Annexing

[Gidoza]

*shrug* You can hate me if you want - the fact of the matter is that I've played several games now where even by mid-game, the AI players have colonized everything that exists. Indeed, they'll colonize the better places first, but this hasn't stopped them from also colonizing Antarctica and the Saraha (that is, their Random Map equivalents) and utilizing considerable resources in order to make such cities effective. Presumably, this forum is for sharing experiences in order to continue the construction of this mod. Here's my experience. Take it or leave it.

 

[Takagi Hiro]

I just wanted you to know that your feelings about Gidoza mirrors my own.

Your friendship with Gazebo has inspired me to do the same. I hope such noble and just actions will persist well into the future.

(I think it goes like that!)

 

[Atlas627]

*shrug* You can hate me if you want - the fact of the matter is that I've played several games now where even by mid-game, the AI players have colonized everything that exists. Indeed, they'll colonize the better places first, but this hasn't stopped them from also colonizing Antarctica and the Saraha (that is, their Random Map equivalents) and utilizing considerable resources in order to make such cities effective. Presumably, this forum is for sharing experiences in order to continue the construction of this mod. Here's my experience. Take it or leave it.

Your initial statement was essentially "why not just make the AI smart?" which is essentially a huge insult. AI is definitely the most difficult part to program in the game and might be the most difficult thing to program period. Making the game run in any semblance of real time makes good AI exponentially harder to program. Not only is it difficult, but it is also exhaustively work-intensive and ludicrously time-consuming.

The AI is already much better than it was in vanilla, and that was the best Firaxis could do with their budget, time, and allocation of man-hours. You sound extremely unappreciative, hence the irritation.

As for sharing experiences, I haven't had the same experience as you're suggesting with the CBP AI, in stark contrast to Vanilla.

 

[Gazebo]

Thoughts on the recent changes to annexation/razing? I think they should reduce the 'raze and rebuild' cheese we've been seeing lately. Maybe. May need to increase partisans.

G

 

[Atlas627]

Thoughts on the recent changes to annexation/razing? I think they should reduce the 'raze and rebuild' cheese we've been seeing lately. Maybe. May need to increase partisans.

G

The first time I razed a city, I had captured a crappy little 3 pop city with 2 spearmen and 2 archers. Out spawn 4 Pikemen. My army got rolled.

Next time I'm prepared. I bring 2 knights, 1 musketman, 2 pikemen, and 2 composite bowman to take out and raze a 14 pop city. Not a single partisan appears.

Not sure if this is intended, but its what I've experienced so far. 2 examples is all I have

 

[Deadstarre]

was razing meant to produce partisan naval units? i've razed a few coastal or island cities and havnt seen any partisan ships, no help for the AI in that regard

I did raze a 3 pop city inland and had some very strong units pop out and surprise me, it felt balanced though and held me over for a time dealing with them instead of rolling right thru to the next city. i like the partisans so far

 

[Funak]

The first time I razed a city, I had captured a crappy little 3 pop city with 2 spearmen and 2 archers. Out spawn 4 Pikemen. My army got rolled.

Next time I'm prepared. I bring 2 knights, 1 musketman, 2 pikemen, and 2 composite bowman to take out and raze a 14 pop city. Not a single partisan appears.

Not sure if this is intended, but its what I've experienced so far. 2 examples is all I have

This is pretty much what I've been afraid of so I haven't razed anything.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Thoughts on the recent changes to annexation/razing? I think they should reduce the 'raze and rebuild' cheese we've been seeing lately. Maybe. May need to increase partisans.

G

I really, really like it. Maybe the AI needs to focus partizans on the battle at hand tho? Zulu (me) razed a Songhoi city and the partisans all marched off and took the Mayan capital ~7 turns later.

 

[Funak]

I really, really like it. Maybe the AI needs to focus partizans on the battle at hand tho? Zulu (me) razed a Songhoi city and the partisans all marched off and took the Mayan capital ~7 turns later.

Hahahaha, projected anger

 

[Gazebo]

was razing meant to produce partisan naval units? i've razed a few coastal or island cities and havnt seen any partisan ships, no help for the AI in that regard

I did raze a 3 pop city inland and had some very strong units pop out and surprise me, it felt balanced though and held me over for a time dealing with them instead of rolling right thru to the next city. i like the partisans so far

No, but I could probably add naval partisans. I was afraid it might be a bit weird. Also, yeah, the numbers on the roll are random. Sometimes you get partisans, sometimes you don't.

What about annexing? The discounted courthouse seemed like a nice incentive.

G

 

[Atlas627]

No, but I could probably add naval partisans. I was afraid it might be a bit weird. Also, yeah, the numbers on the roll are random. Sometimes you get partisans, sometimes you don't.

What about annexing? The discounted courthouse seemed like a nice incentive.

G

I think some randomization is good, but razing a crappy 3 pop city should not produce an army more powerful than mine.

I like the discounted courthouse, though I usually don't annex until I can invest in a courthouse anyway. Saves me some money, I guess?

 

[Gazebo]

I think some randomization is good, but razing a crappy 3 pop city should not produce an army more powerful than mine.

I like the discounted courthouse, though I usually don't annex until I can invest in a courthouse anyway. Saves me some money, I guess?

Right, but you only get the discount courthouse if you immediately annex upon capture.

G

 

[Funak]

Right, but you only get the discount courthouse if you immediately annex upon capture.

So you get 400(ish?) gold for the cheap price of massive unhappiness during the 20 turns the city is in resistance. Needless to say I haven't actually tried it out yet.

 

[Gazebo]

So you get 400(ish?) gold for the cheap price of massive unhappiness during the 20 turns the city is in resistance. Needless to say I haven't actually tried it out yet.

Hmm, if we need more encouragement, slicing resistance in half via annexation might be fun. You'd get the city online sooner than a puppet.

G

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Razing a player's last city has some strange consequences, especially if you make peace with them after the partisans spawn. I have a city-less Netherlands in my game at the moment.

 

[Gazebo]

Razing a player's last city has some strange consequences, especially if you make peace with them after the partisans spawn. I have a city-less Netherlands in my game at the moment.

Ah I should check for not just diplo validity, but also being alive.

G

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Ah I should check for not just diplo validity, but also being alive.

G

No, no. keep it. It's cool.

 

[Gazebo]

No, no. keep it. It's cool.

Well, but it could potentially wreak havoc with game states, as the AI isn't technically 'alive' anymore if it is eliminated via cities and you don't have complete kills on, so core components of its AI might crash if left on and it reclaimed a city.

G

 

[Deadstarre]

No, but I could probably add naval partisans. I was afraid it might be a bit weird

Need more input here maybe but I'm in favor of naval partisans as well, I wouldnt find it weird and the AI needs the help on the water. I'm pretty sure I was playing the other day, razing an island city from the water and a partisan musketman spawned on a nearby single-tile island- but of course he was useless to the fight. I put him out of his misery, but that was more weird than naval ships would be =)

Hmm, if we need more encouragement, slicing resistance in half via annexation might be fun. You'd get the city online sooner than a puppet.

Personally i wouldn't want to see resistance time lowered; city resistance helps the AI potentially take it back. The current courthouse bonus is good i think, but as he pointed out its value diminishes a bit the higher pop the city/further along into the game you are. Maybe some city yield bonus for X turns depending on pop size to go along w the courthouse? still have to wait for resistance to end for it to kick in though but it could be worth some unhappiness to get that city up to par quickly. Maybe i've been watching too much Star Trek but i'd call this bonus yield "Assimilation" =)

 

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

We could give the courthouse when you annex the city after resistance has ended, instead of having just one opportunity to do so.
However, I think this only cures the symtoms.
The underlying problem is that you can go around the resistance penalty by puppetting first and annexing later when it`s over. It is not only bad because it is an very obscure and gamey mechanic, it also punishes players who don`t know about this workaround.