Aikido

[Akka]

You can't run around with a katana either, on the other hand ^^

 

[Yoda Power]

Originally posted by Akka
You can't run around with a katana either, on the other hand ^^

but as i said, i dont train Kendo to defend myself.

BTW you cant run around with a Katana thats true, but a Shinai can be just as lethal as a Katana, if you understand to use it right.

 

[animepornstar]

Originally posted by Akka
(They aren't better or worse, they are the same. All the punches in boxing are also used in many martial arts.

the differences in the punching are slight but such small things like how wide you holds your elbows when striking, how you rotate your hand and if you keep your fist closed all the time or close it just before impact make difference in the long run. i've not studied every martial art but dare to say that boxing does those things better.

Originally posted by Akka
You persist not reading what I write : I don't say the PUNCHES are weaker, I say that BOXING is lousy for a real, no-rules fight.

i said: "boxing has better and more effective punching than any other martial art"

you answered: "No. Much LESS effective in fact."

i thought that it was this we are debating about.

Originally posted by Akka
I'm light and fast. I'm naturally built for quick hits. I can deal big blows, but it's more difficult for me to do so because I lack mass and my muscles are more on the fast side than on the powerful side.
So rather than using things that would go against how I'm built, I'd rather use the style that fit my frame. Simple as that.

sure, stick to what works for you, but i hope you don't believe that fast and flashy kicks will work.

Originally posted by Akka
Practicing. It's not because we don't do full-contact sparring often that we never practice sparring at all.
And there is much more than sparring in a fight. Avoiding, engluing, are a different style but also efficient.

i've just come home from my training and we ended it with a kind sparring where you fight one on one by only using low kicks. even if you know what is going to happen is it really hard to avoid to get hit and i really doubt that anyone who hasn't met lowkicks before can avoid them. what i doubt even more is that someone who takes a low kick to the thigh for the first time know how the body and the mind reacts on it.

what is engluing? my english fails me here.

Originally posted by Akka
Aren't you reading what I write ?
Jujustu IS ABOUT ground and pound. And it's not because one artist is beaten that the whole art is useless, or all the arts would be.

i thought jiu-jutsu was about ground and submit and that the punched only were used to set up submissions, correct me if i'm wrong. ground and pound is when you take somebody down and beat the **** out of him.

Originally posted by Akka
Well, if you think that, with the same intensity of practice and the same skill, anyone can, in six month, becomes more powerful than any other in three to four years, just because he practices another art, I just have to say : come back on Earth.

yes, i honestly believe that. muay thai is about simple but very effective techniques. it is nota long time since i "was on earth" and didn't believe muay thai was that poweful, but now i when i've seen and learned more (notice that i'm not training it) i'm convicted that it is that powerful. if you have a muay thai gym close to where you live, check it out.

Originally posted by Akka
Every strikes on vital points (groin, throat, eyes, temple...).
Every dislocations.
That's about a third to a half of possible moves in certain martial arts.

strikes to the throat and temple is allowed in pride fc. in the early ufc was everything except attacks on the eyes allowed and there was these ninjutsu and safta guys that knew how to attack vital points. their records became despite that lousy. there was also a pressure point guy. he was choked out after three minutes of the fight while he was trying to press his fingers at his opponents head and back.

Originally posted by Akka
We know that they work because people used them for centuries and came back alive to teach them, so they probably are not that lousey
And you can perfectly learn a strike without necessarily landing the blow full force. It's much slower to learn, but you learn anyway.

i've not really sure that what i'm writing right now is correct, especially the tkd part, but most japanese arts come from when the samurai was fighting each other with a sword in one of their hands and were later adopted for children and given the -do in the end. tkd comes from karate and was a way for the koreans to kick the japanese samurai off their horses and was finally remade to fit the olympics. and so on... most martial arts were created for their time, not our, and has also with the time lost varying amounts of their power, which also is true for the ma i'm doing.

as tyler durden said in fight club:
how much can you know about yourself if you've never been in a fight?

 

[animepornstar]

lol, this thread seems to turning out to real fight in the art of fighting without fighting.

 

[Yoda Power]

Originally posted by animepornstar
lol, this thread seems to turning out to real fight in the art of fighting without fighting.

hmm, you have a point. Maybe a mod should change the name of this thread to: Marshall Arts Battlefield.

 

[superunknown]

Originally posted by animepornstar
tkd comes from karate and was a way for the koreans to kick the japanese samurai off their horses and was finally remade to fit the olympics.

Well, no. TKD does not come from karate. It was created by the korean general Choi Hong Hi during his imprisonment by the japanese in WW2. It became official in 1950. It was formed on older korean martial arts like for example Tae Kyon. So TKD is a quite modern art on an old foundation.

Originally posted by Yoda Power

hmm, you have a point. Maybe a mod should change the name of this thread to: Marshall Arts Battlefield.

Oh yeah!

 

[Akka]

Originally posted by animepornstar
the differences in the punching are slight but such small things like how wide you holds your elbows when striking, how you rotate your hand and if you keep your fist closed all the time or close it just before impact make difference in the long run. i've not studied every martial art but dare to say that boxing does those things better.

i said: "boxing has better and more effective punching than any other martial art"

you answered: "No. Much LESS effective in fact."

i thought that it was this we are debating about.

Ok, I see what is the problem.
The thing is that martial arts have many punches that don't exist in boxing, and can hit parts of the body that are forbidden in boxing. So a martial artist in tae kwon do, muay thay, kung-fu, karate or jujutsu (granted, it depends of the schools for most of them) has a better overall punching, because he has a larger array of moves and is trained to hit in all the sensitive places.

But for the punches they share, boxing is not particulary weaker. It's just more restricted.

sure, stick to what works for you, but i hope you don't believe that fast and flashy kicks will work.

Well, unless you're one of those guys that harden themselves and train in having wood sticks broken on their back, I can assure you that a fast, flashy kick, works marvelously.
Just keep in mind that their goal in not to injure, but to shake and distract. In fact, one of these fast kick can be perfect to shake the foe just long enough to send a more powerful, slower one.

i've just come home from my training and we ended it with a kind sparring where you fight one on one by only using low kicks. even if you know what is going to happen is it really hard to avoid to get hit and i really doubt that anyone who hasn't met lowkicks before can avoid them. what i doubt even more is that someone who takes a low kick to the thigh for the first time know how the body and the mind reacts on it.

Yeah. Low kicks are a PAIN IN THE ASS to see. I'm not even sure that it's possible at all to see some of them coming in time, unless you really have faster than light reflexes.
But if you can hit a leg, why would you go for the thigh ? Knees are so much better to kick

what is engluing? my english fails me here.

Englueing is to act like glue : to stick to your opponent, and hamper his movement. It's particularly efficient against sparring-based martial arts, as they usually don't train in body-to-body fights. Of course, it's dangerous as you have to enter into their guard. But depending on the situation, it can be extremely effective.

i thought jiu-jutsu was about ground and submit and that the punched only were used to set up submissions, correct me if i'm wrong. ground and pound is when you take somebody down and beat the **** out of him.

Well, not really. What you're talking about is the personnal style of Royce Gracie
The basic idea of jujutsu can be summed up like this : "You're in the sh*t. Now, survive."
This is one of the (if not the) broader martial art, as it include the wide use of about anything (chokes, throws, kicks, punches, blocks, dislocations, vital points, strangling, grappling, submission...). The only point is to going out from a fight with as less injuries as possible (which include, most of the time, that your opponent is not in a good shape after ; also imply that you will rather rely on avoiding, absorbing or redirecting your enemy's strikes rather than blocking them, though blocks ARE used depending on the situation).
[QUITE]yes, i honestly believe that. muay thai is about simple but very effective techniques.[/QUOTE]
Any martial art is about simple but effective techniques, at least at the basic. A complex and ineffective technique is quickly set aside

it is nota long time since i "was on earth" and didn't believe muay thai was that poweful, but now i when i've seen and learned more (notice that i'm not training it) i'm convicted that it is that powerful. if you have a muay thai gym close to where you live, check it out.

I think that the efficiency of Muay Thai artists has more to do with the dedication and intensity of their training that the fact their martial art is "better".
And seriously, six month is a bit short to learn enough to beat a black belt in any martial art (unless you practice EVERYDAY at least three hours, of course... and still...).

strikes to the throat and temple is allowed in pride fc. in the early ufc was everything except attacks on the eyes allowed and there was these ninjutsu and safta guys that knew how to attack vital points. their records became despite that lousy. there was also a pressure point guy. he was choked out after three minutes of the fight while he was trying to press his fingers at his opponents head and back.

Well, as I already said about pressure points : they are good for masters, but there is much easier and more efficient way to deal damages than them
And ninjutsu artists are supposed to rely on stealth, surprise and silence to kill their opponent. A ring is not really the best place to do so ^^

i've not really sure that what i'm writing right now is correct, especially the tkd part, but most japanese arts come from when the samurai was fighting each other with a sword in one of their hands and were later adopted for children and given the -do in the end.
tkd comes from karate and was a way for the koreans to kick the japanese samurai off their horses and was finally remade to fit the olympics. and so on... most martial arts were created for their time, not our, and has also with the time lost varying amounts of their power, which also is true for the ma i'm doing.

Err... Well, not really ^^
"do", in japanese, means "the way" (in philosophical/symbolic sense). It's used when the martial art also include some kind of philosophy or a view on life. Nothing to do with children. And only Judo was created with education in mind. The others were supposed to be used by full grown adults.

Yes, the first japanese martial arts come from samurais fighting each others. The Iaido, the kendo, the kenjutsu and so on where dealing with the swordfight.
The jujutsu includes all the techniques used when the samurai had not his sword.
All these arts are about 500 years old at least, and their roots are probably twice as old.
Karate is much younger. It comes from the peasants in Okinawa that were not allowed to carry weapons, and had to do with bare hand (the "karate", or "empty hand"), and with weapons of fortune based on agricultural tools (like nunchakus, which is basically a flail). I think that the first codification of Karate is 200 years old.
Judo and Aikido are the philosophical offspring of jujutsu, invented respectively by Sensei Kano and Seinsei Ueshiba (who were both jujutsu masters). They are contemporary (they appeared in early XXth century), and their goal is not to fight, but either sport (Judo) or philosophy and harmony (Aikido).
As they are less brutal than others, they are often teached to children, especially Judo (in fact, Judo was made as an educational art).

Most of these martial arts have not lost any of their power. Sure, the kendo and others based on swords are less useful today, where you don't usually walk around with a blade, but for the barehanded ones, there is nothing today that is different that in their times, except that humans are a bit taller and bigger. You still can be attacked by two people, one in front and one in rear, and the stranglings of today just do as much harm as the ones two centuries ago.

as tyler durden said in fight club:
how much can you know about yourself if you've never been in a fight?

Quite true

 

[Shahadet]

Only a fool trusts his life to a weapon. Unarmed fighting is the basis of all combat. Even the Samurai trained Aikido,Jujitsu and later karate.

When choosing a martial art make sure that you can honestly say to yourself that you really want to work at it. You must go into it with the understanding that it will dominate your life, that you will live your chosen art. Secondly, choose an art that reflects your personality. This is important because you must be able to relate to the moves, stances and flow of the art. For instance, a calm, strategic mind would enjoy the reactionary flow of Nin-jitsu or Aikido.

Make the right decision then stick with it. Only once you have found your true calling in the martil art world can you really focus on it.

I speak from experience.

 

[Yoda Power]

Only a fool trusts his life to a weapon. Unarmed fighting is the basis of all combat. Even the Samurai trained Aikido,Jujitsu and later karate.

how many times do i have to say that i dont train Kendo to protect myself, and i doubt you train whatever you train, to defend yourself.

When choosing a martial art make sure that you can honestly say to yourself that you really want to work at it. You must go into it with the understanding that it will dominate your life, that you will live your chosen art. Secondly, choose an art that reflects your personality. This is important because you must be able to relate to the moves, stances and flow of the art. For instance, a calm, strategic mind would enjoy the reactionary flow of Nin-jitsu or Aikido.

that on the other hand, is very true.

 

[Akka]

Originally posted by Shahadet
Only a fool trusts his life to a weapon. Unarmed fighting is the basis of all combat. Even the Samurai trained Aikido,Jujitsu and later karate.

(sorry to nitpick, but as I said in my previous post, Aikido was invented in the XXth century, and karate was practiced by the peasants of Okinawa, so I'm afraid to say that samurais did NOT trained in them ^^ They did practiced jujutsu, though)

 

[superunknown]

Originally posted by Akka

(sorry to nitpick, but as I said in my previous post, Aikido was invented in the XXth century, and karate was practiced by the peasants of Okinawa, so I'm afraid to say that samurais did NOT trained in them ^^ They did practiced jujutsu, though)

To be even worse on the nitpicking, historians do not even agree on whether the Samurai actually did train JuJutsu or not.
Most think they did, but it has not been proven. Some say that the samurai didn't bother with unarmed combat, since if they lost their sword it meant seppuku anyway.
BUT if they did in fact use unarmed combat, then it would have been Jujutsu.

 

[animepornstar]

Originally posted by Akka

Ok, I see what is the problem.
The thing is that martial arts have many punches that don't exist in boxing, and can hit parts of the body that are forbidden in boxing. So a martial artist in tae kwon do, muay thay, kung-fu, karate or jujutsu (granted, it depends of the schools for most of them) has a better overall punching, because he has a larger array of moves and is trained to hit in all the sensitive places.

But for the punches they share, boxing is not particulary weaker. It's just more restricted.

i think boxers are able to strike to the temple, chin, throat, solar plexus and the liver if opportunity is given. why shouldn't they. they do also master the basics and the basics is what you win most fights with.

Originally posted by Akka
Well, unless you're one of those guys that harden themselves and train in having wood sticks broken on their back, I can assure you that a fast, flashy kick, works marvelously.
Just keep in mind that their goal in not to injure, but to shake and distract. In fact, one of these fast kick can be perfect to shake the foe just long enough to send a more powerful, slower one.

that wood stick braking is actually a kyokushin thing, but i haven't experienced it, yet... i don't think it common nowadays.

i've seen people that has gotten confused by axe kicks, but those are not exactly fast. anyway, if someone did a fast, flashy kick in my dojo would his opponent do like muay thai guy in the clip at the second page, kick him hard or sweep him before he have returned to his stance. that is another benefit with powerful roundhouse kicks. the opponent has put a large mount of work behind his block if he doesn't want to get wrecked and at the same time is the returning mechanism of the roundhouse better than in any other mid- or high kick i know. you will be standing well protected before your opponent can counter.

Originally posted by Akka

Yeah. Low kicks are a PAIN IN THE ASS to see. I'm not even sure that it's possible at all to see some of them coming in time, unless you really have faster than light reflexes.
But if you can hit a leg, why would you go for the thigh ? Knees are so much better to kick

you can block them with your shins and a blocked low kick hurts more for the kicker than for the blocker. you can also avoid them if you are standing in the right distance.

you don't want to kick their knees because hitting a kneecap with your shin isn't a pleasant experience. there is a area (i think it's a nerve there) just a little bit above the knee that is great to hit though.

don't underrate kicks to the thigh because it hurts A LOT more than most people think. just try to beat or elbow yourself there now while you are sitting in your chair infront of your computer and read this . the pain makes people moving around more slowly and more worried about getting hit there again. the shock from getting hit in the thigh can even make people dropping their guards.

Originally posted by Akka
Englueing is to act like glue : to stick to your opponent, and hamper his movement. It's particularly efficient against sparring-based martial arts, as they usually don't train in body-to-body fights. Of course, it's dangerous as you have to enter into their guard. But depending on the situation, it can be extremely effective.

yes, that works if you have the right timing and is willing to take some punishment.

Originally posted by Akka
Well, not really. What you're talking about is the personnal style of Royce Gracie
The basic idea of jujutsu can be summed up like this : "You're in the sh*t. Now, survive."
This is one of the (if not the) broader martial art, as it include the wide use of about anything (chokes, throws, kicks, punches, blocks, dislocations, vital points, strangling, grappling, submission...). The only point is to going out from a fight with as less injuries as possible (which include, most of the time, that your opponent is not in a good shape after ; also imply that you will rather rely on avoiding, absorbing or redirecting your enemy's strikes rather than blocking them, though blocks ARE used depending on the situation).

i must confess that i've never really seen any experienced jujutsu practitioner fighting and no one seems to using it in ultimate fighting or pride for some reason. i can neither remember that iv'eseen any bjj guy tryining to punch his opponent out at the ground.

Originally posted by Akka
Any martial art is about simple but effective techniques, at least at the basic. A complex and ineffective technique is quickly set aside

if that technique isn't effective to score points with...

muay thai does seldom use or even train side kicks, while it's a very popular kick in most kung fu styles. the thais just think it's not usefull and effective enough, because their ring experience tells them so. this is an example of how muay thai sticks to the simple and effective.

full contact arts are like evolution. if someone change his technique a little bit and this technique becomes better than other techniques, it will give him success in the ring and he his reputation will raise. when he later retires and start teaching, his reputation will give him students and the good techniques will be passed on to his students.

in other arts is there a chance that things will work in the other direction. someone makes his techniques looking better or better at giving point, but not necessarily more powerful, and get higher reputation that way. like what happened to tkd when it went olympic.

Originally posted by Akka
I think that the efficiency of Muay Thai artists has more to do with the dedication and intensity of their training that the fact their martial art is "better".
And seriously, six month is a bit short to learn enough to beat a black belt in any martial art (unless you practice EVERYDAY at least three hours, of course... and still...).

they train hard and right, but their techniques are also reputed for their simple and powerful techniques. their roundhouse kick is the most famous example and is something they train hard at. the black belted jujutsuka will be in big trouble if he can't block them. their knees and elbows are also something that the jujutska should be worried about, especially if they are used in a clinch.

Originally posted by Akka
Well, as I already said about pressure points : they are good for masters, but there is much easier and more efficient way to deal damages than them
And ninjutsu artists are supposed to rely on stealth, surprise and silence to kill their opponent. A ring is not really the best place to do so ^^

good for master against relaxed persons that are standing still, maybe.

ninjutsu has a lot of striking, grappling, weapon forms, etc. they do more than playing ninja turtles.

safta is fighting system a system developed for the navy seals, but it sucked as well.

Originally posted by Akka
Most of these martial arts have not lost any of their power. Sure, the kendo and others based on swords are less useful today, where you don't usually walk around with a blade, but for the barehanded ones, there is nothing today that is different that in their times, except that humans are a bit taller and bigger. You still can be attacked by two people, one in front and one in rear, and the stranglings of today just do as much harm as the ones two centuries ago.

the gracie family remade and modernized jiu-jitsu into brazilian or gracie jiu-jitsu, which has proven itself working better than traditional jiu-jitsu many times. mas oyama remade and modernized karate into kyokushin, which has proven itself working better than traditional karate many times. how could they fix something that wasn't broken?

 

[superunknown]

There is a Kung Fu club just a few blocks away from where I live. They train Binh Dinh Kung Fu, its vietnamese and looks pretty cool.
I not sure I can resist the urge to start training it, since its only takes a couple of minutes to get there and also its good to cross-train. As it is I have to get my sorry ass to the other side of the city to train TKD.

@animepornstar: om du har Viasat Sport, missa inte K-1 från Solnahallen ikväll kl 23.

 

[animepornstar]

Originally posted by superunknown
@animepornstar: om du har Viasat Sport, missa inte K-1 från Solnahallen ikväll kl 23.

i don't have viasat, but i hope it will be possible to find it at direct connect tomorrow.

 

[Akka]

Originally posted by animepornstar
i think boxers are able to strike to the temple, chin, throat, solar plexus and the liver if opportunity is given. why shouldn't they. they do also master the basics and the basics is what you win most fights with.

They are used to wear glove. Hence so they don't use the fingers, the edge of the hand or the knuckles edge. They are also not used to aim for the throat or groin.

that wood stick braking is actually a kyokushin thing, but i haven't experienced it, yet... i don't think it common nowadays.

It's not exactly good for the health in long term, and it's not exactly pleasant to do. I suppose it explains why it's not widely used ^^

i've seen people that has gotten confused by axe kicks, but those are not exactly fast.

What do you mean with axe kick ?

anyway, if someone did a fast, flashy kick in my dojo would his opponent do like muay thai guy in the clip at the second page, kick him hard or sweep him before he have returned to his stance.

Well, if he's able to strike back before the foe has regained his stance, it means that either he avoided the kick, either he took it and did not even feel the hit. So, it's only if the kick has failed (or if he's indestructible).

that is another benefit with powerful roundhouse kicks. the opponent has put a large mount of work behind his block if he doesn't want to get wrecked and at the same time is the returning mechanism of the roundhouse better than in any other mid- or high kick i know. you will be standing well protected before your opponent can counter.

That's why I prefer to avoid (or to counter before the kick is launched, but that's clearly above my actual level for now).

you can block them with your shins and a blocked low kick hurts more for the kicker than for the blocker. you can also avoid them if you are standing in the right distance.

That requires you have very hard shins or are very resilient to pain.
As I'm neither, I prefer to avoid or to deflect

you don't want to kick their knees because hitting a kneecap with your shin isn't a pleasant experience. there is a area (i think it's a nerve there) just a little bit above the knee that is great to hit though.

I was talking about hitting the knees laterally (with a circular kick). If I'm about to kick the kneecap, I'd rather use a direct kick, to hit the knee with either the heel either with the sole of the foot. I'm not suicidal

don't underrate kicks to the thigh because it hurts A LOT more than most people think. just try to beat or elbow yourself there now while you are sitting in your chair infront of your computer and read this . the pain makes people moving around more slowly and more worried about getting hit there again. the shock from getting hit in the thigh can even make people dropping their guards.

I don't underrate them, but as the knee is just in the same area, I'd rather go for it. If the blow lands, it has a lot of chance of breaking the leg, and it will at least make the guy fall.

yes, that works if you have the right timing and is willing to take some punishment.

Right timing and a good opportunity. The goal is precisely to NOT take up any punishment ^^
Of course, if someone doesn't wait for, or creates himself, a good opportunity, he's about to take a lot of punishment (particularly against sparring arts)

i must confess that i've never really seen any experienced jujutsu practitioner fighting and no one seems to using it in ultimate fighting or pride for some reason. i can neither remember that iv'eseen any bjj guy tryining to punch his opponent out at the ground.

Can't help you on this one, I'm not very interested in competition.

if that technique isn't effective to score points with...

I'm not talking about the sport/competition-oriented martial arts. I'm talking only about the traditionnal ones, where the important point was to stay alive in the best shape possible, and not score points.

muay thai does seldom use or even train side kicks, while it's a very popular kick in most kung fu styles. the thais just think it's not usefull and effective enough, because their ring experience tells them so. this is an example of how muay thai sticks to the simple and effective.

full contact arts are like evolution. if someone change his technique a little bit and this technique becomes better than other techniques, it will give him success in the ring and he his reputation will raise. when he later retires and start teaching, his reputation will give him students and the good techniques will be passed on to his students.

in other arts is there a chance that things will work in the other direction. someone makes his techniques looking better or better at giving point, but not necessarily more powerful, and get higher reputation that way. like what happened to tkd when it went olympic.

Don't forget one thing : traditionnal martial arts were made with the goal of "staying alive", whatever the situation. They were not designed for duel on a ring.
There is several moves that are made by supposing you are surprised, or you are attacked by several opponents, or that the opponent has a weapon and you don't, etc. There is also many techniques that are better againt a taller foe, or a smaller, or should be used if you are tired, and there is several others that are not often practised, because they require you to be in full form (the rear circular high kick for example, that you should never try when you did not made some warm up movement ^^).

So, many moves, techniques and so on that can look useless in a ring, against one opponent, can anyway be very useful in other circumstances.

they train hard and right, but their techniques are also reputed for their simple and powerful techniques. their roundhouse kick is the most famous example and is something they train hard at. the black belted jujutsuka will be in big trouble if he can't block them. their knees and elbows are also something that the jujutska should be worried about, especially if they are used in a clinch.

I don't say their techniques are less than superb. I just say that pretending a beginner in an art can beat a black belt in another just because his art is "superior" is a delusion

good for master against relaxed persons that are standing still, maybe.

Well, can be useful when you try to eliminate a guard with discretion

ninjutsu has a lot of striking, grappling, weapon forms, etc. they do more than playing ninja turtles.

safta is fighting system a system developed for the navy seals, but it sucked as well.


the gracie family remade and modernized jiu-jitsu into brazilian or gracie jiu-jitsu, which has proven itself working better than traditional jiu-jitsu many times. mas oyama remade and modernized karate into kyokushin, which has proven itself working better than traditional karate many times. how could they fix something that wasn't broken?

They did not "fix" it. They expanded it, by emphasizing new areas and adding their own techniques. That's how the martial arts developped themselves, by taking a basis and letting the master altering it

 

[superunknown]

I just saw the K-1 Scandinavia tournament. Man, that was some good fighting.
Those Muay Thai guys really are powerful!

In the final one of the guys got a kick in the head and passed out.

 

[animepornstar]

Originally posted by Akka

They are used to wear glove. Hence so they don't use the fingers, the edge of the hand or the knuckles edge. They are also not used to aim for the throat or groin.

lol, i've seen boxing bouts were boxers have punched each other in the groin. it looked quite funny... boxers learn to keep their chin down, partly to protect their throat and partly because it helps the neck muscles to absorbe a punch, but they will probably notice if someone don't do it.

strikes to points that are difficult reach, like groin and the throat, might win 1 fight out of 10 for you, but the one with the best basic striking will win the remaining 9.

Originally posted by Akka
What do you mean with axe kick ?

ax kick:

Originally posted by Akka
Well, if he's able to strike back before the foe has regained his stance, it means that either he avoided the kick, either he took it and did not even feel the hit. So, it's only if the kick has failed (or if he's indestructible).

i don't know the name of the kick, but when you raise your front leg and rotate your body so it becomes a high roundhouse. this kick is easy to counter for example, if you a used to kicks that are hard and have a faster returning mechanism. the mt vs tkd clip shows exactly what happens if you don't do your kicks hard. it's really easy to see it 0:30 into the clip.

Originally posted by Akka
That requires you have very hard shins or are very resilient to pain.
As I'm neither, I prefer to avoid or to deflect

if you have a heavy bag that reachs almost to the floor in your dojo ís kicking it low a great way to improve your shins.

a low kicks is going a bit downwards before the impact, so deflecting is not a good idea.

Originally posted by Akka
I was talking about hitting the knees laterally (with a circular kick). If I'm about to kick the kneecap, I'd rather use a direct kick, to hit the knee with either the heel either with the sole of the foot. I'm not suicidal

I don't underrate them, but as the knee is just in the same area, I'd rather go for it. If the blow lands, it has a lot of chance of breaking the leg, and it will at least make the guy fall.

i do honestly have problems to imaging what this kick is like. what part of the leg would you hit with and what bone would he brake or would his joint separate?

Originally posted by Akka
Right timing and a good opportunity. The goal is precisely to NOT take up any punishment ^^
Of course, if someone doesn't wait for, or creates himself, a good opportunity, he's about to take a lot of punishment (particularly against sparring arts)

i meant that you have to take some punishment before you have grabbed him, but it's well worth it if you get him.

Originally posted by Akka
I'm not talking about the sport/competition-oriented martial arts. I'm talking only about the traditionnal ones, where the important point was to stay alive in the best shape possible, and not score points.

Don't forget one thing : traditionnal martial arts were made with the goal of "staying alive", whatever the situation. They were not designed for duel on a ring.
There is several moves that are made by supposing you are surprised, or you are attacked by several opponents, or that the opponent has a weapon and you don't, etc. There is also many techniques that are better againt a taller foe, or a smaller, or should be used if you are tired, and there is several others that are not often practised, because they require you to be in full form (the rear circular high kick for example, that you should never try when you did not made some warm up movement ^^).

So, many moves, techniques and so on that can look useless in a ring, against one opponent, can anyway be very useful in other circumstances.

in kyokushin we learns some traditional techniques and katas, but without full-contact (which i believe that the founders of the old martial arts did) are those techniques dancing.

would you advice a woman who is afraid of getting raped to take courses in a stand up martial art without full-contact sparring? i would not.

Originally posted by Akka
I don't say their techniques are less than superb. I just say that pretending a beginner in an art can beat a black belt in another just because his art is "superior" is a delusion

i say that you should check it out yourself, like superunknown did in a way.

Originally posted by Akka
Well, can be useful when you try to eliminate a guard with discretion

i knowthere are points at the arm that which hurts i you press your fingers in them when there arm is relaxed, but are there any scientifical evidence for that the dim mak excists?

Originally posted by Akka
They did not "fix" it. They expanded it, by emphasizing new areas and adding their own techniques. That's how the martial arts developped themselves, by taking a basis and letting the master altering it

many kyokushin techniques are very different to the traditional techniques, like the roundhouse kick for example. i can't see in which way a traditional roundhouse a could be better than, or even close to equal good as, a kyokushin one and if the roundhouse is that flawed, why shouldn't the other techniques of karate be it?

 

[Akka]

Originally posted by animepornstar
lol, i've seen boxing bouts were boxers have punched each other in the groin. it looked quite funny... boxers learn to keep their chin down, partly to protect their throat and partly because it helps the neck muscles to absorbe a punch, but they will probably notice if someone don't do it.

Even without any training nor practice, I can still punch in a fight. They CAN hit in "restricted areas", but they are not USED to, and haven't learned to chain strikes which include them.

strikes to points that are difficult reach, like groin and the throat, might win 1 fight out of 10 for you, but the one with the best basic striking will win the remaining 9.

Difficult to reach ? Not that much, trust me
And knowing to hit the difficult part does not mean we don't learn the basic striking too.

ax kick:

Wow.
You better be supple and warmed up to do these kind of kick

i don't know the name of the kick, but when you raise your front leg and rotate your body so it becomes a high roundhouse. this kick is easy to counter for example, if you a used to kicks that are hard and have a faster returning mechanism. the mt vs tkd clip shows exactly what happens if you don't do your kicks hard. it's really easy to see it 0:30 into the clip.

There is times in martial art discussions, where you would like to be able to see the person you're talking about, so he can shows you some movement rather than describing them
It's really confusing when you try to explain some small differences between two kicks ^^

if you have a heavy bag that reachs almost to the floor in your dojo ís kicking it low a great way to improve your shins.

Mmh I'm afraid that punching-balls are a bit too soft to harden a shin. Well, anyway I plan to get one in my flat so I can practise my strikes at home, so I'll see ^^

a low kicks is going a bit downwards before the impact, so deflecting is not a good idea.

Not a hard deflect, sure. I was thinking rather of a "soft" deflect, when you lift your leg a bit and let it "float", so the lateral hit touch it but does not hurt it (I'm doing a horrible job describing it, I hope you can see what I mean).

i do honestly have problems to imaging what this kick is like. what part of the leg would you hit with and what bone would he brake or would his joint separate?

Well, it's just a circular kick but aiming at the legs. The goal is to hit the knee laterally, and if done correctly, it dislocate the articulation.

i meant that you have to take some punishment before you have grabbed him, but it's well worth it if you get him.

Depends if you used correctly a good opportunity or not. The idea is to avoid taking punishment (but the opponent doesn't always give you the choice ).

in kyokushin we learns some traditional techniques and katas, but without full-contact (which i believe that the founders of the old martial arts did) are those techniques dancing.

Yup, I never was really into kata that much.
Hopefully, the spirit of my dojo is the same, so we do learn only the most basics of kata - we just have to learn one for the first dan.

would you advice a woman who is afraid of getting raped to take courses in a stand up martial art without full-contact sparring? i would not.

I would rather help her working on her mental. You're a lot less subject to attack when you show confidence and does not hesitate to kick on the groin or to rip a face with your nails.
Training without full-contact is like when soldiers train without real bullets : you learn slower, but you can come back in one piece to learn more, and you still have learned something
(it's a bit exagerrated, but the idea is here)

i say that you should check it out yourself, like superunknown did in a way.

If the guy has really six months of experience with and no more, with the same intensity of practice as me, has about the same physical fitness as me, and I'm a black belt, I'm quite confident about it.
I already saw many people with six month of experience.
Either they already trained in another martial art, either it's obvious they are beginners.

i knowthere are points at the arm that which hurts i you press your fingers in them when there arm is relaxed, but are there any scientifical evidence for that the dim mak excists?

Dim mak ?

many kyokushin techniques are very different to the traditional techniques, like the roundhouse kick for example. i can't see in which way a traditional roundhouse a could be better than, or even close to equal good as, a kyokushin one and if the roundhouse is that flawed, why shouldn't the other techniques of karate be it?

Don't know, but I can see several possible reasons :
- difference in size and weight for the artists.
- difference in size and weight for the standard opponent (it's particularly obvious for some grappling techniques, which are more or less efficient given the size of your foe. As Japanese were quite short in the past and the average size of people is quite bigger now...)
- personnal preferences of the master of the art (that his students learn because he's the master, and they transmit it to others and so on, making a particular moves widespread).
- situations that are not the same.
- well, the previous kick was weaker, but tradition kept it alive. The new is better. I'm not really convinced, but it's possible

I would have to see and try myself the two kicks, to have even the slightest idea about it. But I saw several techniques that seemed stupid/inefficient, and I could not understand their point, and each time our sensei explained us "in this situation, it's good. In this one it's not." or "against this kind of opponent, you should/shouldn't use it", so I'm much more cautious about saying a move is bad now ^^

 

[animepornstar]

Originally posted by Akka

Even without any training nor practice, I can still punch in a fight. They CAN hit in "restricted areas", but they are not USED to, and haven't learned to chain strikes which include them.

chain striking is really cool, but it does only work if the other fighter is too unexperienced to sidestep or if you stun him really hard with your first hit. boxers have something more powerful than chain striking though: combos.

Originally posted by Akka
Difficult to reach ? Not that much, trust me
And knowing to hit the difficult part does not mean we don't learn the basic striking too.

have you tried it in fights? to hit an opponent, which keeps his chin down and is moving, in the by the guard best protected area requires a lot of skills and speed to set up. the groin strike will leave you with only one arm to protect your upper body with and you don't know how the opponent will react by the hit.

everyone can punch, but to make those punches land and do damage you have to know how, when and where to do it which you only can learn through training punching supervised by someone who has a lot of experience of punching and also do some sparring to try the techniques out.

Originally posted by Akka
There is times in martial art discussions, where you would like to be able to see the person you're talking about, so he can shows you some movement rather than describing them
It's really confusing when you try to explain some small differences between two kicks ^^

imaging a high roundhouse done with the front leg instead of the rear leg.

Originally posted by Akka
Mmh I'm afraid that punching-balls are a bit too soft to harden a shin. Well, anyway I plan to get one in my flat so I can practise my strikes at home, so I'll see ^^

this is the kind of heavy bag i'm talking about. they do almost reach the floor and are quite hard in the bottom. in thailand did they use to fill them with sand but do nowadays have softer material in them.

Originally posted by Akka
Not a hard deflect, sure. I was thinking rather of a "soft" deflect, when you lift your leg a bit and let it "float", so the lateral hit touch it but does not hurt it (I'm doing a horrible job describing it, I hope you can see what I mean).

the lowkick is done like it is supposed to hit through the target and it hits the thigh a bit to the side. once again can you test it on yourself by trying to deflect a fist or palm.

Originally posted by Akka
Well, it's just a circular kick but aiming at the legs. The goal is to hit the knee laterally, and if done correctly, it dislocate the articulation.

i don't know how your fighting stance looks like but i can't see how hitting the knee, without hitting kneecap, with an circular kick to the outside could be possible, unless you have shoes and hit with the toes. it would work with a kick to the inside of the leg, but with an angle that couldn't hurt the knee.

Originally posted by Akka
Depends if you used correctly a good opportunity or not. The idea is to avoid taking punishment (but the opponent doesn't always give you the choice ).

if you grab his leg after the punch you have a great takedown opportunity, otherwise can he jump back or get you in a clinch that benefits him more than you.

Originally posted by Akka
I would rather help her working on her mental. You're a lot less subject to attack when you show confidence and does not hesitate to kick on the groin or to rip a face with your nails.
Training without full-contact is like when soldiers train without real bullets : you learn slower, but you can come back in one piece to learn more, and you still have learned something
(it's a bit exagerrated, but the idea is here)

but don't you think soldiers that have been training by shooting at each other with lasertools would do better in combat? a clear difference is that with weapon is a hit a hit. in fighting can a weak hit get your own arm broken by an armbar.

Originally posted by Akka
If the guy has really six months of experience with and no more, with the same intensity of practice as me, has about the same physical fitness as me, and I'm a black belt, I'm quite confident about it.
I already saw many people with six month of experience.
Either they already trained in another martial art, either it's obvious they are beginners.

i assume that the muay thai guy train three-four times per week. then should he have learned enough to start sparring after three month and trains four-five times per week the next three month. he should be well prepared for the fight and he should also have learned a lot from meeting and seeing experienced fighter while sparring.

knowledge from other martial arts would probably not help him, because they have given him bad habits he must get rid of.

Originally posted by Akka
Dim mak ?

it's deadly striking points. search google for better info.

Originally posted by Akka
Don't know, but I can see several possible reasons :
- difference in size and weight for the artists.
- difference in size and weight for the standard opponent (it's particularly obvious for some grappling techniques, which are more or less efficient given the size of your foe. As Japanese were quite short in the past and the average size of people is quite bigger now...)
- personnal preferences of the master of the art (that his students learn because he's the master, and they transmit it to others and so on, making a particular moves widespread).
- situations that are not the same.
- well, the previous kick was weaker, but tradition kept it alive. The new is better. I'm not really convinced, but it's possible

another reason could be that it works well against fighters that use the same techniques. wing chun, for example, has almost all techniques in a certain range, the trapping range which is between the kicking/punching range and the elbow/kneeing/clinching range. when a two wing chun practitioners are fighting they are both stay in that range and the fighting looks good and powerful, but a practitioner of another art who meets a wing chun guy will avoid that range and then are the wing chun guy i trouble. so the karate technique could have worked when they met each other and they did therefore believe that they were good.

Originally posted by Akka
I would have to see and try myself the two kicks, to have even the slightest idea about it. But I saw several techniques that seemed stupid/inefficient, and I could not understand their point, and each time our sensei explained us "in this situation, it's good. In this one it's not." or "against this kind of opponent, you should/shouldn't use it", so I'm much more cautious about saying a move is bad now ^^

i posted pics with the kicks a couple of pages ago.

this is a little bit different for arts that are striking only because we can only prepare for the hardest unarmed opponent possible. i should really need some groundwork actually.