Am I understanding Drill correctly

[madscientist]

I have only recently been using this promotion an dlike it (why did I wait). Drill give 1 extra first strike chance (total 0-1 chance), Drill II 1 extra first strike (total 1-2 chance), Drill III 2 extra first strike chance (total 1-4 chance), Drill IV 2 extra strikes (total 3-6). Am I missing something else???

 

[madscientist]

To followup. Archer get 1 first strike chance (protective trait total 0-2, drill II 1-3). Crossbow/Longbow 1 extra first strike (protective 1-2, drill II, 2-3). Yes???

 

[Sjaramei]

Seems right to me, but i don't understand your question completely....

I have no idea how many first strikes archers got by default, but the numbers you gave there looks right.

 

[namliaM]

Yes.....

Drill works best when you are the stronger power, killing without losing a single hitpoint keeps you from having to wait and heal.

 

[madscientist]

Just wanted to make sure. Now one other thing is the Cho-huk (Mao's UU) gets 2 first strikes but is that including the Drill I promotion from being Protective (both Mao and Qin are protective)? If it does Cho-Huk starts off with 2 first strikes, with a baracks and theolocracy (or Vassalage) Mao can get to Drill III fast (3-5 first strikes). If Drill I adds to the 2 first strike, a drill III promotion gets 3-6 first strikes. I am thinking the Cho-huks are quite a bit more powerful than I thought, plus they do collatoral damage.

 

[namliaM]

Chucks starts with 2 first strikes + Drill 1 = 2-3 first strikes
Drill one is 1 first strike chance but the Chuck "starts with" 2 first strikes (no chances, just strikes)

Drill 3 would be 3-6 first strikes

Chucks are powerfull beasts, in particular if you beeline Machinery and have them running around against archers, Axe and Swords.

 

[madscientist]

OK, thanks!!! I have been playing all leaders on Marathon/Huge/Prince games and have Alexander/Mao/Roosevelt/Victoria/Ghandi left to play once I finish the Ragnar game I am on. Mao was the one I going to use next but I have never used that unique unit correctly. Seams if I promote them to Drill III, with Collatoral damage and 50% versus melee units I should be setting off to war arround the middle ages. Never appreciated that UU before. My Qin victory was cultural on Pangea but was able to avoid war mostly through diplomacy and when I did war it was to expand boundaries a bit and help cement relations (I had Shaka/Monty/Kublai/Tokugawa/Hannibal on my borders) outside of the Cho-nuk period.

 

[obsolete]

A couple years ago there was a thread on first strikes. After much debate and deep analysis it was finally concluded that first strike was one of the poorest choices for a unit. Though if two units were of EQUAL strength, then it was OK to use FS.

 

[namliaM]

Though if two units were of EQUAL strength, then it was OK to use FS.

I remember that one... FS is best when you have the advantage in power. You have the bigger change to win the strike and do more damage.
I have seen plenty of kills without even getting a scratch on a Drill IV Chuck...
Remember to bring some Catapults to lower cultural defence, cause the one downside to chucks is they dont get CR...

 

[futurehermit]

I rarely use drill promotions. Dunno. Most units I use don't really get them. They're good for "mopping up" or "suiciding" but for regular combat dunno would rather have the combat line or city raider line.

 

[obsolete]

Another point missed here, some units ignore FS altogether, while I don't think there exists any who can ignore a Strength promotion. I've seen lots of newbies busy upgrading longbowmen to FS while the AI was sending knights against their cities. That's just horrible play....

 

[Mango]

Drill is useful but only if you do it properly. Drill I isn't a great promotion but Drill II is nice. Drill III is meh but Drill IV is nice. In other words, upgrade in twos. If you're not gonna get Drill II then don't take Drill I and if you're not going to take Drill IV then don't go for III.

 

[obsolete]

Years ago I did experiments by upgrading machinegun men to strength +2 and FS +2. The comp would always make the Strength +2 defend first. Which also lead me to believe strength is dominant.

Though it has been mentioned the calculator flounders in FS calculations, so it is possible FS could have been better in a few situations. But that brings up another point, Even if FS was a better choice, but the system will save those units to defend last.... then again you probably shouldn't be making them.

 

[EmperorFool]

In my game earlier tonight I had a Drill II MachineGun protecting a stack of Infantry of various levels, many CR3 C1 and others C2/C3 with Pinch or Formation. The key is that the MG had the lower strength and the lower XP/level.

Yet, it defended against an attack by two Cavalry (and took no damage ). My guess is that the AI had given his Cavalry Pinch. That makes sense, as then the MG would be stronger compared to the Infantry.

Other than MGs, I don't take the Drill promotions. I only build MGs when I've got extra production capacity to burn and because they look cool.

Drill Archers? I suppose there is a worse candidate for Drill: Pikemen!

 

[obsolete]

In vanilla, the MG had a special bonus vs cavalry, so they would have defended first over the infantry regardless. There's been so many changes now in warlords etc, I'm not sure anymore how it's handled.