy Monty, not Arabia.

The reason why this might seem like a shock to you is that Prince is "Normal" difficulty, meaning that you don't receive bonuses anymore. The AI cheats to some degree, but they don't receive the bonuses like on the harder difficulty levels. Now that you're playing on Prince the training wheels have been taken off and you're experiencing the real Civ5.

Good enough, that's what I wanted, although overall I think they are still too easy even on Prince.

The most important thing to remember is that if you have a weak military, the AI will declare war on you. Sometimes you'll receive a warning in the form of a message mocking your weak military. That means that you had better produce units quickly because the next time you'll hear from that civ will be a DoW. It doesn't matter that human players can easily defeat the AI's superior numbers -- that's not something the AI factors into the equation. It's purely numbers -- even if your units are one or two levels more advanced, it won't matter.

So even if you're going for a Culture Vic, you should produce a military strong enough to dissuade the other civs from DoWing you. Ideally you want to achieve a balance wherein you're strong enough to keep them peaceful and friendly without intimidating them into Guarded, which makes Luxury trades and RAs nearly impossible. It's a narrow line to walk and the cost of producing military units will distract from your Culture strategy, but it's the only way to keep the peace.

That's the thing though, my military is far from weak, it's the strongest in the game right now. I'm playing Alexander, so all I did was befriend two nearby militaristic city states early on and they have been providing me with a steady stream of units ever since, no interruption to my cultural buildup necessary. Since the AI is terrible on the offensive in wars, I haven't lost any units at all despite being at war with someone or another nearly non stop the whole game, so at this point my standing army is huge compared to the AI. And still they don't go Guarded, they just go DoW, Friendly, DoW, Friendly, over and over. In general I'm not complaining because I have certainly made close to 10k gold already off of the peace agreements but this is silly, they are behaving like they have multiple personality disorder.

 

[Xiao Xiong]

if you encroach on their territory and hinder their expansion.

This is my favourite way to get the AI to DoW on me. Find a nice easy to defend spot smack up against their borders, settle it, build a wall there and a couple of good ranged units... and wait. Even if they somehow capture the city by the time it's over they have no army left, so then I advance straight to their capital, take it, and their next best city, and then make them pay me for peace.

 

[Aldor]

Then 2 turns later, they asking me for a declaration of friendship (which I refuse of course, I've never ever had a DoF actually help me instead of the opposite).

Why not try it? A DoF significantly lowers the chances of an AI going to war with you. And what do you mean it never helped you? You get favorable trades, if you denounce an enemy AI your friend is likely to do the same, further increasing your friendship.

Of course, even with a DoF sometimes your ally will backstab you, but in my experience that happens rather rarely. Its much more likely that a "friendly" civ (that you don't have a DoF with) will backstab you. Edit: also, don't let the DoF run out. You can renew it the turn it ends, the AI is usually happy to do so.

And if you think the AI asking you for luxuries or gold is unfair: don't you do something similar when you sell them your open borders, or strategic resources that the AI doesn't even need?

 

[Rex_Mundi]

I would guess that your opponents despise you because you live next to them, they want your wonders and they want your CS allies.

Once war is declared they soon realize they won't win and then ask for peace.

 

[headcase]

The AI gets around double happiness on Prince (12 starting instead of 9, 60% unhap, and 1 extra per lux), so they will usually be bigger which makes them confident they can war with you.

If they're too far away, they have trouble pathing to you, and if they're on another continent, they can't manage their navy, but even then they have a bigger military and they want to threaten you with it.

Not sure why they'd bribe you to end the war without losing any units though; possibly they lost some from a second war they're fighting.

 

[The_Quasar]

Not sure why they'd bribe you to end the war without losing any units though; possibly they lost some from a second war they're fighting.

This could be in response to a tech you've just got, or extra unit(s) you've just produced or bought, or even a building you've just built, that upset the balance of power, and now make them feel like you have more of an advantage than when they declared on you.

 

[OrsonM]

from here:

The artificial intelligence (AI) in Civilization V is designed to operate on four levels: the tactical AI controls individual units; the operational AI oversees the entire war front; the strategic AI manages the entire empire; and the grand strategic AI sets long-term goals and determines how to win the game. The four levels of AI complement each other to allow for complex and flexible AI behaviors.

Each of the AI-controlled leaders has a unique personality, determined by a combination of 'flavors' on a ten-point scale; however, the values may differ slightly in each game. There are 26 flavors, grouped into categories including growth, expansion, wide strategy, military preferences, recon, naval recon, naval growth, and development preferences.

 

[Vladesch]

And since the AI always knows how strong your military is, if you're weak, they will DoW you.

Not only that, but I'm pretty sure the AI knows where all your cities are and where your units are... note that I mean this in a strategic sense, ie it knows which cities are the least defended and goes for those. It doesn't know where your units are from a tactical perspective though.

 

[Pook]

OK, so I'm not the only one. Glad I found this thread. I was having trouble understanding why Napoleon gave me his "The odds may be against me" speech before launching his pikeman (singular) and archer (singular) to take on my riflemen and cannons. His actions make a bit more sense now- not much, but a bit. Irrational, stupid, and possibly suicidal, but not insane.

 

[King of Prussia]

In my current game I was at war with England, Persia, and Greece constantly. Most of the time they DoW on me a few turns after we agreed to open borders. and a few turns later they wanted peace. They didn't DoW on me again after I stopped signing open borders with them. this is at King.

 

[Xiao Xiong]

I don't think the AI knows which city is undefended, I think it goes for the closest and only if that is heavily guarded splits it's attack. I love when it splits... I have had the AI attacking four of my cities at once. Had it concentrated on just one it would have won...

 

[Mesix]

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Albert Einstein

By this definition, the AI players are insane. They play against a superior human opponent over and over again and always expect to win.

 

[Ruler]

Strong military shut their mouth. Its just impossible to sue peace without strong military. Best just show whos the boss. You can give cities though. 10 archers = 5 river side trading post. Military is so cheap.

 

[Junuxx]

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Albert Einstein

By this definition, the AI players are insane. They play against a superior human opponent over and over again and always expect to win.

If they always expect to win, they aren't exactly expecting different results, are they?
Maybe they are sane but deluded.

 

[thewiseone]

First off AI is a misnomer since there is no AI in Civ or any video game for that matter. Secondly while it may seem unfortunate for someone playing Civ that the scripting routines for computer players are lacking it is actually benefitial in the greater sense of things.
Because programming an AI requires a mind that is foreign to game development and for good reason. Someone with the skills to provide Civ with a faboulous "AI" would be a) paid much more and b) rewarded with a perhaps more fulfilling life purpose in other enterprises.
And this is where it gets beneficial to all of us; people with these skills should and do work on real, actual problems and solutions that regard all of mankind. Thus I conclude that not only is it futile to expect the "AI" will improve significantly in Civ5 , Civ6 or Civ 13992 but it is actually for the better that there never will be. Yes, it is tiresome to reveal the many flaws of the scripting routine in Civ5 but if my grandkids get to live on some other planet because those skills were put to a better use then I am willing to not only tolerate but celebrate this circumstance. Hooray for the bad "AI".

 

[danieladler]

Compared to the world we are living in, the AI in CiV is way too logic and rational