Analysis of the Civilization Traits

[Seraiel]

I don't see how CHA saves so many and in your example of a Barracks + XP, a normal unit would also be able to spec CR2, so it would have the same promotions. I also don't see how especially the 3rd promotion is interesting, it's normally the 2nd one that is important, and there, AGG has the clear advantage on getting it on drafted units.

Really, seriously, CHA competes for the last place for me, if comparing traits. I know that this opinion is not the most common in S&T, but I actually got good arguments why I really think that this trait is so weak.

 

[Bibor]

Eventually, all traits lose their potency. Its the early game that matters. If you start with no happiness resources, the CHA monument can save your butt. If you're building an early rush, melee units from barracks need one successful attack to promote, compared to 2 without CHA. Mounted units with stables need 2 successful attacks to promote, compared to 3 without CHA.

This might not sound as much, but hear me out.

You say Aggressive is better. Well, no. Because it only affects melee units. Aggressive is great in the very early game, because it can give you a 10-25% edge over opposing units in the same era.
However, Charismatic works for siege and Mounted units as well.
Compared to Aggressive, a Charismatic leader is quite likely to get Level 3 War Elephants, which is a 12 vs melee/archer and 14.4 vs mounted unit before the middle ages.

You say Vassalage and Theocracy offer better returns regarding experience. Which is true. But you fail to mention you lose the bonuses the other civics provide (like Organized Religion or Bureaucracy).

Also, Charismatic leaders get level 2 units out of Drydocks and Airports, level 3 with West Point. With ships, this mean they can take Drill I and Medic I out of the gate. Survivability skyrockets.

 

[elitetroops]

Oh and lets not forget how disgustingly overpowered Charismatic Leadership non-medic Great Generals are.

An aggressive Leadership non-medic Great General is ahead of the charismatic until 6 promotions and equal at 7. Only from the 8th promotion the charismatic gets ahead, assuming the general wants a C1 promotion, which it usually does. If you make a super defender (CG and Drill line), protective is ahead of charismatic still at the 13th promotion.

I like Cha more than Agg or Pro, because it boosts all unit types and adds the happiness bonus. Especially nice is that it gives stronger mounted units, which no other trait can give you. But it still quite far down in my rankings.

 

[Windsor]

The extra happiness charismatic brings is more valuable on multi-continents map where you got 0-2 neighbors. On pangeas everything goes much faster and access to happiness is easier making charismatic a weaker trait.

But I also think is underrated and stays relevant far into the game, if not the entire game. +2 is an extra round of drafting or two extra rounds with the whip.

 

[Seraiel]

1 Warrior = 1 with HR

A lot cheaper than building Monuments. Once one has REP, it's very hard to not have enough Happiness.

Look at my last writeup (signature) . I played on Boreal, which had exactly 3 possible luxuries, Furs, Silver and Gema. I never had Problems with happiness, through the whole game. Reason was, that cities got whipped as hard as possible, which brought me a 15 or 16xx finish time, on a poor map that's even twice as large as pangaea.
Maybe instead your cities growing to size 20, you should whip the cities and win hundreds of years earlier.

I can give the same examples for all other types of games. When CIV had a problem, then it would ne once one has Factories and Pps.

 

[Windsor]

Just looked at the start. I don't understand how you could possibly believe that an Aztec game on a food poor map was a good example?

 

[Seraiel]

Just looked at the start. I don't understand how you could possibly believe that an Aztec game on a food poor map was a good example?

Well, Aztechs are weak, the map is also weak, and it's large normal, so again harder then standard normal pangaea.

Therefore: All that worked in my game, will be even easier on other maps.

 

[Iwo Jima]

can never be unuseful. extra means you can draft additional units or you can hurry buildings with slavery.

its also significant difference between 4 people cities and 5(or 6) people cities in early game. (emperor difficulty) Calendar gives you only in the middle game, but we all know, that early advantage is more valuable.

 

[Seraiel]

I never said CHA had no advantages, it's just that the advantages are so small. Size 4 or 5 citiies in the beginning is a very minor advantage, and Calendar on Deity comes at 1500 BC.

 

[dutchfire]

Depends on strategy I suppose, when I'm playing towards a Cuir/Rifle break-out, I'm mostly commerce limited and not production limited. "There's nothing to whip", so cities are bigger and more happiness is nice. (I let my cities grow big to be able to whip as many Cuirs as possible)

 

[Seraiel]

Depends on strategy I suppose, when I'm playing towards a Cuir/Rifle break-out, I'm mostly commerce limited and not production limited. "There's nothing to whip", so cities are bigger and more happiness is nice. (I let my cities grow big to be able to whip as many Cuirs as possible)

You could whip HAs and WEs and Knights ro upgrade them with a GM. Also, Forges take quite a long time / cost a lot pop.