Playing as the Spanish, I had conquered the Aztec (they collapsed with 2 cities left never offered to be vassal to me). In 1850, they declared their freedom, with Cuidad de Mexico returning to their control. On that turn, they capitulated to Inca becoming their vassal state (I was at war with Inca).
An interesting vassal occurrence
- Thread starter Barak
- Start date
I had something similar happen in a game as the Turks. Essentially after running rampant over Rome and Spain and with a huge culture center in the middle east Russia foolishly declared war on me. About half way through, when my armies were holding the line against Russian Units and preparing a counterattack, suddenly Russia becomes Germany's Vassal! It seemed weird at the time because Russia wasn't at war with Germany, but it makes sense if you think of it like this;
Germany was the superpower of the world (along with me and my faith brothers in Arabia) I was just about to conquer Russia, so Russia decided that being alive but someone's Vassal was better than being dead, so became Germany's vassal so Germany would help them fight their war with me.
So I don't think mine is a bug, but I'm not sure about your case, Were you at war with the Aztecs right after they declared independence?
Hmm, I just now remembered I decided it was a good place to save after getting Arabia to join forces with me aggainst the Germany-France(also a vassal)-Russia Juggernaut.
So excuse me, but I have a World War to fight.
Germany was the superpower of the world (along with me and my faith brothers in Arabia) I was just about to conquer Russia, so Russia decided that being alive but someone's Vassal was better than being dead, so became Germany's vassal so Germany would help them fight their war with me.
So I don't think mine is a bug, but I'm not sure about your case, Were you at war with the Aztecs right after they declared independence?
Hmm, I just now remembered I decided it was a good place to save after getting Arabia to join forces with me aggainst the Germany-France(also a vassal)-Russia Juggernaut.
So excuse me, but I have a World War to fight.
fegguk
Chieftain
I was playing as spain and Mali offered to become my vassel without a shot being fired not even an angry word. They seemed to have quite a resonable number of cities and were not a war with anyone.
This has never happend to me before
This has never happend to me before
Maybe it's simulating a situation where the nation's heartland is crushed, but a peripheral (and culturally distinct) area decides to break away and fight on. For example, if we were to re-enact WWI using Rhye's, all the new nations created at Versailles (Poland, Yugoslavia, etc) would appear as barbs/microstates from the collapsed Empires, rather than becoming vassals -- although the barb Kiev would soon flip back and become a vassal of the USSR civ.
Capitulation is not the only way Vassal states are made. A civ can also ASK to become a vassal to gain protection from other enemies. If one civ is vastly more powerful than another the weaker civ might ask to become a vassal of the stronger one to get relative immunity from other world powers (who would not normally dare to attack the stronger civ)
This is probably why civs that ressurect immediately become vassals of other stronger civs
(It is likely technically a 'flaw' with the AI, where at some point it decides whether or not to become a vassal based on a ration of strengths (chance to become vassal = Owner state power / Vassal State Power) With the state being recently created its effective power is very close to 0, and as calc students will know Lim x->0 of A/x is infinity, thus resulting in a very high chance to become a vassal).
I personally feel this is slightly realistic too, as it simulates what America did with breakaway European Colonies under the Monroe doctrine. (For those of you not versed in American history; the Monroe doctrine essentially formalized an ideology of America to protect the Americas from the influence of the European powers.)
This is probably why civs that ressurect immediately become vassals of other stronger civs
(It is likely technically a 'flaw' with the AI, where at some point it decides whether or not to become a vassal based on a ration of strengths (chance to become vassal = Owner state power / Vassal State Power) With the state being recently created its effective power is very close to 0, and as calc students will know Lim x->0 of A/x is infinity, thus resulting in a very high chance to become a vassal).
I personally feel this is slightly realistic too, as it simulates what America did with breakaway European Colonies under the Monroe doctrine. (For those of you not versed in American history; the Monroe doctrine essentially formalized an ideology of America to protect the Americas from the influence of the European powers.)
fegguk
Chieftain
I thought the Monroe doctine was "Lets grab the whole continent and crush everyone or thing that gets in out way especially native Americans and anybody who does not speak English. Except when it comes to Canada because we are a bit scared of the British and I not as easy to have a war with people if you can understand what they are saying. I bid
Well, um....
Its one of those 'intent versus action' things
(yeah, we'll go with that...), the doctrine Officially said something to the effect of "We intend to keep out of European Affairs, and we expect the Europeans to keep out of the affairs in America (meaning all of the American continents)." Thus it was intended, or said to seem to intend that America would back colonies fighting for their independence. In practice however America simply sided with whoever it felt would protect their economic interests better, which is a practice still alive today as can be seen in much of America's involvement in pretty darn much everything.
"Let's Grab the whole continent and crush anyone who stands against us" wasn't so much a doctrine as a combination of the theory of "Manifest Destiny" (a big fancy thing meaning America felt it was its destiny right and obligation to spread from Ocean to Ocean) and the Native American Ressetlement Acts whose official names currently escape me, and the Homestead Acts, and various other acts and occurences.
Overall however nations rebelling and immediately becoming other civ's vassals still sounds like a pretty historical and intelligent idea to me, as it is a rather intelligent strategy to become someone's vassal to keep them or someone else from killing you. I do also think however the vassal threashold for capitulation needs to be reworked, as I think the threashold and the 'fall' threashold are probably overlapping quite a bit, and that is why civs seem to prefer death to capitulation.
Its one of those 'intent versus action' things
(yeah, we'll go with that...), the doctrine Officially said something to the effect of "We intend to keep out of European Affairs, and we expect the Europeans to keep out of the affairs in America (meaning all of the American continents)." Thus it was intended, or said to seem to intend that America would back colonies fighting for their independence. In practice however America simply sided with whoever it felt would protect their economic interests better, which is a practice still alive today as can be seen in much of America's involvement in pretty darn much everything."Let's Grab the whole continent and crush anyone who stands against us" wasn't so much a doctrine as a combination of the theory of "Manifest Destiny" (a big fancy thing meaning America felt it was its destiny right and obligation to spread from Ocean to Ocean) and the Native American Ressetlement Acts whose official names currently escape me, and the Homestead Acts, and various other acts and occurences.
Overall however nations rebelling and immediately becoming other civ's vassals still sounds like a pretty historical and intelligent idea to me, as it is a rather intelligent strategy to become someone's vassal to keep them or someone else from killing you. I do also think however the vassal threashold for capitulation needs to be reworked, as I think the threashold and the 'fall' threashold are probably overlapping quite a bit, and that is why civs seem to prefer death to capitulation.
thenooblet22
King
Yes, this happened to me before. In fact, most my games they agree to be the vassal state for the first civilization they are happy with.
fegguk
Chieftain
I think Vishaing is right the same thing happens in this mod as the real world.
Those colonies that brake away close to another power do so by joining it. i.e the USA and Texas or California. Though outside the USA and Hong Kong Machau others are hard to find most states sought to keep there independance.
Those that are a bit further away become vassels for protection i.e. USA and the Central American States. However I think I would rather live in Belieze (Ex British Honduras) than Honduras or the rest of cental America. Maybe being a vassel of the USA is not all that a great idea unless you fear being colonised for your bananas or have a lot of oil.
Those colonies that brake away close to another power do so by joining it. i.e the USA and Texas or California. Though outside the USA and Hong Kong Machau others are hard to find most states sought to keep there independance.
Those that are a bit further away become vassels for protection i.e. USA and the Central American States. However I think I would rather live in Belieze (Ex British Honduras) than Honduras or the rest of cental America. Maybe being a vassel of the USA is not all that a great idea unless you fear being colonised for your bananas or have a lot of oil.
Phallus
Freudian Slip
This happened to me in the beta too. They're doing perfectly well on their own but as soon as they meet you they ask to become your vassal.
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