Almost Newbie proposes PTW PBEM Alpha

[Yakodi]

This game was dead because of technical problems.

If these technical problems would not exist the Iroquois would become victims of the mighty English Empire and probably the Chinese too.

So I always thought ending this game was the best solution.
The question once again is: what do you want to prove in reviving it?
Even if there is a guarantee of no war what should be interesting for a replacement player in this situation?

You never asked me if I'm prepared to play in the new situation. You wanted to know if the corruption appears too when going back and trying to do some things another way. And I told you that I think that it always will appear when the game is continued the way of war because I can't play it without destroying my resources in this case.
And that's just the reason why you try to make a new game without the English going to war and replacing the uncomfortable Iroquois commander. In my eyes this is a little bit strange, especially because we had a discussion about going back just when the English Assault happend. And there was a consent that going back is no option.

 

[bathsheba666]

This game was dead because of technical problems.

Not necessarily. One option was to go back to before the corruption occurred, and replay it.
Two of the four players were willing to try this.

If these technical problems would not exist the Iroquois would become victims of the mighty English Empire and probably the Chinese too.

Iroquois probably, yes, since they were unwilling to negotiate for peace.
However, I did not feel it was necessary to take out China.
In fact I offered them a deal to split Iroquois cities between us.

So I always thought ending this game was the best solution.

Well, I can see this would be an Iroquois view .
But there are other players to think about.

The question once again is: what do you want to prove in reviving it?

Perhaps I'm hung up on this completion thing.
Perhaps I'm sentimental about the first pbem I started.
Perhaps the real question is, why are you so keen to stop it?

Even if there is a guarantee of no war what should be interesting for a replacement player in this situation?

I really think that is a question for the replacement players, don't you?
And some players would find no war uninteresting.

You never asked me if I'm prepared to play in the new situation.

Not completely true. As soon as I made the original attack, I attempted to withdraw it.
You and CivNut were against this, so I played on.
I paid you the courtesy of assuming your viewpoint would be consistent,
and that you would therefore not be interested now either.

You wanted to know if the corruption appears too when going back and trying to do some things another way. And I told you that I think that it always will appear when the game is continued the way of war because I can't play it without destroying my resources in this case.

Yes, but Greybeard and I were willing to try it again.

And that's just the reason why you try to make a new game without the English going to war and replacing the uncomfortable Iroquois commander. In my eyes this is a little bit strange, especially because we had a discussion about going back just when the English Assault happend. And there was a consent that going back is no option.

Your perspective on this is wrong.
Here is the correct perspective.

I asked all four players who was interested in continuing?.
Greybeard and I wanted to continue.
You and CivNut pulled out.

OK,
so PTW Alpha now belongs to the remaining players, Greybeard and myself.
We can discuss options and agree whatever we like as to how we continue.
We did this.

I gave Greybeard two possible options for continuing, and asked him for others.
This is the option we decided to take.

(The other option, in case you are interested,
was to erase all the Iroquois cities I had approached,
and gift the remainder to the Chinese.
Thereby achieving the outcome we would have reached in the first game.
That is still an option - depending on takers)

So your idea about what should be allowed was no longer relevant, once you were out, as you said you were.
The idea that you can leave a game, then dictate to those remaining how to proceed, is not one I share.

So, from reading a number of your postings,
I agree with your thought that, for you as Iroquois, ending the game is the best solution.
But I intend to try to continue.

 

[bathsheba666]

One further point.

I hope this should clarify things. As an experiment, try thinking of it this way.

The old PTW Alpha is dead, so forget it.

However, there is an extremely similar game advertising right now for players who are keen to play on from a similar position - in this very thread, as it happens.

There are China, Iroquois, or a combination of the two.

Now, do you want to take part and make it happen?
Normally on these things it is first come, first served.
So there is nothing stopping you from doing this, if you actually want to.

You never asked me if I'm prepared to play in the new situation.

So, if you want to join in that's absolutely fine by me/us. We would like that to happen.

But, if you want to explain to me why we can't do this, then you won't hear from me again on this topic.

 

[Yakodi]

No, I don't want to explain to you that you can't do this because I can not prevent you from this. Just like the poor Iroquois couldn't ...

But you're right that I'm trying to explain you something: What are you doing?

Please show me the point where I left the game!
I always played my turns. But I liked to play them my way and that ment that I was trying to destroy every Iroquois things before you could conquer them. So you had to fight a war without any rewards and meanwhile the Chinese and especially the Mongols could develop in peace and this way being better prepared for what would follow the finally end of the Iroquois.

I couldn't continue doing this because of the technical problems. But I made several experiments to save the game.

Then it was you who left this game, and who left other games at the same point!
And because of this leaving in combination with the existing technical problems the game slept in.

And now you're back ...

 

[bathsheba666]

So, to be honest, I have to say I'm not very much interested in continuing this game.
......
I think we shouldn't give PTW another chance because of this bug.

This was your withdrawal from the game.

Unless it has lost something in translation this means, in polite English:
'I don't want to continue and please don't ask me to'

The way you were fighting your war was acknowledged in the second option Greybeard and I had for continuing:
Namely, the razing of a number of Iroquois cities, and the gifting of the remainder to China.
That would be the obvious option for continuing if we end up with only three players.

So, having myself been accused of not answering questions, I have to say that I still have no idea of your intentions.
That is, I have several ideas, but not a clue which is the nearest to being correct.

btw. I left other games by finding a replacement for myself when it was my turn.
In Alpha, it never got round to being my turn again.

This thread is getting spammy...

 

[bathsheba666]

These are the final messages from the glorious Iroquois nation.

We gather in the great wig-wam and sing our death songs before going to join the Great Spirit.

As we die, we curse the evil English and their forked tongues, and we warn all other nations not to trust them, on pain of betrayal and death.

Our dying gesture, is to gift our cities, knowledge and riches to all other nations, in the hope that they can bring an end to this Great Blight on the planet.

gps PTW_Alpha_221d_1050ad.SAV

 

[bathsheba666]

The English curse the memory of the treacherous Iroquois.

----

Game Admin:

Following general input on the American subject - which has rejected the plan for an expanded American ai on a different continent - my current plan is as follows:

As we are now following the logic of an invaded and defeated Iroquois, the English will, next turn, retake the four Iroquois towns that they originally took to start the war. Reference:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3495369&postcount=796

The remainder will be razed, as they were in the original sequence.

China and Mongols have been gifted a combination of Iroquois cities, knowledge, or gold, depending what was lacking.

The gold generated was by selling off all improvements in the Iroquois cities to be captured or razed. Most Iroquois units have been disbanded.

Again, following the logic behind the original assault, the English will move to secure the luxuries just north of what will now be the Chinese border.
This is the point which the English forces had reached in the original invasion.

The English undertake not to attack human tribes, in the absence of any zone incursions or obvious massing of troops on English borders. This is absolute in the Industrial Age, and a guiding principle subsequently.

Let me know of any questions or concerns.

 

[GreyBeard]

Trying to remember what I was up to.

gps

 

[bathsheba666]

As I recall, holding great stacks of 'peaceful' riders just off the Persian borders

 

[bathsheba666]

The last four Iroquois towns fall into English hands.

We build settlers to colonise the silks.

We are missing a luxury...

 

[GreyBeard]

It's all coming back to me now.

gps

 

[bathsheba666]

All those empty Chinese cities

.. and I said I wouldn't invade..

We suddenly recall the strength of the Persian armies.

 

[GreyBeard]

Yes, I remember now. My Persian neighbors. I've already had one little dispute with them.

gps

 

[GreyBeard]

No news.

gps

 

[GreyBeard]

Nothing to report.

gps

 

[bathsheba666]

And hostilities commence..

The peacefully reformed England is shocked to observe a Chinese cavalry force invading...



Preparations are in hand...

 

[Garsonga]

What a strange occurance. It seems while the peace loving Chinese were enjoying a stroll through previously UNCLAIMED mountains the borders have strangely shifted... hum... Well let it be known there is no hostile intend and the Chinese forces will be relocated as soon as possible.

Sincerely,
Mao-Garsonga

 

[andis-1]

hmm, Do you still need player for china? or is the place filled allready?

 

[GreyBeard]

Those English sure are touchy.

GPS

 

[Garsonga]

The previously mentioned Chinese forces thanked the Honorable English for their hospitality, and left the newly expanded English borders.

However it seems we have visitors on our north east border.

I am sure they are just stopping by to say hello, and welcome to the neighborhood.

GPS to Bathseba