ClassicThunder
Prince
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Tronaught? Where does that come from as I've never heard of it before? Neat name though.
Alagaesia TC
- Thread starter ClassicThunder
- Start date
lshockley
Warlord
@Crezth - I like your ideas about the civics! Currently we are working on getting all of the mod aspects functional and playable, and then we will be tweaking to further "Alagaesize" the mod. But, your feedback is much appreciated - perhaps you would like to join us in brainstroming? Classic Thunder has a lot of ideas he is working on roughing out!
@strategyonly - Nice map! Thank you for sharing your handiwork. ps.. hi!
@Classic Thunder - How about making the Entling an Elvish guard of sorts? Maybe he can be a UU for the elves. Along the idea of the blood-oath celebration, maybe you can find an Elvish name for him in that chapter of the book. Perhaps one of the tree elves introduced themselves by name?
I don't think either Ent or dryad is appropriate. If I remember my greek mythology correctly, I think all dryads are female - he looks more like a he to me.
-Laina
@strategyonly - Nice map! Thank you for sharing your handiwork. ps.. hi!
@Classic Thunder - How about making the Entling an Elvish guard of sorts? Maybe he can be a UU for the elves. Along the idea of the blood-oath celebration, maybe you can find an Elvish name for him in that chapter of the book. Perhaps one of the tree elves introduced themselves by name?
I don't think either Ent or dryad is appropriate. If I remember my greek mythology correctly, I think all dryads are female - he looks more like a he to me.
-Laina
ClassicThunder
Prince
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Thanks woodelf but I'm kind of stuck trying to find art for leader heads. Google isn't helping much and I not into any art rings. Any suggestions in finding good leader head art. I mainly need elves and dwarfs at the moment.
Before I would let something like this "stick" me I'd borrow some from elsewhere as placeholders. There's some static ones from Civ3 that could be used I think (not sure if they can or not), haarbal's fantasy pack for FFH1 that used AoW static heads worked in Civ4, and then there is the WH mod and FFH2 for now. I'd go with haarbal's for now since they aren't being used.
edit - haarbal's link is DOA. Maybe someone has it? I'll look around if you want it.
ClassicThunder
Prince
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Thanks I'd appreciate that. And good advice even though borrowing from other mods goes against my grain.
ClassicThunder
Prince
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Still don't like it. But we need more leaders so 6 people isn't the max before there are two Aryas or Broms.
lshockley
Warlord
Regarding more leaders, did you see the suggestion I sent you via email? My computer was in a bad mood that day - so I'll post 'em just in case:
May I suggest Islanzadi as a leader for the elves, and Nar Garzhvof as an Urgal leader. Do you plan to add Surda as a civ? And, I was thinking maybe a rider civ, with Oromis and Eragon as leaders.
And, just an update: I've been working hard on the diplomacy xml - I reworked DiplomacyInfos and set up much more leader-specific custom text than existed in vanilla. I think you will like it... I have one more (Brom) to add, then I need to check the code.
Finally - which leaders do you need leaderheads for?
-Laina
May I suggest Islanzadi as a leader for the elves, and Nar Garzhvof as an Urgal leader. Do you plan to add Surda as a civ? And, I was thinking maybe a rider civ, with Oromis and Eragon as leaders.
And, just an update: I've been working hard on the diplomacy xml - I reworked DiplomacyInfos and set up much more leader-specific custom text than existed in vanilla. I think you will like it... I have one more (Brom) to add, then I need to check the code.
Finally - which leaders do you need leaderheads for?
-Laina
ClassicThunder
Prince
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Here's what I have so far for the leaders:
Civilization: Leader1; Leader2
Any one in brakes is on my to do list.
Urgals: Nar Garzhvof; Durza
Dwarves: Hrothgar; Eccentric; (Orin)
Riders: Eragon; Vrael
Empire: Galbatorix
Elves: Arya; Islanzadi
Surda: Orrin
Varden: Brom; Ajihad; Nasuada
I plan to make another civilization for the Eccentric dwarves that aren't part of the Varden, which will of course result in the elimination of the Eccentric dwarf leader. Also for additional civilizations I was thinking of having an elf civ that split of from the main elves and are a bit darker and more evil. I might also do this with the dwarves.
Currently for everyone not in brackets I have a leader head. I also have one for Orik. However thier borrowed from FFH2 so if anyone has some replacements tell me and I'll be glad to use them.
@lshockley
I got your E-Mail and haven't had the time to E-Mail back yet though I noticed you finished the diplomacy texts. I'll load up the mod later with them after school and take a look. I'm sure you did a great job though.
Civilization: Leader1; Leader2
Any one in brakes is on my to do list.
Urgals: Nar Garzhvof; Durza
Dwarves: Hrothgar; Eccentric; (Orin)
Riders: Eragon; Vrael
Empire: Galbatorix
Elves: Arya; Islanzadi
Surda: Orrin
Varden: Brom; Ajihad; Nasuada
I plan to make another civilization for the Eccentric dwarves that aren't part of the Varden, which will of course result in the elimination of the Eccentric dwarf leader. Also for additional civilizations I was thinking of having an elf civ that split of from the main elves and are a bit darker and more evil. I might also do this with the dwarves.
Currently for everyone not in brackets I have a leader head. I also have one for Orik. However thier borrowed from FFH2 so if anyone has some replacements tell me and I'll be glad to use them.
@lshockley
I got your E-Mail and haven't had the time to E-Mail back yet though I noticed you finished the diplomacy texts. I'll load up the mod later with them after school and take a look. I'm sure you did a great job though.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Riders as a civilization sounds a bit vague... what was the Alagaesian human settlement called before it was the Empire? We may as well go for that, but it seems to me Riders would better function as a non-playable, ever-present civ. Or, if we really wanted to break limits, we could set the Riders as a civilization which plays in each game, and is like a permanent "UN Secretary-General", which regulates all the other civs - and, of course, can be overthrown, and have anyone owning the former Rider capital being the new "UN Secretary-General." I don't know, I'm just pitching. Having them be an all-out civilization sounds a bit, well, illogical, being that they weren't anything but the governing body of Alagaesia for so long.
Or maybe forget civilizations altogether, and just have riders occur in cities as "heroes", like FFH 2's heroes (FFH2 had a lot of really good ideas and innovations).
And what of the dragons? They should have a civilization, too. Maybe a war-oriented nation which develops at an odd-paced rate, but a civilization nonetheless - how else would they carry out war and diplomacy?
Just some ideas.
@Ishockley: Thank you for the compliment and invitation, but I believe I have already made myself at home in terms of brainstorming. Hah! Well, I shall nonetheless.
Or maybe forget civilizations altogether, and just have riders occur in cities as "heroes", like FFH 2's heroes (FFH2 had a lot of really good ideas and innovations).
And what of the dragons? They should have a civilization, too. Maybe a war-oriented nation which develops at an odd-paced rate, but a civilization nonetheless - how else would they carry out war and diplomacy?
Just some ideas.
@Ishockley: Thank you for the compliment and invitation, but I believe I have already made myself at home in terms of brainstorming. Hah! Well, I shall nonetheless.
lshockley
Warlord
I was thinking about the Rider civ also - I agree that it may not be appropriate to have the Riders be a playable civ. A non-playable civ is a good way to address this.
Maybe we could create a dragon rider as a special unit that you can summon into battle. There would be a limited number of them available at the beginning of the game, and they could be killed in battle, and new ones could be born, allowing for the possibility of lots of them or none of them to be present in the game. Logistically, I'm not sure if this is doable - I know we could use unit unique names, and perhaps require a certain building to allow for random generation of new ones (dragon egg nursery?), sort of like a special great person. Maybe some sort of function could be created "Summon Dragon Rider", where if you know a dragon riders name, you could summon him or her by typing the name in a pop-up box (or in tab chat if that isn't possible). Though I don't think any one civ should be able to "control" the dragon rider - rather they can simply summon it, if it comes, control it for a 5-turn period. ??? I'm not sure, I'm sort of, uh, typing out loud here. What do you guys think?
A dragon civ is a great idea! I bet someone could come up with some really creative art for the dragon cities. Maybe they could only be founded on peaks?
@Crezth - LOL! Well, welcome to the mod team - glad to have you onboard!
-Laina
Maybe we could create a dragon rider as a special unit that you can summon into battle. There would be a limited number of them available at the beginning of the game, and they could be killed in battle, and new ones could be born, allowing for the possibility of lots of them or none of them to be present in the game. Logistically, I'm not sure if this is doable - I know we could use unit unique names, and perhaps require a certain building to allow for random generation of new ones (dragon egg nursery?), sort of like a special great person. Maybe some sort of function could be created "Summon Dragon Rider", where if you know a dragon riders name, you could summon him or her by typing the name in a pop-up box (or in tab chat if that isn't possible). Though I don't think any one civ should be able to "control" the dragon rider - rather they can simply summon it, if it comes, control it for a 5-turn period. ??? I'm not sure, I'm sort of, uh, typing out loud here. What do you guys think?
A dragon civ is a great idea! I bet someone could come up with some really creative art for the dragon cities. Maybe they could only be founded on peaks?
@Crezth - LOL! Well, welcome to the mod team - glad to have you onboard!
-Laina
lshockley
Warlord
@Classic, re: diplomacy text: I didn't do any testing, but hopefully it's a good start. I will add the other leaders you listed above!
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
I really think the Riders would make a great minor civ - or some such thing. Have them act as a minor civ, with one city, and they have diplomatic influence through some U.N-like thing. They could have the ability to grant other civilizations Rider units if they show good diplomatic sovereignty - thus providing an incentive not to be a warmonger. You have to choose - if you want to be Galbatorian and try to conquer the world, then the Rider civ won't trust you and you won't get Riders. But, if you keep a friendly, open-trade nation, then you'll get more than the former - then you can go for the world-conquering. It should be a healthy balance.
For that matter, Rider units should have a spawn rate like:
Diplomatic approval rate + Rider approval rate + Wonder rates
Then, there's extras. Eggs.
Extras would be like, well, treasure. Hearkening back to Vikings! scenario in Warlords, treasures (eggs) could appear and the whole world would be notified, and it'd give a vague description of where the egg is (far north of Ellesmera the city, say) and everyone would rush to find it, return it to, say, their capitol, and then they'd get a rider-gaining margin - a message saying "You will have a rider in 50 turns at most."
Riders should be unpredictable, and the player should have very little dictation over how they are gained, unless of course they overthrow the riders - throwing everything into chaos.
Just throwing around ideas.
As for your dragon civ input, I like the peak idea! Dragons could have access to peaks, thus enabling them to go in so many more places. But I think the peak settlements should require have access to regular hills/land (maybe even coast), so that other civs can reach them - maybe. Dragons should be elusive, but not untouchable.
For that matter, Rider units should have a spawn rate like:
Diplomatic approval rate + Rider approval rate + Wonder rates
Then, there's extras. Eggs.
Extras would be like, well, treasure. Hearkening back to Vikings! scenario in Warlords, treasures (eggs) could appear and the whole world would be notified, and it'd give a vague description of where the egg is (far north of Ellesmera the city, say) and everyone would rush to find it, return it to, say, their capitol, and then they'd get a rider-gaining margin - a message saying "You will have a rider in 50 turns at most."
Riders should be unpredictable, and the player should have very little dictation over how they are gained, unless of course they overthrow the riders - throwing everything into chaos.
Just throwing around ideas.
As for your dragon civ input, I like the peak idea! Dragons could have access to peaks, thus enabling them to go in so many more places. But I think the peak settlements should require have access to regular hills/land (maybe even coast), so that other civs can reach them - maybe. Dragons should be elusive, but not untouchable.
lshockley
Warlord
I think those are great ideas for the Rider civ, and much easier to implement than mine. However, I do have one concern: if we allow the computer to control the dragon rider civ, I'm worried it will behave just like every other civ. Though we can change the civ's "personality" with the existing XML, we really can't change its behavior. I like the idea of a unit because a human player can control it temporarily with a limited menu of options.
However, I think the minor civ suggestion is much easier to implement than my far-fetched special hybrid unit idea. I think only testing will allow us to determine if we can successfully get the AI to behave in the manner we are envisioning.
What do you think, ClassicThunder?
I like the idea of a dragon egg hunt! That would add an interesting twist to the mod. Maybe certain civics or buildings keep the egg from hatching, or accelerate the hatch rate?
As I'm thinking more on dragon cities on peaks, I think the way to do it would be to make peaks passable terrain. That would enable trading, as then roads and coastal waters would convey trade routes. But, I think peak-building should be limited to the Dragon civ. The peak should provide the city a large defensive bonus, say +50%. Eh?
-Laina
However, I think the minor civ suggestion is much easier to implement than my far-fetched special hybrid unit idea. I think only testing will allow us to determine if we can successfully get the AI to behave in the manner we are envisioning.
What do you think, ClassicThunder?
I like the idea of a dragon egg hunt! That would add an interesting twist to the mod. Maybe certain civics or buildings keep the egg from hatching, or accelerate the hatch rate?
As I'm thinking more on dragon cities on peaks, I think the way to do it would be to make peaks passable terrain. That would enable trading, as then roads and coastal waters would convey trade routes. But, I think peak-building should be limited to the Dragon civ. The peak should provide the city a large defensive bonus, say +50%. Eh?
-Laina
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
I think all the rider civ needs to do is be congenial. It can't declare war, but it can persuade other civs to, and it can fight back, but in terms of personality the civ should be out of the way and vain. Remember, the riders can become corrupt - the rider civ shouldn't be exempt.
Perhaps after a period of time, the civ does become "corrupt" - i.e., demanding more, being less genial, trying to persuade civs into war, and thus the regular civs will be more inclined to war on them, to "purify" the riders.
Peaks as passable terrain? Mmm, I'm not entirely sure. Maybe peaks become passable only if units are in the same stack as a certain other units. Like, you have to train a civ-specific sherpa-like unit to guide you into the mountains to deal with the dragons.
You can't trade with the dragons, but you can send sherpas up there for trade deals. Example: Send sherpa to dragon city, sherpa gets a promotion "Goods." Sherpa can go back to home city. "Goods" then gives you gold, or improves city's culture, or even (rarely) an egg. Sherpa can be jumped by other civs, and if a sherpa with "goods" is beaten, the beater gets "Goods."
I say sherpa because that's the first thing that comes to mind. Sorry if I offend anyone - I mean not to.
Perhaps after a period of time, the civ does become "corrupt" - i.e., demanding more, being less genial, trying to persuade civs into war, and thus the regular civs will be more inclined to war on them, to "purify" the riders.
Peaks as passable terrain? Mmm, I'm not entirely sure. Maybe peaks become passable only if units are in the same stack as a certain other units. Like, you have to train a civ-specific sherpa-like unit to guide you into the mountains to deal with the dragons.
You can't trade with the dragons, but you can send sherpas up there for trade deals. Example: Send sherpa to dragon city, sherpa gets a promotion "Goods." Sherpa can go back to home city. "Goods" then gives you gold, or improves city's culture, or even (rarely) an egg. Sherpa can be jumped by other civs, and if a sherpa with "goods" is beaten, the beater gets "Goods."
I say sherpa because that's the first thing that comes to mind. Sorry if I offend anyone - I mean not to.
ClassicThunder
Prince
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Gee wiz people I'm away from my computer for about two days and now I feel like I'm in the dark ages. Anyways excellent brainstorming.
@ Crezth
By "Officially" joining the team you can have access to the files we've set up so far.
About the dragon egg hunt that would be very easy to do. However, I'm not sure about making the peaks passable. However, so far the dragons are basically barbarians. I'm probably going to leave them that way as they killed elves, dwarfs, and humans through history. I'm hoping the dragons will be a serious threat for any civilization.
As they were a civilization in the book I was planning to have the Riders as a civilization in the game; however, you all are convincing me other wise. Any ways we still need a few more civilizations and leaders. Any suggestions??
@ Crezth
By "Officially" joining the team you can have access to the files we've set up so far.
About the dragon egg hunt that would be very easy to do. However, I'm not sure about making the peaks passable. However, so far the dragons are basically barbarians. I'm probably going to leave them that way as they killed elves, dwarfs, and humans through history. I'm hoping the dragons will be a serious threat for any civilization.
As they were a civilization in the book I was planning to have the Riders as a civilization in the game; however, you all are convincing me other wise. Any ways we still need a few more civilizations and leaders. Any suggestions??
ClassicThunder
Prince
- Joined
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I'm starting to think release. Not now, but in the near future. However, I need beta testers. These beta testers will need to keep an eye out for things such as too small tech trees, overpowered units, glitches, and any thing else that could degrade the Alagaesia Total Conversion playing experience. So is any one willing to test??
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
I appreciate your acknowledgement, TC.
As for Riders as a civ, they weren't really a civ per se in the book, so much as a loose cannon international police corps. That's why I think the minor civ thing would be good for them.
Dragons as barbarians would work just as well, anyway.
On civilizations, I think this is as much as we can muster. Unless we want to be specific, we could narrow civs to include Carvahall, and the desert nomads, but we don't really know much about them; the third book will hopefully reveal more for us to work with. On that note, should we wait for the third book to release this? Right now it seems as though we'd be very barebones, unless we utilize our creative license.
As for Riders as a civ, they weren't really a civ per se in the book, so much as a loose cannon international police corps. That's why I think the minor civ thing would be good for them.
Dragons as barbarians would work just as well, anyway.
On civilizations, I think this is as much as we can muster. Unless we want to be specific, we could narrow civs to include Carvahall, and the desert nomads, but we don't really know much about them; the third book will hopefully reveal more for us to work with. On that note, should we wait for the third book to release this? Right now it seems as though we'd be very barebones, unless we utilize our creative license.
lshockley
Warlord
What about a "magicians" civ? This is certainly departing from the books' story line, but I think it could be interesting. Regarding a leader - I have no idea.
Has a release date been announced for the 3rd book? If not, I'd say let's just go ahead and release it. We can always update it whenever the 3rd book is out. Release would allow community members to test it, and give us feedback, and possibly even expand the mod team. Although I think it needs to be playable and balanced before release. So we still need some beta testing first.
-Laina
Has a release date been announced for the 3rd book? If not, I'd say let's just go ahead and release it. We can always update it whenever the 3rd book is out. Release would allow community members to test it, and give us feedback, and possibly even expand the mod team. Although I think it needs to be playable and balanced before release. So we still need some beta testing first.
-Laina
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