AI is Culture Bombing me... an interresting dilemna

[stephan_civ3]

Hi All -

I read a lot about culture bombing, strategies, etc in those forums, although did not find a solution for this particular problem:

Quick Intro:
- Playing Regent, patch 1.21f
- Year 1450AD
- 10 Civs, playing Babylonians, am ranked 4th

Started on my very own large continent. Expanded rapidly, settled most of it by 540AD. Comes in the French (who are the highest scoring nation), they create 2 cities - and so do the Aztecs, creating 1 more.

Culture Assimilated the Aztecs , but not the French. I was hoping they would culture flip in my favor in time since these two French cities are *surrounded by 24 of my own cities*, but it NEVER HAPPENED.

Now, we are in 1450AD, the 2 French cities are size 12, and will culturally expand in 47 turns, probably assimilating some of my own cities. That's right, the French is culture bombing me, on my own continent, *right next to my frigging capital*.

I have built every single culture related city improvements in ALL of my cities, but because the French mainland is twice the size as mine, they have twice my culture.

It seemed to me I have now no further choice but attacking these cities. But is that so?

I did create a 'branched' game where I did indeed attack the two cities in question and conquered them. Results: 100% resistance, no production, meaning no way of controlling the resistance (WLTK day can't be triggered, I can't starve them because post-patch, and garrisoning would be suicide because they always flip no matter how many units I stationed)

Remember, these two cities are within *my continent*, surrounded by *my cities*, close to *my capital* and far away from their capital. BUT it looks like that the fact that the French have twice my culture is enough to make these cities 'unbeatable'.

So, should I raze them? Or should I leave the city un-garrisoned, then stationed units outside and retake them every time they flip? Would it improve the levels of resistance over time? (Remember it would means going to war each time they flip, then quickly suing for peace) - Help!

PS: I read somewhere that Soren said the 1.21f (which i am using) would garanty a 1:1 garrison/suppressed resistance ratio, is that so?

Stephan

 

[Sullla]

There is no need to worry about those cities at all. It is very difficult to flip large cities (over size 6) with multiple cultural buildings inside, even if they are right next to your capitol. So don't expect those French cities to go to your control any time soon. But by the same token, there is pretty much a 0% chance of any of your cities flipping to their control. I think you may be worrying a little too much about the culture flips, as they aren't that frequent; in a game I played today, I captured the Babylonian capitol, which had been the city with most culture in the whole world and was size 12. The new Babylonian capitol was about 5 tiles away. I thought I had no chance to prevent a flip, but over the next 25 turns of warfare, the city only flipped one time! And this was under pretty much the greatest possible chance for a culture flip. So don't worry my friend - you cities are safe. But if you want to get out of 4th place, you will probably have to pick a war with someone at some point (unless you want a diplomatic or spaceship win.)

 

[Tassadar]

You should have built a road to those 2 french city much earlier and manage to have WLTK. Chance of flipping is much greater because you connect your luxuries to those potential city and they want to join the fiesta (WLTK).

 

[Rooker]

While I agree with Sullla, that your own cities are in no immediate danger, I couldn't live with an eyesore like that on my continent. Not if I had every other tile. If the French had like a third, I woldn't trouble over it - but two cities? Raze them and build your own.

- Other than just leaving them there, attack seems the only option.

I find it interesting that despite your area dominant culture, you couldn't hold on to the cities. I thought that area played a bigger part in the culture war.

 

[Catt]

Originally posted by stephan_civ3
. . . I can't starve them because post-patch . . .

Has 1.21 changed the ability to starve a city in some way? I have been strategically starving some captured cities on 1.21. Just curious if I've missed something.

Thanks.

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by Catt


Has 1.21 changed the ability to starve a city in some way? I have been strategically starving some captured cities on 1.21. Just curious if I've missed something.

Thanks.

I haven't seen any difference. (?).

 

[akinkhoo]

you can starve them once they ended the resistance.
if you act quickly, they should have no problem....
I like to give them no food

you can also try bomdardment and bring the
size down before you capture the city!

 

[stephan_civ3]

Thanks to all of you for the advice. I played the game for about 30 more hours since my first post and though you might like an update:

- I decided not to attack
- None of my or the french cities in question flipped, but their radius of influence was greatly reduced.

I am playing on a huge map with 10 civs. When 7 civs were known, I was ranked #4. Then come in the 3 other civs, on 3 HUGE continents each: India, China, America.

I became ranked #7, but thanks to some wise military decisions (basically, no MPP, let the other fight each other), I am now ranked #4 and on my way to #3, still with the same territory size!!

I like the above a lot, because my biggest problem with CIV2 was that only the number of cities mattered to win, and if by mid-game you weren't #1 for map size, you could basically stop playing.

Here, I am ranked #4 for territory size, but #1 for productivity, GNP and approval rating. Gotta love this game!

PS: my plan now is to let my culture surpass the French, and use spies to start revolt in the 2 cities that are within my territory (because the fools went to war, they switched to communism and lost most of their luxuries).

Stephan

 

[Hybrid-of-One]

destroy the cities! then settle them.

 

[Bamspeedy]

If you have a far superior culture compared to the other civ, you will eventually flip their cities (even on another continent than your own), it just takes time. But you must have a tremendous lead in culture, and if you really want those cities to flip, do a very dense build right by their city. In this game, I have assimilated some AI capitals down to just a few squares. This was on Regent level, also.

 

[Shabbaman]

I'm in with hybrid. I think razing captured cities is often a good choice. I take it that there are not many city-improvements left upon capture, so the only reason not to raze those captured cities would be a size 12 city. But when razed, there will be 2 perfect settling points left, with improvements all over! With irrigated grasslands your city will grow rapidly, while you have the time of building temples etc. to ensure their happiness.

Besides, the workers you get upon razing can be added to other cities, or to the new settlement.

 

[Sullla]

As horrible as it may be ethically, the game essentially forces you to raze all cities captured after the industrial age begins. These cities will inevitably be whipped/drafted into unhappiness forever by the AI and have so much culture build up that they will never accept your rule. Trying to prevent a flip in a city of size 12+ is pretty much impossible. It's almost sad that the only solution is to burn all cities captured to the ground, but that's the only fix the game allows.

 

[Daaraa]

I would say to capture the two cities. I never raze cities unless I am going to kill the enemy civ. Otherwise they will hate you forever.
Then garrison them heavily (1:1).
And starve the population every turn. (Everyturn the AI will put them all back to work.)
Meanwhile build workers in these two cities. You'll add to your workforce this way.

Propaganda will be expensive because of the size of the cities so prepare for that if you go that route.

PS Welcome to the forum Stephan

 

[Shabbaman]

By the way, with the 1.21 patch you can disband your cities right?

 

[stephan_civ3]

Hi again-

To the person who said welcome, thank you very much

I am about to wage war on the German in that very same game. I put my production advantage to good use and will try to hold their size 22 and higher cities with my 200+ Mech infantries. Will let you know if they flipped or not despite the heavy garrisoning.

Stephan

 

[Sholto]

If there are (or will be) strategic resources within the city areas I don't think they flip. I saw this comment on another thread and my experience so far is the same.

 

[Daaraa]

This too could be true. I've never had resource-cities the AI has held flip. And it is more difficult to propaganda them to my side if the AI knows the resourdce is there. (
In my current game I saw two Japanese cities side by side. One had Iron the other Oil. I wanted the Oil. So I used my spy and "bought" the Oil city. I decided hey, why not try to grab the Iron as well. It didn't work. I tried next turn knowing the odds are a little in my favour. It didn't work then either. I tried for 3 or 4 more turns with no success. We were both republic so no governmental influences there and the city was closer to my capital then it was to Kyoto. However, I could have had a really bad string of luck. Who knows. I took it over a couple of turns later with my armies.

 

[Daaraa]

Originally posted by stephan_civ3
Hi again-

To the person who said welcome, thank you very much

I am about to wage war on the German in that very same game. I put my production advantage to good use and will try to hold their size 22 and higher cities with my 200+ Mech infantries. Will let you know if they flipped or not despite the heavy garrisoning.

Stephan

Your welcome

Don't forget to do something about the large populations. Rush workers or settlers. Starve them out, whatever. Also, if you have the Longevity wonder you can starve the city down and then repopulate it rather quickly using your own native population. Also, if you don't need the workers, try getting your native workers to join the german cities that could flip.
Just a few suggestions Good luck and happy conquesting. :tank: