Another idea... a Savior

[NeoAnderson]

In this game, it's built around the birth of Jesus of Nazareth, but if there are no Hebrews in the game, would the savior be born at that exact point in history?

The Messiah should be granted randomly to a civ whose leader has the trait Spiritual and should come at a point at which they are doing poorly. The unit would be like a supercharged version of the Great Prophet but with different effects based on religion.

You'd have a limited time, maybe 5 turns, to use the savior before it was automatically used in whatever city.

 

[MrUnderhill]

"Savior" and "Messiah" aren't very good words for it, because they're kind of limited to Christianity.

Maybe you could split Great Prophets into Great Prophets and Great Priests. You get Great Priests normally from normal priests and temples. But you only get Great Prophets when your civ founds a religion, and each religion only has one prophet. Perhaps the Prophets could instantly spread your new religion to your 5 biggest cities, as a sort of super-missionary.

It might be offensive to muslims, though, since Islam forbids even indirect depiction of prophets (IIRC, and please do correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not a muslim).

 

[Anima Croatorum]

So what would be his special action button? Get nailed to a cross?

 

[GeneralMatt]

He could go to someone who has the "Judaisim" religion, and be the only one allowed to start Christianity.

I like your idea MR Unerhill you could do , Like Budda, Mohhamed, (maybe just "islamic Prophet?") they could be "Super-duper" religous specialist, adding 5 happy faces per city, 5 hammers, 5 commerce etc. etc. etc.

 

[tableist]

Worried about offending muslims but making nailed to a cross wisecracks is just fine?

 

[AngryPants]

"It might be offensive to muslims, though, since Islam forbids even indirect depiction of prophets (IIRC, and please do correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not a muslim).

If you want to go down that road we'll have to take out the pigs, crabs, and wine resources. You know what, just take out all the resources except oil. Also better take out all the other religions, especially Judaism.</sarcasm off>
Seriously tho, if your posting from America, we have freedom of expression so draw Mohammed if you feel like it.

 

[Wyz_sub10]

Worried about offending muslims but making nailed to a cross wisecracks is just fine?

Two different people, no?

 

[MrUnderhill]

Seriously tho, if your posting from America, we have freedom of expression so draw Mohammed if you feel like it.

Like I said, I'm not a muslim, so I don't care either way (especially since I'm not making the mod).
It was just a precaution, stemming mostly from the fact that Civ3 got dinged for using Abu Bakr as Arabia's leader. No big deal.

 

[Quitos]

i think you are right MrUnderhill. it is insulting for the majority of muslims to draw Mohammed. although some accept a drawing with special manner and into special places but not into a game... may be if you got an ancient drawing done by muslims themselves it would be less insulting...

angryPants, your sarcasm is not funny. what about freedom to say and propagate KKK or Nazi propaganda... what about making fun of the jewish people in your free America... do it and tell me the backlash you will get.. in sort of 'anti-semitism' thingies...

 

[tableist]

Two different people, no?

I didn't see any objections to the comment. On the other hand, I am continously coming across cautions to sensitivity regarding Islam across this forum. And certainly it didn't take long for anyone to object to my objection. Interesting.

 

[Shqype]

tableist, I was offended by that comment as well. People should try better to respect all religions, whether they be dominant in certain areas or not.

 

[AngryPants]

i think you are right MrUnderhill. it is insulting for the majority of muslims to draw Mohammed. although some accept a drawing with special manner and into special places but not into a game... may be if you got an ancient drawing done by muslims themselves it would be less insulting...

angryPants, your sarcasm is not funny. what about freedom to say and propagate KKK or Nazi propaganda... what about making fun of the jewish people in your free America... do it and tell me the backlash you will get.. in sort of 'anti-semitism' thingies...

The entire point of the 1st Amendment is to protect offensive speech. Also, equating drawing Mohammed with Nazism is absurd. BTW, you can buy "Mein Kampf" in any bookstore or check out "Birth of a Nation" from most libraries and somehow the American people aren't rioting in the streets over it. Over here most of us believe that wrong/hateful ideologies can't stand up to the truth, so there is little or no harm in letting people spout them if they wish. Nobody gets hurt, unlike when members of a certain group rioted and killed people over a false Newsweek story about a certain book being flushed down the toilet. Did any1 other than Conan O'Brian stop and say "Wait, Books don't fit down the toilet!"? My sarcasm wasn't intended so much for humor as to ask the question: If we start censoring, where do we stop?
Anyway, back to the Mod, if some Muslims would be offended by a Mohammed unit in a Mod, they have 2 good options: A)Don't download it or B)Download it and edit him out.

 

[Quitos]

i think freedom should not used to offend people. i would respect the modder who respect others (muslims, jews, bhuddist ..etc) ,, just. being polite is not censoring,, i have seen jews offended by a saudi newspaper saying that Jews killed their prophets! The western world was offended by a little phrase from Najad of Iran! buttom line (and i think we agree on this) that freedom had to be polite..

for the mod, i'd like the idea of the savior.. many religions and cults have this idea! may be the name is christian,, but the idea is wide spread.

 

[Errata]

The game already has little prophet units, like the one in your avatar, Quitos. And some of them are given Muslim names. So I don't see how this mod would change the status quo. I don't hear anyone complaining that the female leaders aren't depicted wearing hijab, even if their state religion is Islam, or that muslim cities aren't halal. If the game offends you, you are free not to play.

 

[Errata]

By the way, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus are considered holy prophets in Islam too, so avoiding calling a prophet Muhammad wouldn't be sufficient if you want to go down that road.

 

[The Great Apple]

Why is it that all religion threads always have a little bit of flame in there somewhere. That aside - I think the basic concept is quite a good one. I'm not sure it should be used to benifit Civs that aren't doing so well... but it could be I supose. Maybe these guys should be able to found their own religion as well?

Seriously tho, if your posting from America, we have freedom of expression so draw Mohammed if you feel like it.

Or for that matter if he's posting from one of a large number of other countries...

Oh, and also:

Your rights to Freedom of Speech don't apply here.

You're in CFCland when you're posting on these forums. You don't get Freedom of Speech.

 

[Kael]

Why is it that all religion threads always have a little bit of flame in there somewhere.

We had an extended discussion on demon worship in my thread and no one had any problem with that. One guy did complain that making a dancing bear was unethical.

 

[Quitos]

i was clear when i said that drawing the prophet Mohammed offends muslims, and i said that some muslims draw MOhammed into a special non-offending form (not a caricature).. i was ONLY giving you informations... nothing is said regrding Hejab, Helal, other prophets... i have not seen a muslim offended by drawing Jesus (a prophet in islamic belief).. who told you that drawing female characters without hejab is offendingt o muslims... have you ever been in contact with a muslim!!!

 

[Quitos]

is it ok if a muslim or one from other religion did something that offends you? do you accept people offending you?!

for me i would not like to offend anybody but respect all -especially their religions- no matter how absurd it appeared to me..

 

[Errata]

Agreed, no reasonable muslim playing a Western game would be offended by the lack of hijab or halal. Similarly, no reasonable human being should be offended by the fact that sometimes the tiny little great prophet figure depicts a particular prophet. This is just a game, and while the game shouldnt go out of its way to be offensive, your alleged freedom from offense ends at the point that it cuts into gameplay.

Do I care if people offend me? People living in a modern society with a free exchange of ideas have to be used to ideas they don't agree with. You have to have a thick enough skin to only be offended by the things that really matter. People should expect their religion to be shown the courtesy of basic respect, but they shouldn't expect non-adherents to follow their restrictions to appease them.