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[NFP] Ancient Era Policy Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Baigan, Feb 25, 2021.

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  1. kryat

    kryat King

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    On higher difficulty and with latest patches, that extra CS toward barbarians can really help shave a few turns off dealing with the horde. The extra few gold... not so much.
     
  2. JhGf_123

    JhGf_123 Chieftain

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    I’m on team God King. It doesnt deserve to win, but if I want a particular pantheon (especially the holy site adjacency ones) then its essential. Missing out on a holy site adjacency pantheon often means a rage restart for me.
    I thought about downvoting Limitanei, because I find that loyalty is generally easy to control. But it does have its uses in those grinding mid-game wars. Caravansaries on the other hand only adds a small amount of gold in the early game and becomes obsolete fairly soon (Mercantalism, I think?). Sometimes I run it for internal trade routes, but not often.

    I predict/think the top 3 should be: Discipline, Agoge and either Urban Planning or Colonization.
     
  3. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    Caravansaries - I don't use it much. By the time I've enough trade routes I've already unlocked, or am near to unlocking, Triangular Trade. Useful in a pinch.

    God King - The absolute most optimal time to grab a pantheon is as early as possible, while you still only have a city: you have a better shot at a good pantheon and the penalty from not using urban planning is negligible. I use this in essentially every game.
    ---

    Side note: Survey lets you rush through terrain and grab all Huts and free City-State Envoys, plus having a quick view of the surrounding terrain to plan your city placement accordingly. There's nothing obvious about it being removed first, imo.
     
  4. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Prince

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    God King (13) - Unless you're intentionally going for a pantheon where bonuses don't kick in until later (River Goddess if not going for a religion; Divine Spark if not rushing early GP), getting an early pantheon up and running helps the early game. You're likely not getting a free settler just by running God King, but getting culture from plantations or extra production from camps or cheaper early units or production from marshes...all of those things are most impactful early in the game.

    Caravanseries (1) - I quite honestly don't think I have ever used this card. Even as Mali or England, I haven't had enough trade routes running early to make this relatively small amount of extra gold worthwhile.

    On survey - I probably would have downvoted if it weren't already gone, but it does have its uses. In particular, if you're playing as the Inca or Cree and want to get to ambush with your recon units, it's incredibly helpful. In other circumstances, if you don't need to pump out military units for defense and are not getting swarmed by barbs, it can be useful to get a couple of super-explorers who can move quickly across the map. All that being said, in 9 out of 10 games I play I rarely have the opportunity to slot it in.
     
  5. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 Emperor

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    Do I get to kill Caravanseries? Yay!

    Agoge (17)
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    Maneuver (15)
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    Revelation (7)
    Strategos (15)
    Urban Planning (19+1)

    Urban Planning: I feel like a lazy schmuck for picking this one but I keep this slotted for way longer than I know I'm supposed to, b/c I don't min-max.

    Caravanseries: I cannot recall ever choosing this one. I think the only time I did was to keep myself from going negative because I had -1 or -2 and needed it to be not negative. But trade routes take so long to set up early game it's just not worth it.
     
  6. Paisky

    Paisky Chieftain

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    Agoge (17+1) - Everyone needs units - whether warmonger or not warmonger - especially early.
    Colonization (17)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (17)
    God King (13)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (12 - 3) - Yes - Science is important - but think most people would be focussed on other things at this point
    Land Surveyors (11)
    Limitanei (12)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
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  7. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Warlord

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    (Polite reminder @Qwan that your non-voting posts are liable to being deleted by a moderator. Side chats aren't allowed on elimination threads, else it descends into a mess of back–and–forth arguing)

    Agoge (17)
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    Conscription (12) (15-3)
    Discipline (18) (17+1)
    God King (13)
    Ilkum (15)
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    Land Surveyors (11)
    Limitanei (12)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (7)
    Strategos (15)
    Urban Planning (20)

    Conscription (12) (15-3): I often find myself plugging this in when I haven't got anything better to do. But that doesn't make it a good card: if you bother to count how much gold it actually saves you, it's usually about 5–10gpt, and rarely more than 10–15gpt, which is about the same as a decent trade deal with the AI.

    Discipline (18) (17+1): Has become even more important after the recent changes to melée vs anti-cav. You simply have to keep on top of the early-game barbarians, else you stand the very real chance of a game-over. Discipline is the best card for dealing with that: even one Discipline-buffed archer can be the difference between surviving or dying.
     
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  8. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    Revelation (4) (17-3) Agreed, unless I'm playing Greece or Poland I would never slot this.
    Strategos (16) (15+1) In some games, even on deity when playing entirely peacefully and without building a single encampment, this card can help grab an early GG. Probably won't last *too* long but I'll throw it an upvote.
    Urban Planning (20)
     
  9. Qwan

    Qwan Warlord

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    Ok, so if I have to vote to keep my post alive, here's my vote. And I've consolidated my other posts into this one. Although, again, I'll point out that the value of the cards depends on the level of Difficulty.

    Agoge (17)
    Colonization (17)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (12)
    Discipline (18)
    God King (13)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (9) (12-3) I never use Inspiration (+2 Scientist points). But I play at Deity (on a standard-size map), and the AIs are way ahead in getting Scientist points.
    Land Surveyors (12) (11+1) If I'm in a Republic, and not building settlers or builders, it's one of two reasonable options for that extra economic slot. And Caravansaries has already been eliminated. Plus, I'll suspend Urban Planning to use it when I'm switching policies again in 1-2 turns, to buy several tiles.
    Limitanei (12)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (4)
    Strategos (16)
    Urban Planning (20)

    A lot of the cards may not be useful generally, but can be very useful situationally. I don't employ God King often, but if a village gives me 20 faith and I only need 5 more for a pantheon. Or if I'm playing Sparta (Gorgo), I can use extra wild card slot with Strategos to get an early Great General. And Limitanei (+2 loyalty with garrison) helps with forward settling. Revelation (+2 Prophet points) might make the difference between getting a religion or not. Except for Inspiration, I've found reason to use them all.

    And maybe even Inspiration, if I played Pericles (so I didn't have to wait for Political Philosophy to have a wild-card slot), and my first district was a Campus, and Hypatia was available.

    Re: Survey
    Sometimes I use this before +5 vs barbarians, because it helps my scouts get that first promotion faster.
    Sometimes I use this after my scouts have 1 promotion, and I don't have barbarians to worry about (and I'm building settlers or builders, so don't need Agoge). Getting that 2nd promotion makes the scout so much better an explorer.
    Sometimes I use this when I'm in a early war with an AI, simply because it's fun to get a scout to a 3rd or 4th promotion.

    More recently, I've liked employing Autocracy as my first government (it's like having an extra policy for God King, but better). So I have two military slots, and if I'm not building military, I often employ Survey.

    But I can't vote for Survey, because it's been eliminated.

    I'm not going to vote for Urban Planning, even though I use it a lot. Because so can the AI. I prefer to vote for a card that's much better for me than for the AI.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  10. Baigan

    Baigan Chieftain

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    Not a vote. Just correcting errors. Limitanei lost 3 downvotes on post #10. Also, post #27 overlooked the previous vote.


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  11. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

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    Limitanei (6)(9-3) In the ancient era, you probably won't need it. Loyalty pressures aren't that high and you mostly conquer nearby cities
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (5) (4+1) Can't count how many times this has gotten me a prophet when I would ahve missed out on one otherwise
    Strategos (16)
    Urban Planning (20)
     
  12. Kmart_Elvis

    Kmart_Elvis King

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    Agoge (18)
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    God King (14) (13+1) I'm a God King fan. It's an absolute necessity to get that first pantheon (or at least the second or third). Even if you don't even go for a religion, a good early choice at pantheon is super helpful. The majority of games I will slot this until I get a pantheon, and then switch over to urban planning.
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (3) (6-3) Out of the wildcards, this one is the weakest. There's games where you might want to get that first GG first or you need that Great Prophet for religion, but even in my scientific victory games, I never slot this early. Might use it later on, but there's a lot of competition here.
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  13. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    Agoge (18 + 1 = 19) I often quit as soon as I get a successful early rush on a neighbor, and this card is the cause. Let's just pump out 3 Archers on top of my upgraded Slingers and take city after city, I guess!
    Colonization (17)
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    Inspiration (3 - 3 = 0) If I want to run a Great Person card, I'd rather win the Prophet race or get a General to start snowballing. Getting a Scientist is not as useful, especially this early when it is easy to get all the Eurekas yourself. This gets better if the Scientist up for grabs is the +Science on Libraries, though
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  14. Banazir864

    Banazir864 Warlord

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    Agoge (19)
    Colonization (18 (17+1)) Settlers are powerful, and this helps you churn them out.
    Corvée (15)
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    God King (14)
    Ilkum (15)
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    Limitanei (3 (6-3)) Even if you’re engaged in early conquest (or forward-settling), this doesn’t make a big difference.
    Maneuver (15)
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    Revelation (5)
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  15. Saint Joan

    Saint Joan Chieftain

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    Revelation (2 (5-3)) If you're going for a religion at higher difficulties, by the time Political Philosophy rolls around, Revelation probably won't make that great a difference. If you're not going for a religion, this policy is irrelevant.
    Strategos (16)
    Urban Planning (21 (20+1)) You know it's great; I know it's great. It's a solid baseline policy. Every game I play will involve slotting it in at some point and in most games it stays slotted in most of the time.
     
  16. CoconutTank

    CoconutTank Unapologetic Warmonger Supporter

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    Conscription (13) (12 + 1) For any player that intends to wield a sizable military force, Conscription can save on tons of gold. It's probably not a great idea to slot in Conscription immediately when it's available, but it's worth slotting in soon. If one doesn't save enough gold from Conscription to have it be worth slotting, then one is basically a step away from being squashed for having a non-existent army.

    Revelation (-1) (2 - 3) Building a Holy Site and running Prayers seems like a much better plan for getting a Great Prophet than relying on Revelation. Even without the RNG of finding a natural wonder to get Astrology faster, one is more likely to finish building a Holy Site before getting to Political Philosophy for a gov't with purple slots. The only civs that can possibly make use of Revelations before PP are Poland and Greece, but going for Mysticism is a diversion from PP, which is still a bad idea early game.

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  17. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Ilkum +1
    Ilkum into Agoge/Manuever, Ilkum into Colonisation on Magnus are probably the cheapest way of early expansion, Ilkum into Corvee is the best to secure Mids/ToA/Oracle and so on.
    Ilkum everywhere...(and land surveyors somewhere between t buy choppable land)

    Strategos -3
    Very unreliable way to get great geberal and available late, way too late to use it to get a great general. You want a GG? Go Ilkum into projects

    I would defend limitanei, as ancient-classical era, when all AIs are in their way on golden classical era, and gov titles are too limited, it is losing or not a city or two during first war. +2 is enough to keep city for a few turns longer. But thhing is lost I supose
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  18. Lamington

    Lamington Chieftain

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    Limitanei (0) 3-3 Eliminated. I have never found use for this one, and +2 loyalty would not be enough to hold a city without governors.
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (16) 15+1 I’ll throw a little this way for those early game navy. 100% increase is very decent, especially for naval inclined civs.
    Strategos (13)
     
  19. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Conscription (13+1=14) A real life saver if you are building any kind of army.
    Corvée (15-3=12) Building early wonders is generally a trap to be avoided
     
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  20. TCBB

    TCBB Warlord

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    Agoge (19)
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    Corvée (13) (12+1)
    Conscription (14)
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    God King (14)
    Ilkum (16)
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    Maritime Industries (13) (16-3)
    Strategos (13)

    Corvée (13) (12+1). Can't say I agree with that, I'm afraid. Five of the best wonders in the game are ancient/classical (Temple of Artemis, Oracle, Pyramids, Colosseum, Mausoleum), and there are a bunch of others that are also situationally very good (Apadana, Great Library, Petra, Mahabodhi Temple). Corvée will shave several turns off all of these, especially when combined with Magnus & chopping; the long-term impact of grabbing them can be profound.

    Maritime Industries (13) (16-3). In probably 2/3 of maps, naval combat is not a priority. And even on water-heavy maps, the ancient/classical ships are kinda trash: galleys are too weak to take down a city by themselves, and quadriremes are limited by the fact they only have one range. The major exceptions are obviously Harald and Dido; but apart from those two you're not going to achieve much by building a big navy until caravels and frigates arrive.
     
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