Another stupid culture flip

[Regordete]

Here's a game I'm playing on the regent level - honest - no reloading or trainers involved. I've captured this little island off my NW coast, Hyderabad. I captured this island ( this two suqare junk) from Japan about 100 years ago. With no imports or rushing - I've built a coastal fortress and temple and the culture is about 34 moves into the *second* expansion ( i.e., 34/100). There are no borders even touching Japan. It's a stone's throw from my capital. It has 4 garrison - thats 2 per square! Japan is up to no good all the way over on the east coast - dancing ironclad's around like a headless chicken. Of course the AI says - Japan doesn't have enough power. Japan doesn't own all the resources that matter ( I guess I should be grateful for the horses and iron). The AI says - I'm going to steal your stuff.

As far as I'm concerned, this is strike 2 for this hack. If so much luck is involved and its nothing but a glorified coin flip ( with worse odds at higher levels) how in the heck could a strategy even exist?

And of course - here is the saved game - just hit space. Its flipped 3 out of 3 times I reloaded it.

 

[damunzy]

Just a tip, if you have the random seed set to stay the same on reload no matter how many times you reload and hit space the results will be the same.
Next time zip the file please. I know it will probably only reduce it to 50K from 200K but every little bit helps. For a good and free Zip program try www.ultimatezip.com <- it is completely free, not sharware.

 

[Regordete]

I do have save seed enabled but I don't know how that works with the voodoo ( read hack) of culture flipping. There was game I uploaded about a week ago with rand seed saved, but the towns in question only flipped about 50% of the time. But I know a little better how the auto save works now and how to isolate the position - so perhaps thats it.

 

[damunzy]

Originally posted by Regordete
There was game I uploaded about a week ago with rand seed saved, but the towns in question only flipped about 50% of the time.

On that game did you do anything different than saving, hitting space, flipping, reloading, hitting space, ....?
Maybe the sed works differently in different patches when relating to culture flips....Firaxis needs to add more information in their changes.txt for the different patches. But I am thankful for Firaxis guys like Mike B. and Dan M. that come by and update us everyonce in a while.
Why doesn't Soren ever vist us? What is so damn good about Poly?!?!?

 

[etj4Eagle]

I'll have to wait till monday when I can play the game and look at your file to give you a better answer since you did not include all the details in this post.

But I am assuming that there are Japanese foreignors in this city? You mention that you are approaching your second culture expansion, so I am assuming you control all 21 of the working tiles. Otherwise each tile is equivelent to a foreignor. And I am also assuming non of those foreignors are resisting, or count them double.

Since this is a captured city, your local culture is probably less than the Japanese culture. Consequently you need two units per "foreignor" to negate out the chance to flip.

The distance to capital and overall culture only affect the size of the die throw used to determine a flip. Ie if you have 5 after taking into account the garrison. That may be out of 2000 or 5000 depending on the other two factors.

 

[Regordete]

After reading the other thread, I'm bumping this up and providing more info on the city that flipped. I really want to understand this part of the game.

The number of foreigners in the city is 4
(seems I'd get some credit for two Aztecs born after taking the city but i guess I don't)

Tiles under foreign control - 0

Cc - Local culture - 1 (the only culture in the city is a temple I built over 30 turns)

H - 1 (normal state - no civil disorder etc.)

Cte /Cty aprox 1.5 ( looking at the histograph it looks like they have about 50% more national culture)

Garrisons - 4 (infanty)

Relative distance to capitals

I'm not sure how to calculate this, but by taking the shortest rout, the city is 10 tiles from my capital and 18 tiles from their's.

This flip blows my mind because while it is a border city, it doesn't border the culture it flipped to. Any light you can shed on this would be appreciated.

 

[Zouave]

Why should this surprise you??

I once was destroying the Greeks. I had twenty-four towns and cities, he had two towns left.

I took his capital; the capital just jumped to the last remaining town - a small one on a nearby island. (Jumping capitals is also dumb and a form of AI cheat; there's hardly any reason to attack the capital anymore).

So I have twenty-five towns and cities to the Greeks' one town. I have a gigantic army two tiles away from the town I just took. with four units inside it.

You guessed it, that town promptly flipped back to the Greeks! Of course it then got razed. All that because of the absurd idea that proximity to the enemy capital is important, but proximity of a gigantic army ready to exterminate them counts for nothing. The citizens of that town would have had to be insane to revolt in such a situation, and of course my garrison vanished into thin air.

Conclusion: if you are looking for logic or realism with Culture Flipping, don't waste your time.

 

[alexander dumas]

I love that it was the Greeks that asserted their nationality in the face of destruction. Won't they ever learn?!

I think that my relationship with the AI in this game often follows that of Athens and Melos.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/melian.htm

 

[rangers85]

Originally posted by Zouave
(Jumping capitals is also dumb and a form of AI cheat; there's hardly any reason to attack the capital anymore).

Zouave, how is this an AI cheat? If your capital is captured, etc. your capital jumps as well, so I'm just not seeing how you say this is an AI cheat.

 

[God]

Every single thing that makes the game any harder for him is a cheat. Don't bother to reply to his posts. They are all the same. "Its a bug. Another AI cheat. Firaxis ripped us off. blah blah blah..."

 

[Qitai]

Originally posted by Zouave
You guessed it, that town promptly flipped back to the Greeks! Of course it then got razed. All that because of the absurd idea that proximity to the enemy capital is important, but proximity of a gigantic army ready to exterminate them counts for nothing. The citizens of that town would have had to be insane to revolt in such a situation, and of course my garrison vanished into thin air.

Conclusion: if you are looking for logic or realism with Culture Flipping, don't waste your time.

It does happen in History, at least in chinese history. In fact, after being captured by the Mongols with no capital remaining, the whole china flipped back to chinese rule many years later. Resistance and culture flip are part of national/ethinic pride. It uses no reason and has no fear to huge army. Though, as part of game play, I hate the disappearing troops part, regardless of whether it is historically correct.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Regordete
Here's a game I'm playing on the regent level - honest - no reloading or trainers involved.

I can see why they revolted, starting with the captured city of Hyderabad where you have unhappy exotics without a sufficient garrison. You have plenty of infantry, but only a four in Hyderabad. Hyderabad is on an island, which gives encouragement to radical elements, and makes recovery difficult. You are not rushing improvements in Hyderabad, so the people feel that Aztec rule means taxation without representation. Indeed, if you want Hyderabad to be a military outpost, you must exert your long-term control by building the infrastructure to make Hyderabad a modern Aztec city; police station, airport, cathedral. This takes cash.

You are keeping up in technology, so you should consider setting your taxes to 50% cash, 40% science, 10% luxuries (+/- 10%). That gives you 243g per turn, which should be sufficient to upgrade your culture and infrastructure, not just in Hyderabad, but in all your cities. Having your cities produce wealth is usually not profitable -- in the long run.

'

Those are the buildings not yet completed in the Tenochtitlan, including the desperately needed hospital. Nearly all cities have stopped building improvements.

 

[Koronin]

If there's one thing worse than a culture flip (Something I hardly experience), it's the endless whining about them.