[R&F] AI Pantheon choices

[Archon_Wing]

I think magnus needs the nerf more then anything. Stupid harvest>Magnus>instrumentality is ruining MP games.

They both do.

But this thing was the best pantheon IMO even before the expansion.

 

[isau]

Well I'd put all of them in line for the nerf bat to be honest.

• Magnus - +25% from chops (if not change this ability entirely) and make it no longer a Tier 1 promotion
• Earth Goddess - Should generate Faith from tiles of Breathtaking or better considering there is zero investment required. All the other pantheons at least require an improvement (mine, pasture, whatever)
• Goddess of the Harvest - Should generate a flat Faith bonus, not scale with chop strength. +15 or +25, nothing much more than that. Compare to the belief that offers +50 Faith for taking a Barb Camp. Did they really intend a chop strategy to grant hundreds of times more faith than that given the minimimal investment?

Some of the other pantheons need buffs too, but this takes care of the baseline.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I would reduce groundbreaker to +50% and prevent any other modifiers from ever being used for chops besides that one.

I'd also make Vertical Integration double the production from industrial zones to maybe encourage him to stay around

 

[Lily_Lancer]

With Magnus in the game, is Harvest the new "go-to" pantheon? Has it been for a while now? I've always thought God of the Forge was the best if creating military units, but I can see Harvest taking over with Magnus

It already was. It was already stronger than the sum of all others before patch since the game was released. Magnus just make it even stronger.

 

[kaspergm]

Victoria, I have a question for you: The way AI evaluates Pantheons actually seems quite sane, so I was wondering if the same kind of evaluations were used for other things, specifically build orders in towns? The question came to my mind because of a case of Teddy building an essentially zero-value Chichen Itza (see my post here), and I was wondering whether the AI actually does a value assessment of the wonder based on the tiles in the city, using a similar mechanism as the code used for pantheon evaluation.

 

[UWHabs]

The fact that Magnus' chop bonus is multiplicative with virtually every other bonus makes it a double-whammy. If it was the same bonus structure as any of the policy cards, then even the +100% bonus wouldn't be crazy OP, although probably a 50% bonus would still be strong enough. Especially for an opener bonus.

 

[Ever Adrift]

Earth Goddess always seems to be taken first in my games, but I only play at King and Emperor. It annoys me especially when playing Persia, for which I find Earth Goddess stupid-strong given the Pairdaeza's (sp?)+2 appeal... essentially, you can make it so that almost all tiles offer faith...

 

[Victoria]

Earth Goddess always seems to be taken first in my games

In most games it will be if you look at the original post. I guess on higher level there is the chance of getting 2 faith huts on turn 1 but mighty slim.

 

[Karpius]

Lol. Took me so long to realise this. It was my go to. Then one day I actually read the text and was like " awwwww. Nnnnooooo."

I don't care! Its still my go to Pantheon even if I have been proven foolhardy for doing so. I'm a creature of habit. An old guy who resists change just to be a curmudgeon! It took years for my family to pry my flip phone from my grubby fingers! I still possess a workable Walkman! I even refuse to get rid of my electric typewriter!

 

[Softly]

Well I'd put all of them in line for the nerf bat to be honest.

• Magnus - +25% from chops (if not change this ability entirely) and make it no longer a Tier 1 promotion
• Earth Goddess - Should generate Faith from tiles of Breathtaking or better considering there is zero investment required. All the other pantheons at least require an improvement (mine, pasture, whatever)
• Goddess of the Harvest - Should generate a flat Faith bonus, not scale with chop strength. +15 or +25, nothing much more than that. Compare to the belief that offers +50 Faith for taking a Barb Camp. Did they really intend a chop strategy to grant hundreds of times more faith than that given the minimimal investment?

Some of the other pantheons need buffs too, but this takes care of the baseline.

What is they changed Earth Goddess to be +2 faith from tiles of Breathtaking or better instead of +1 faith from charming tiles or better? Would require a lot more active planning (city parks, Eiffel Tower, keep forests). I think this would actually be much better the only problem could be civs like Persia which can get breathtaking tiles everywhere.

 

[Victoria]

What is they changed Earth Goddess to be +2 faith from tiles of Breathtaking or better

I have done 5 starts as Gitjara getting +2 faith form the start. In all 5 games I got harvest goddess but never earth, it goes first. Its like an AI civ benefit for the fastest to get a nice strong start and make sure its not super easy for you.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I have done 5 starts as Gitjara getting +2 faith form the start. In all 5 games I got harvest goddess but never earth, it goes first. Its like an AI civ benefit for the fastest to get a nice strong start and make sure its not super easy for you.

I wonder what people do in multi-player? Probably take harvest goddess first anyway and use earth goddess as the silver medal. Must be challenging to decide how far you can safely fall behind in other areas in order to have a shot at one of these pantheon.

 

[Victoria]

I wonder what people do in multi-player? Probably take harvest goddess first anyway and use earth goddess as the silver medal. Must be challenging to decide how far you can safely fall behind in other areas in order to have a shot at one of these pantheon.

Gitjara gets +2 faith from turn 1. Lord knows how the other civs are beating her to earth goddess, must be the deity bonus although 7 civs chances of finding a +20 faith goody hut are high I guess. Harvest does get ridiculous sums later but for a golden classical monument earth goddess may be better.

 

[Ever Adrift]

Gitjara gets +2 faith from turn 1. Lord knows how the other civs are beating her to earth goddess, must be the deity bonus although 7 civs chances of finding a +20 faith goody hut are high I guess. Harvest does get ridiculous sums later but for a golden classical monument earth goddess may be better.

I had a game where I met three separate religious CS within the first 10 turns on epic which gave me first choice of pantheon, rather easily I assume. Depending on the number of civs and CS you play with, the chances of someone getting lucky and starting next/very-near a religious natural wonder or the right CS for a really fast pantheon is high.

 

[kaspergm]

Also, someone starting with Tobacco or Incense near their capital + bumping one faith hut will be able to get a pantheon before Indonesia does.

 

[Victoria]

Also, someone starting with Tobacco or Incense near their capital + bumping one faith hut will be able to get a pantheon before Indonesia does.

You can ony get faith from T20 by the looks of it
Finding a relic and a religious CS will do though.

 

[kaspergm]

You can ony get faith from T20 by the looks of it
Finding a relic and a religious CS will do though.

Good point, forgot. But yeah, relic would do.

Btw. did you see my question to you earlier on the page?

 

[Victoria]

Btw. did you see my question to you earlier on the page?

No... if you want to direct a question at someone start with @ and as you start typing my name it will come up. I will then get a notification on this.

There is decision trees in the game on all types of things yes, its not just random. Was there anything in particular?everything by any stretch and its only questions that get me closer.

For example I just found parameter WONDER_FREE_TILES_UPON_COMPLETION" Value="2" which indicates you get 2 additional tiles in your city when you finish a wonder... I never knew that

 

[zxcvbob]

Am I the only one who thinks Divine Spark is the goto pantheon, especially when you're in a foot race for religion?

Sheesh, between that and Jesuit Education, your science can really take off for you, cheaply...

I usually take Divine Spark. If I'm playing a civ that gets too many great people already (like Kongo) I might go Religious Settlements. I have never tried Goddess of Harvest; I'm not sure it has ever been available.

 

[kaspergm]

No... if you want to direct a question at someone start with @ and as you start typing my name it will come up. I will then get a notification on this.

There is decision trees in the game on all types of things yes, its not just random. Was there anything in particular?everything by any stretch and its only questions that get me closer.

For example I just found parameter WONDER_FREE_TILES_UPON_COMPLETION" Value="2" which indicates you get 2 additional tiles in your city when you finish a wonder... I never knew that

@Victoria

Interesting about those free tiles, I had actually noticed that sometimes without knowing the exact mechanism.

With regards to the decision making, does the game actually score tiles in a city to evaluate the value of wonders like Petra, Chichen Itza or St. Basils Cathedral, or does thee AI just rank the wonders generically and build them at random if a suitable tile is available and nothing otherwise ranks higher?