An idea for a possible Civil War/Mao-era China Scenario

[Kensho]

Hi, all. I'm relatively new to Civ3 and have no experience with Scenario or Mod-making. Despite this, I have an idea of a Mao-era China scenario.

Essentially, after World War II, the nationalists of Chiang Kai-Shek and communists of Mao Zedong that banded together to defeat the Japanese split apart again and fought for Chinese supremacy in a brief civil war. I think we all the know the story; the nationalists ultimately fled to Taiwan, the communists took over, invaded Tibet, etc.

I'm not quite sure about the date of the scenario. It could be during or after WWII. I was leaning more towards after, when the civil war started again because then it could be more of a Chinese scenario, nationalists vs. communists. Other nations should be included like Japan (US military), North/South Korea, Southeast Asia, and Tibet.

The whole theme of this potential scenario would be you, Mao (although one could play as another nation), must win the civil war, perhaps takeover Tibet, and support North Korea and North Vietnam. I'm guessing that the scenario would start in 1945 and the end date could be 1976 when Mao died.

There would be plenty of challenge having Chiang Kai-Shek to defeat and the American miltary presence to subdue. Also, unique Chinese units might include the Red Guard and specific People's Liberation Army (mostly guerilla) units. Tibetan military units might be interesting, too, as I've seen a thread somewhere containing photos of Tibetan soldiers.

The actual scenario wouldn't be hard to construct. All that would be needed is a map of the Far East, specific borders and troop placements, units, and necessities.

I'm planning on doing more research on this project. Please inform me you'd like to contribute or if you even think this is a good idea. Comments, questions, possibilities are entirely welcome; this scenario won't go anwhere if no input is received. Also, if the scenario is to be completed, I'd need more experienced scenario-creators to help me! Feedback, please!

 

[Mobilize]

I would like a scenario just like this.. that would be awesome. There is map which encompasses China, Mongolia, Tibet, Japan, the Korean Peninsula, Philipines, Taiwan, and a lot of Southeast Asia. It's a good map and would be good for this scenario.

I don't know much about the War but I know some things about it, and I could always help you with city corrections, which is what I do best. I hope this scenario gets worked on by somebody.

 

[Kensho]

I'm glad you liked the idea. Which map of Asian are you referring to? I've seen several in the map forum.

I was just thinking about the scenario and realized that it's going to be difficult trying to represent certain historical events that occured such as the Korean and Vietnam wars. There's no way to script events in Civ3. It's not that big of a deal (I'm sure there's some way around it), but it kinda ruins some of the fun.

Also, I was thinking about alternative governments for the game. Initially, the Maoists need a government other than communism since they're at war. Apparently during the civil war, the communists were more geared towards winning the war than furthering communism. Maybe this "government" could be called "People's War," which is what Mao called the wars against the Japanese and Nationalists. During the war, "Communism" or "Maoism" could be researched and implemented later. A tech called "The Cultural Revolution" could be created as well. The Cultural Revolution was the period between 1966-76. Mao tried to stir up the revolutionary spirit again and remove political elements dangerous to the people. Perhaps this could be a government?

More feedback!

 

[Mobilize]

Your ideas sound like they'd work out good. I don't know as much as you do, so when I'm bored tonight I'm gonna research it because it interests me and I would like to aid somebody with creating such a scenario.

The map I know of is in the top page of the User-Created section. If I could get a map of the territory of the Nationalists and of the Communists I could come up with a rather accurate map because city placement is what I do best.

There are probably going to be some locked alliances as well.. what would those be?

 

[Jibuli]

Great! For I'm a Chinese, I'm very glad to see that u'r going to creat such a scenario. Maybe I can supply some helps....but it will be after January 15th, because of my final exam (Sorry for my poor English).

 

[Bluemofia]

well some of the units wont be too much of a problem, like the people's liberation army (use the guerilla unit) some standards are infantry, but change the attack and name, jet fighters change a few settings, same with bombers. but is there any way to make the civs have contact with each other otherthan via units or cities? you should also put map explored on the scenerio options

 

[Ozymandias]

I think a more interesting scenario along the same lines would be ahistorical:

Start in 1939 (when the USSR and Japan actually went to war) and assume that -- through some alternate history -- the West stayed quiet (no WW2) and the War In The East is on:

1. Locked alliance of Soviet Union and Communist Chinese
2. Locked alliance of Nationalist Chinese and US
3. Japan
4. Locked alliance of French and British as "peripheral" colonial powers

Just a thought

-Oz

 

[Mobilize]

I think he wanted to make the scenario historically accurate, as I would like to have it. Your idea is good though.. you should create such a scenario.

 

[Kensho]

I like the idea, Ozymandias. Perhaps in the future we could develop it.

BTW, I am doing a lot of research on this mod, both on and off the web. Production is still in progress. I'm afraid I won't have as much free time when my next semester starts Jan. 8 so I'm trying to get most of it done before then.

Jibuli, if you think you can help in creating this mod, great; I'd love to have authentic Chinese opinion on it.

A really good site on the Chinese civl war can be found here. It has various maps that I think will be extremely important when it comes time for map creation.

More information to come. I'll update soon on the entire mod.

 

[Kensho]

Hi all. I'm still researching, and I've come across a problem that must be addressed. What will be the historical time-frame of the mod? I initially intended for it to span 1946-76. It will be difficult representing all of the historical events that ocrrured, so I'm aiming for something maybe a little ahistorically accurate.


Have:

China split into nationalist and communist camps. I intend to make the civil war relatively easy to win. The civil war is only a small portion of the whole scenario.

Vietnam/Indochina split into North Vietnamese and
French/American control (I know, not exactly what happened, but in order to portray both French and American Indochina wars, I thought that it might be necessary. Thoughts?)

North Korea and South Korea

Japan as under US occupation?

EDIT - I forgot Tibet. We're definitely have them in there.

How will we work out the USSR factor? I was thinking about just leaving them out of it.

This a map I found on the internet of the Chinese civil war. Any thoughts?

Feedback?

 

[Ozymandias]

Agreed re: leaving the USSR out and factoring in their assistance to the Chinese Communists in other ways (lower unit costs; whatever).

North and South Korea -- locked alliances with Chinese Communists and US respectively??

Also locked alliance US-French re: Indochina.

US occupation of Japan sounds good -- allows US capitol to be "occupation HQ" in Tokyo and helps re: corruption /distance issues.

If you're going for 1976, don't forget the Sino-Indian war of 1962 and the Sino-Soviet border skirmishes on the Amur River in the early 1970s.

-Oz

 

[Kensho]

Basically, I was thinking about referring to all the Western powers in the scenario as ... the Western Powers (how original, lol). But seriously, Japan and the French portions of Vietnam will be under the Western Powers' control with South Korea in a locked alliance with the west. Should I include Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Mongolia, India or perhaps a combination of them? I'm unsure since it is a Chinese scenario focusing on China.

I also need a good map for this scenario. None of the maps I've seen in the forum interest me. Maybe I missed a really good one; let me know.
Perhaps someone could create one?

 

[Ozymandias]

El Mencey has a fine 100 x 100 map spanning roughly India to Japan here:

http://perso.wanadoo.es/civ3maps/


-Oz

 

[Kensho]

Thanks!
Really good map. But do you think it focuses too much on Asia and not China? On the other hand, it'll be a great trial map to see how everything works. Although I don't have much experience in scenario making, I'm gonna try to set it up and see how it works.

 

[Kensho]

Argh! I've discovered how difficult it is to create this scenario. After a few tries, I gave up. I guess I won't exactly be of any help on this scenario except for maybe ideas and input on historical/political matters.

Would anyone like to take my torch and carry on with work on this scenario?

 

[Ozymandias]

Well, this may be very small consolation, but I'm planning a mod called "Red Star Rising" which pits the player as the USSR against the AI from 1933 ~ 1953 and takes into account the Chinese Civil War. Granted, I have another mod to finish first (I just find how long it takes to actually mod this game annoying when Civ 2 was so easy!) but I'm certainly not planning on letting the Wonders Ukas created at my request go to waste!

Best Regards,

Oz

 

[Kensho]

Cool. Your USSR scenario sounds like it'd be very entertaining. Lots of luck with that one.

I too have found the Civ3 editor rather cumbersome, especially for a newbie like me. But I won't give up on research for this scenario because I think someone will eventually want to make it.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Does the USSR scenario cover the little border disagreement between the USSR and Germany between 1941 and 1945?

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
Does the USSR scenario cover the little border disagreement between the USSR and Germany between 1941 and 1945?

Possibly . Starting in 1933 yields the possibility of a lot of alternate history between then and 1941. Someone puts a bullet in Hitler's neck; France opposes the remilitarization of the Rhineland; Germany (which will have the highest possible aggression level after all) strikes West first ...

Other possibilities (one that intrigues me) is a Russo-British war, a continuation of the "Great Game" over South Asia.

Also the Russo-Japanese War ...

I'm wondering if certain locked alliances might work (e.g., USSR + Chinese Communists; Nationalist Chinese + Americans; Germans + Finns ... the latter, with Poland in existence, would guarantee a replay of 1939 somewhere along the Mannerheim Line ... You get the gist )

I think it'll be a hoot ... however, given how long Mod #1 is taking, I wouldn't hold my breath for this one, although it WILL happen at some point!

Abraxas,

Oz

 

[Kensho]

I'm sorry, which mod are you working on exactly? I was trying to find it in one of the forums earlier.

Well, you're so determined on completing your scenario that you've inspired me to try again on mine this weekend. Map creation isn't my thing, but I guess the only way to get better is through experience, right?