Amphibious promotion

[Caradoc]

This promotion seems a little weak. It could be improved by allowing the Amphibious unit to board and unboard without ending its turn. For instance:

move 1 --attack, move 2 -- reboard
or
move 1 - board, ship moves, move 2 - attack.​

 

[xienwolf]

Or some resistance to fire would beef it up a bit.

 

[kumquatelvis]

It would actually be a great promotion if it was a little easier to get. If most of your army had it you could attack a city next to a river without penalty to yourself, and with little fear of retaliation (counter-attacks would have to come across the river. Or at least the unit would need to leave the city to go around it).

 

[MaxAstro]

Personally, what I did with amphibious was have it allow units to swim through coastal tiles at reduced stats (-2/-1 while swimming, might actually increase that to -3/-1). IMO this makes it a vastly more useful promotion, surprisingly helpful to units that will make use of it (recon units especially benefit greatly), while still not making it a "must have" promotion, since units that do inland combat won't get much use out of it, other than the rivers bonus. The stat reduction is mostly to keep Drowns useful, and to keep Amphibious units from being able to fight boats effectively. Oh, and for obvious balance reasons I made it no longer available to Mounted units.

This is probably unbalanced and not good for the main game (reducing it to only require Combat 1 might be a better idea for the main game), but I find it fun.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Why is it that flying units need amphibious in order to bypass the river/coastal attack penalty.

 

[Roghar]

Personally, what I did with amphibious was have it allow units to swim through coastal tiles at reduced stats (-2/-1 while swimming, might actually increase that to -3/-1). IMO this makes it a vastly more useful promotion, surprisingly helpful to units that will make use of it (recon units especially benefit greatly), while still not making it a "must have" promotion, since units that do inland combat won't get much use out of it, other than the rivers bonus. The stat reduction is mostly to keep Drowns useful, and to keep Amphibious units from being able to fight boats effectively. Oh, and for obvious balance reasons I made it no longer available to Mounted units.

This is probably unbalanced and not good for the main game (reducing it to only require Combat 1 might be a better idea for the main game), but I find it fun.

did u make them hidden?

presumably they are wading through the shallows for the most part rather than swimming hundreds of kilometres with axes in tow?

I think amphibious is ok, its specific enough that its going to be a surprise when you do use it. Being able to attack effectively from a ship is a big advantage, it pretty much means you can attack a coastal city with no warning, which in a game where rushing troops around to handle incoming big stacks is such an important part of defence is a very big advantage.

 

[eerr]

can enter coast? cool... now it needs a high req though...
make sure it won't allow ocean movement within your own borders, like what happens with vanilla triermines, and fall from heaven fire elementals

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I was under the impression that the inability to enter oceans was unit specific, and could not be changed by promotions.

 

[Arwon]

I think all Lanun units should receive amphibious by default.

 

[rhawn]

I was under the impression that the inability to enter oceans was unit specific, and could not be changed by promotions.

A promotion like water walking?

 

[xienwolf]

Inability to enter ocean IS set per unit, and I do not know of which flag for promotions can allow it. Correct MC. However, most units are not flagged as unable to enter ocean.

rhawn: Waterwalking allows access to the water terrain in general, it doesn't differentiate between Coastal and Ocean.

A solid example is the Drown. This is a unit that is flagged as CANNOT ENTER OCEAN. It starts with water walking, and thus can walk all over the coasts, but can't get in the ocean. Now, promote to a Stygian Guard and you keep water walking promotion, BUT the Stygian Guard is not flagged as CANNOT ENTER OCEAN, and thus you are now able to go into Ocean tiles like almost every other unit with water walking.

 

[MaxAstro]

Yep. What I did to prevent that was make swimming units drown instantly if they step into an ocean tile.

I'm considering having a chance of them being reborn as Drowns, either barbarian or under your control, if you are OO.

 

[Cuteunit]

Amphibious is utter doom if you're Lanun and you outfit Guybrush with it. With the Lanun it's like a water version of Tasunke, almost.

I conquered and razed an entire khazad nation across several continents primarily with a bunch of man-o-wars that Guybrush conveniently captured for me. I'd just sail over, reduce the entire cultural defense to 0 in one blast, and have Guybrush whack away at 22 effective str at his arquebus, which proved no real threat. When Guybrush did get low I just retreated to a pirate cove I dropped on a fragment. It was over quite fast for the number of cities i took/destroyed.

I was fond of using Commando units in BTS too.

 

[jenks]

Back to the OP and Id agree its not that impressive despite some of the war stories above. I'd argue for it to be slightly enhanced by removing/reducing the Combat II requirement to Combat I or none, and also and adding a small benefit if codable:

no combat penalty when attacking direct from sea

no combat penalty when crossing river

+recieves no additional movement penalty when crossing river (effectively can use roads crossing river without construction tech)

I think all Lanun units should receive amphibious by default.

would be cool

 

[eerr]

cannot enter ocean,
cannot enter ice(flatland)
ect, has no effect within your culture...

i.e. vanilla triermines and drown can sail on ocean within your culture, and fire elementals can enter ice in your culture

 

[Cuteunit]

Back to the OP and Id agree its not that impressive despite some of the war stories above. I'd argue for it to be slightly enhanced by removing/reducing the Combat II requirement to Combat I or none, and also and adding a small benefit if codable:

no combat penalty when attacking direct from sea

no combat penalty when crossing river

+recieves no additional movement penalty when crossing river (effectively can use roads crossing river without construction tech)



would be cool

units that can attack from shorewith no penalties and with no fear of retaliation ( since land units can't get you) are pretty beastly if you combine them with the bombard power of the ships that carry them, that's all I'm saying.

 

[kumquatelvis]

Maybe it could be broken into two promos? River crossing, then ocean attack? Heck, boarding could be a third promo after it (Lanun units would still start with it, of course).

 

[Eldric IV]

I like to grab Amphibious for any of my units that do not benefit from terrain defense (like Rosier the Fallen in my current game). Park him across the river from a city and he gets a vestige of terrain defense.

 

[kenken244]

I agree with the thread starter that amphibious should make you able to unboard/board without losing your movement. It would make it a lot more powerful on archipelago maps.

 

[eerr]

combat 1
combat 2
amphibious "then"
swimming


of course...