Always War, on Deity.

[Gothmog]

Sirp, you told me you had made it into the industrial age in Diety AW and now I have seen it. I started a solo-Deity AW game last night also as the Greeks (who else?). I picked continents to see if I could survive initial contact. Rome was my first contact and indeed I survived, I built my capital on a hill and a hoplite fortified on a hill is a great defender vs. archers. I've gotten to the point where I sent a few hoplites down to pillage Rome, it turns out Egypt and Carthage share our continent too. I am way way behind in techs already, but I did get a leader. Now if I can get him home I have a slim shot at the Great Library. If not I think I am sunk just due to the tech problem. I may post a summary here when I'm a little farther along, and/or finally done.

As you say it is dubious to play a varient that relies on any wonder as a must have. So I've been thinking for GM-2 something along the lines of your renegotiate peace AW variant. The need to get techs for peace is very real. Our civ would require tribute every 20 turns or be at war with the offenders. I hope you will play in that one too. Maybe it could be Sirp-1?

 

[Sirp]

Gothmog, to play AWD on continents, you are a braver man than I

To be honest, I feel kinda like I've cheated to say I've made it to the IA on AWD when I used a 'pelago map. It does make it much easier, although not trivial. *shrug*.

Yeah you do need the GL, but even if you do get it, once it runs out I think lack of trading means you'll fall straight behind again. I'm thinking that the only way to win AWD is to attack the AIs and cripple them before the GL expires, or by soon after.

I am tempted to do the alternate history thing and replay my AWD game from half way through, trying to make a huge invasion force to take out the Mongol capital. If I could have done that, I think I'd have had a shot.

And yeah, a variant relying on a specific wonder is dubious, although I must admit I'd be willing to do that for a win on AWD

I'm glad you like my "We Demand Tribute" variant idea though. I think it's just about the closest idea I've heard to Always War that still allows a little peace. I'm still trying to work out how much it would help though. I'm envisaging that someone might pay a little tribute, and that allows 20 turns of peace, during which you can take advantage of trading with them.

However it might turn out that the only civilizations willing to make peace for tribute are ones that are behind you anyway. We'd have to see.

I'm happy for you to run it as GM-2, and umm...I've already run a couple of succession games before So...it'd be SP-4 or something. I'm thinking of running another succession game, but the next idea I have is actually a low-moderate war one. So you're welcome to take this idea and run with it; I'd like to play in it, and probably will be able to, but please do start it after GM-1 is finished

-Sirp.

 

[Gothmog]

Ah, they might be behind you but not in tech. In the game I describe above Rome called me up to beg and I could have gotten 4 tech from them just for peace. The way I see the variant, we can take the techs and gold for peace (no per turn stuff) and give them 20 turns, when that's up we call them and demand more. Of course they will refuse most of the time so war will be declared again! If they are ever really weaker then us they will give us tribute every 20 turns and we destroy them at our leisure. We could call it 'Extreme Oscilating War' or something, maybe 'Always Extort'? I will certainly wait until GM-1 is finished to start it (I have a hectic RL too and only play in two SG's at a time - used to be one at a time but I added another and never looked back, or mentioned it to my wife ).

My idea for continents is that if I can survive the initial onslaught (which I did - I got a nice starting position. Rome is between me and the rest of the continent), then take over my continent (which is doubtful). I might be powerful enough to somehow win the game. As you imply, I don't see how one can keep up in tech once the GL expires, not to mention the industrial age, without lots of territory.

 

[Sirp]

I don't see anything wrong with gpt payments. In fact I think that's the perfect kind of tribute; someone pays us gold every turn, and they don't die.

It's possible we'd want to require a 'minimum' tribute. I'm not sure that we should let someone live for 20 turns just because they give us 1 gold piece. Then again, this is probably going to be hard enough already without having to have minimum tribute amounts....

As for a name, there are several I like: "We Demand Tribute", "We Require Tribute", "Tribute or War", "Protection Money". *shrug*

-Sirp.

 

[Lord Vetinari]

Sounds intresting. I personally like "protection money." :tank:

 

[Gothmog]

Hey, I like protection money too. I think I'll edit my RBE post.