AI Terrain Cheating?

[Maple]

It's well known that the AI cheats constantly, but do they get terrain bonuses as well? In my current game, (regent) I have made contact with four civilizations so far. In the three that I have maps of, each civ has two luxuries right beside their capital.

I'm in the middle of the game right now, but when later I will post screens of the three cities.


Does this happen to anyone else?

 

[WarlordMatt]

Yup. Whenever the "History of the World: The Happiest Civs in the World" pops up, I am always "The Forgotten [civnamehere]"

 

[sumthinelse]

Originally posted by Maple
It's well known that the AI cheats constantly, but do they get terrain bonuses as well? In my current game, (regent) I have made contact with four civilizations so far. In the three that I have maps of, each civ has two luxuries right beside their capital.

I'm in the middle of the game right now, but when later I will post screens of the three cities.


Does this happen to anyone else?

I think the resource distribution is random. In my game I have a luxury next to my starting location but none of AI civs do.

 

[etj4Eagle]

Originally posted by sumthinelse


I think the resource distribution is random. In my game I have a luxury next to my starting location but none of AI civs do.

I'm pretty sure it is as well. Also I would assume that both the game and the editor use the same map generation routine. In which case frist a map is randomly generated with start positions. And then after that, you are randomly assigned to one of those start positions.

 

[bobgote]

i agree. random.

 

[dojoboy]

Have you ever started a game and searched for a good capital city location? I have, but rarely. Its possible that the AIs might do the same thing, depending on their traits. I don't know --- just a thought.

 

[NiteCreature]

Originally posted by dojoboy
Have you ever started a game and searched for a good capital city location? I have, but rarely. Its possible that the AIs might do the same thing, depending on their traits. I don't know --- just a thought.

I don't think so... U can check this at the end or of u retire in the histograph (or whatever it's called). Most of the time the AI plants cities rightaway.

However, i have done this before, ie. when i see a river 1 tile away i will move there instead of original starting loc.

How many of u civvers search for a good starting pos?

 

[Catt]

Originally posted by Maple
It's well known that the AI cheats constantly . . .

I don't agree at all, and am still waiting for someone to show proof of this. Killer cames closest recently with his "instant defender" post, but I believe a rational (i.e., within normal game function) uncovered the fact that there was, in fact, no cheating.

 

[Trinity]

Originally posted by NiteCreature


I don't think so... U can check this at the end or of u retire in the histograph (or whatever it's called). Most of the time the AI plants cities rightaway.

However, i have done this before, ie. when i see a river 1 tile away i will move there instead of original starting loc.

How many of u civvers search for a good starting pos?

I've done this, and found that I usually end up in year 2000 just getting mech infantry. It tends to put you behind in scientific research. Better to drop a city and build a settler at first opportunity.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Catt: we found out that at best, Firaxis made us think it was: production turn, move turn player 1, production turn, move turn player 2, and so on, but it isn't. This gives an advantage to the AI.

As for starting pos: random! Fully! And i do use my worker (+ scout) to check the surroundingds before I plunk down my capital.

 

[-proletarian-]

The AI ALWAYS, ALWAYS founds their capital at 4000BC. In the 9 months that I've owned this game, not once have I seen the AI found their first city after 4000BC.

However, when I read the thread title on the main screen, I was reminded of a cheat that I have encountered many a time; the manifestation of tile improvements with no worker in the square. Just send out a scout/warrior and park outside their capital city early on. You'll see roads with a mine suddenly appear during the AI'S turn, but without a worker having been in the square in question. Terrain improvements such as roads, mines and irrigation (or a combination of the three ie. roads and mines, roads and irrigation) will just appear out of thin air for the AI, without them having had a worker on the terrain tile building the actual improvements.

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by Catt


I don't agree at all, and am still waiting for someone to show proof of this. Killer cames closest recently with his "instant defender" post, but I believe a rational (i.e., within normal game function) uncovered the fact that there was, in fact, no cheating.

Yeah, surrre.

The AI cheats regularly EVEN AT REGENT. There have been posts and entire threads on this for months. Some are newly up today.
Do some research and searching for the multitude of examples. I have personally posted numerous cheats, such as at Regent how the AI somehow "knew" I had just razed a city and quickly deposited a transport with settlers and military there on the coastline - it's a cheat they knew, and a cheat they had the units get their that quickly. BUT THEN, I went back to autosave to several turns earler and put units on those coastline tiles - that transport NEVER SHOWED UP! And that is as blatant a cheat as could be.

There are many, many more examples. Most posted.

BUT. . . even I have never claimed the AI cheats with the map and resource allocation. THAT I have never seen or even suspected. I don't think it happens. But Firaxis conveniently killed the Civ 2 Multi Cheat feature, and Civ 3's "multi.sav", no doubt so we cannot check on its cheating.

 

[Catt]

Killer - I agree in part -- I assumed it was H production, H move, AI production, AI move. But this was just an assumption on our part -- if I thought about it with more vigor, perhaps I could have deciphered that it worked the other way (for instance, I have never, ever seen a post by someone who used a leader to rush a wonder (i.e., get it down to one turn) only to find that the AI builds the wonder before the next turn -- an event that no doubt would have occured by now (and been shouted from the rooftops here) if the reality had been H prod - H move - AI prod - AI move. Why do you say that Firaxis "made us think otherwise?" Also, why is the advantage to the AI? We still get to move first.

Zouave - I respect your posts for the most part -- but the fact that the AI knows the entire map and the location of units is (1) well known by anyone who has spent time playing the game or on these boards, and (2) IMHO, not to be considered a cheat but rather a necessary evil of AI functioning (reasonable people can differ on this, I acknowledge). Note that the AI, despite knowing the map and units, still buys maps (or threatens you for them ) in an effort to "seem human" even though it couldn't possibly have much of a use for the map.

With the exception of the "map and unit knowledge" fact, I still have never seen evidence of any of the other so-called "common" cheats: (1) your favorite teleporting galleys; (2) AI "free and instant" settlers nearby when a city is razed; (3) AI altering (unfairly) production (free shields) to produce that wonder just one turn before the human, etc.

All I'm asking for is a little evidence that any of this is going on . . .

 

[rangers85]

The "instant" settler thing later in the game isn't necessarily so much of a cheat. If you notice when investigating a city, civs seem to have a few spare settlers laying around their cities. Therefore, when a war breaks out, they can pull those settlers out of reserve. I'm actually thinking about starting to use this and keeping 2 or so spare settlers around just incase.

Also, to Zouave, you too can see when a city is razed on the map. It's not like there's a pop-up box for you saying "Paris has been razed sire" but if you watch the minimap you'll see a blank hole open up where Paris was.

 

[Trinity]

Right you see the blank hole open up on the mini map because you're right next to it because you razed the city, or if it was part of your empire you would know it was razed. But the AI knows immediately of the vacant space.

Solution, have a few spare settlers hanging around.

 

[Blitzer]

However, when I read the thread title on the main screen, I was reminded of a cheat that I have encountered many a time; the manifestation of tile improvements with no worker in the square. Just send out a scout/warrior and park outside their capital city early on. You'll see roads with a mine suddenly appear during the AI'S turn, but without a worker having been in the square in question. Terrain improvements such as roads, mines and irrigation (or a combination of the three ie. roads and mines, roads and irrigation) will just appear out of thin air for the AI, without them having had a worker on the terrain tile building the actual improvements.

NO, it just takes a turn before you can see improvements on land that you have just explored.

 

[Blitzer]

the only cheating ive seen in the AI is that they always know which of your cities are undefended when at war, when there is no way they could know that without cheating.

 

[Hurricane]

Answer to the original polst:

Just send out a scout/warrior and park outside their capital city early on...

The driving factor here is the word park. If you fortify the scout, you will not be informed of AI moves around the unit. Thus it could seem like improvements pop out of thin air. They don´t. Instead, press space each turn, and you´ll get to see what the AI is up to.

Also, as Blitzer points out, in some rare cases terrain improvements will not show up until the map has been refreshed.

To Trinity:

Right you see the blank hole open up on the mini map because you're right next to it because you razed the city, or if it was part of your empire you would know it was razed. But the AI knows immediately of the vacant space.

No, as long as the area in question is discovered on your map, it will immediately be updated if a city is founded or razed. You don´t have to have any units near the spot, you don´t have to buy an updated map or do nothing else. All that is required is that the spot is not inside the black unexplored area of the minimap. The human is of course not always as eagle-eyed as the AI when it comes down to things like this.

By the way, the AI does not send settlers into the black areas of its own map. So it makes sense not selling your map too easily.

to Catt:

-- if I thought about it with more vigor, perhaps I could have deciphered that it worked the other way (for instance, I have never, ever seen a post by someone who used a leader to rush a wonder (i.e., get it down to one turn) only to find that the AI builds the wonder before the next turn...

Good point! This is a definite advantage for the human. Easily prooved, as well. Start building a wonder and investigate the rival cities building the same wonder. Adjust your production so that the wonder will be finished in EXACTLY the same number of turns as the fastest AI city. Which civ will get the wonder first? Answer: the human player. ALWAYS.

 

[sumthinelse]

Originally posted by Zouave


But Firaxis conveniently killed the Civ 2 Multi Cheat feature, and Civ 3's "multi.sav", no doubt so we cannot check on its cheating.

Zoave, if you have a saved game where you think the AI is cheating I can help you. I can reveal the whole map so you can see everything (except what is inside cities... you can only see the top unit, but there is a way to do that too). Save your games and post them or email me.

We can speculate or we can find out the truth.

 

[-proletarian-]

Originally posted by Blitzer

NO, it just takes a turn before you can see improvements on land that you have just explored.

Really? Where did you see this?