AI not beelining religion?

[Mewtarthio]

Of course, what's worse is that it's very hard to convert away from Neutral. If an Evil civ gets RoK in the beginning of the game, that civ will likely never be Evil again. If the Overlords could turn Neutral civs Evil, that could help things (plus the Overlords don't seem like very nice people...).

 

[Grunthex]

I remember way back in the Light phase, I think, evil civs could not adopt order, and good civs could not adopt Veil. You had to go through a neutral-making religion just to get there. I thought it was a lot more flavorful, you didn't have the Order worshipping Sheaim quite so often...

 

[Fenboy]

Of course, what's worse is that it's very hard to convert away from Neutral. If an Evil civ gets RoK in the beginning of the game, that civ will likely never be Evil again. If the Overlords could turn Neutral civs Evil, that could help things (plus the Overlords don't seem like very nice people...).

The big problem there is the Lanun civilisation would wind up evil in most games. Council of Esus might be a better choice, if only for that reason. I'd also have Empyrean turning neutrals good. Unfortunately I can't work out how to do it in XML.

 

[Sto]

I'd also have Empyrean turning neutrals good. Unfortunately I can't work out how to do it in XML.

You can do that with CIV4ReligionInfo.xml :

			<Alignment>ALIGNMENT_GOOD</Alignment>
			<AlignmentBest>ALIGNMENT_GOOD</AlignmentBest>
			<AlignmentWorst>ALIGNMENT_NEUTRAL</AlignmentWorst>

changing ALIGNMENT_NEUTRAL to ALIGNMENT_GOOD . It doesn't seems that this is what you want but i've made a little modmod with an option that prevent a civ to adopt or research a religion that makes change your alignment .

Tcho !

 

[xienwolf]

I was looking for precisely where alignments are changed and came across the research restrictions again. Thought I would add those since this thread already discussed Python B-line coding.


AI alignment MUST be GOOD in order for them to research Orders from Heaven and found The Order
AI alignment CANNOT be EVIL in order for them to research Way of the Earthmother, Honor or Way of the Wise
AI alignment CANNOT be GOOD in order for them to research Message from the Deep, Deception or Way of the Wicked
AI alignment MUST be EVIL in order for them to research Corruption of Spirit.


So that is probably why you don't see AV being researched by the AI so much. RoK or Order hits them first, and then they are flat out refused permission to found it. Though as soon as any Evil Civilization learns Philosophy they will rush to found AV if still possible, likewise with Good and Order. And once an AI learns Corruption of Spirit they will rush to spawn Hyborem if still possible.

 

[Fenboy]

You can do that with CIV4ReligionInfo.xml :

			<Alignment>ALIGNMENT_GOOD</Alignment>
			<AlignmentBest>ALIGNMENT_GOOD</AlignmentBest>
			<AlignmentWorst>ALIGNMENT_NEUTRAL</AlignmentWorst>

Thanks, I'll change it when I get back to my PC (in a couple of weeks, ).

 

[Fenboy]

Double post, doh!

 

[stp]

Just a small addition that has not been mentioned here: That change will make everyone adopting Empyrean good just like the Order does. If that is what you want just ignore this post However, shortly before the first Shadow release many people here requested a mechanic for the Empyrean that could turn evil civs neutral and neutral civs good, but from what I know this isn't possible with the current implementation of alignment.

 

[Maniac]

I'd say make Runes of Kilmorph true neutral, and merge the Overlords religion with Esus (or remove it). Then you get one good, one good-neutral, two neutral, one neutral-evil and one evil religion. Still symmetric. The only leader for which the Octopus Overlords religion really fits anyway is Hannah. And the hidden nationality effects of Esus would quite fit for the pirate Lanuns too!

 

[Bad Player]

EDIT: Been covered above.

 

[Bad Player]

I'd say make Runes of Kilmorph true neutral, and merge the Overlords religion with Esus (or remove it). Then you get one good, one good-neutral, two neutral, one neutral-evil and one evil religion. Still symmetric. The only leader for which the Octopus Overlords religion really fits anyway is Hannah. And the hidden nationality effects of Esus would quite fit for the pirate Lanuns too!

Thing is that you dont want ppl to know you are Council of Esus so another religion like OO is a good cover for you (ie being 2 religions effectively).

 

[Mewtarthio]

The trouble is that the Overlords are thematically extremely different from Esus. One religion espouses madness, the other careful plotting. One religion seeks to overtly enslave, the other hides in the shadows.

 

[rusty217]

Oh, and you can't mix any religions because it, like everything else, has to be a multiple of 7...

 

[Maniac]

The trouble is that the Overlords are thematically extremely different from Esus. One religion espouses madness, the other careful plotting. One religion seeks to overtly enslave, the other hides in the shadows.

They're both related to Mammon. And they both use slaves. Anyway, another alternative is just scrapping Overlords entirely, and move some of the goodies to other parts of the game. Eg make Hannah evil and make the Stygian Guard a Lanun replacement for the Eidolon.

Oh, and you can't mix any religions because it, like everything else, has to be a multiple of 7...

No it doesn't have to.

 

[Mewtarthio]

They're both related to Mammon. And they both use slaves. Anyway, another alternative is just scrapping Overlords entirely, and move some of the goodies to other parts of the game. Eg make Hannah evil and make the Stygian Guard a Lanun replacement for the Eidolon.

Related to Mammon? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Council of Esus worship, y'know, Esus?

(NB The cult that worships Mammon is called the Stewards of Inequity)

And why cut the Overlords at all? They lost a lot of their flavor in 0.31 (no more Mutation ), but I still think it's better to fix them then to declare them a water cult.

No it doesn't have to.

Actually, yes, yes it does.

 

[Maniac]

Related to Mammon? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Council of Esus worship, y'know, Esus?

They also are centered around using money. Esus is the prime focus, but Mammon would make a logical secondary.

And why cut the Overlords at all?

Because then symmetry could be maintained if Runes was made true neutral.

Plus I think less religions would actually benefit the game. Then there's a higher chance there will be several civs following each religion. Less is more!

 

[Mewtarthio]

Okay, then why makes Runes "True Neutral"?

 

[Blackmantle]

Just making the AI leaders a bit more reluctant to adopt religions that whould change their alignment than they are now might help. As well as making certain civs a bit more reluctant to open borders right cross alignments boundaries.

Small changes can go a long way here i reckon.

I also dont see a reason for axing any of the existing religions. (though changing OO and Empyrean to a flat one step Change to their respective extreme might work / be a sensible change. Imo Esus and Rok are fine flavorwise as is FoL)

An adittional possible fix is instead of completely blocking a research path make it considerably low priority (but not! nil) for said AI while retaining the trade-block for those techs (and retaining the full block for malvolent designs / righteousness).
If that distinction is possible in the first place.

 

[Maniac]

Okay, then why makes Runes "True Neutral"?

To prevent most evil civs turning neutral in half the games you play.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

How would also turning good civs neutral stop evil civs from turning neutral?