Another thing about Manhattan as small wonder

[The_Newbie]

As most of you know from the rrecent interview, the Manhattan project is a small wonder. The obvious result of this is that people will want too build Manhattan again. However there is another result. We will finally be able to stop nukes from entering the game at all. How? Just capture the Manhattan project city. Problem solved.

 

[DaEezT]

hmm, but how does it work in the game? that would mean you have that wonder twice under your control (given that you already built it)
and how about the enemy? small wonders = once per civ, does the captured wonder still count as the civ's wonder and thus prevents them from rebuilding it or can they build it again now that it is under your control?

And, I don't wanna crush all hopes but i think taking the Manhattan project city wont solve the problem. I think you just need Manhattan project to start building nukes and you can do so even when you lose control over it...

 

[freemen]

A little precison. Once u captuer a small wonder, the small wonder in that city is destroy.

Since the small wonder is destroy, i think, u should be able to reconstruct it. So even if u capture the city, he will be able to recontruct the wonder.

 

[The_Newbie]

Yes, but it will take some time to build, being a (small) wonder.

 

[H Tower]

i think its stupid that if the manhattan project is destroyed that a civ can't build nukes anymore. by destroying another civs manhattan project, you can institute a nuke war and the other civ will only be able to respond with existing nukes. I can see the poin about not allowing the bonus anymore if the ironworks small wonder is destroyed, but not the manhattan project

 

[yahmon]

If you want to stop Nukes, don't go after wonders, control all the uranium in the world and if you can't control it, destroy the resource by pillaging it. I think Civ3 is going to be great because it'll make alot of people used to Civ series to play a completely different (more involved and intelligent) game. Looks like alot of finesse will be required and you can't expect to win thru science and military tech anymore. I hope they will have all the goodie huts predetermined to eliminate the reload cheat.

 

[kundor]

Small wonders can only be built once by a civ. If it's destroyed, you can't build another one.

 

[Robespierre]

We will finally be able to stop nukes from entering the game at all. How? Just capture the Manhattan project city. Problem solved.

If you capture the Manhattan Project City, they can just re-build the wonder in some other city. Not much good that does you.

I'm worried that if some civ gets technologically too ahead of the rest, they can build Manhattan and just start nuking the hell out of everybody else, hence securing a cheap victory. Nukes should have big negative consequences on the user as far as your own population's reponse, assuming you are a democratic type of government. And I'm assuming that since the project is a small wonder, it becomes available not with technology but with some special conditions, so other civs can't just steal your technology to protect themselves.

 

[Cluk]

You can't rebuild small wonders and they can't transfer between civs (at least not when the city is conquered.) I bet that if you make the project at some point, you can always build nukes.

 

[pansophy]

Wait a minute...you can't rebuild small wonders if your cities are captured??

Can someone confirm that _ that seems awefully harsh. With great wonders you can at least recapture the city and gain the benefits again.

It seems silly to not be able to rebuild a small wonder, I mean that could be a real strategy _ go after cities with small wonders. Even if you can't hold the city you could cripple the civ for the rest of the game.

 

[Conditional Zenith]

Originally posted by yahmon
If you want to stop Nukes, don't go after wonders, control all the uranium in the world and if you can't control it, destroy the resource by pillaging it.

I don't think you can pillage resources

 

[yahmon]

I'm pretty sure that I read that you could somewhere. You can destroy roads and improvements obviously.

 

[JayKay]

Originally posted by pansophy
Wait a minute...you can't rebuild small wonders if your cities are captured??

Can someone confirm that _ that seems awefully harsh. With great wonders you can at least recapture the city and gain the benefits again.

It seems silly to not be able to rebuild a small wonder, I mean that could be a real strategy _ go after cities with small wonders. Even if you can't hold the city you could cripple the civ for the rest of the game.

(http://www.civ3.com/devupdate.cfm)

The 2nd paragraph of the above webpage reads as follows:

"Small Wonders are a new type of Wonder that can be built by every civ, but only once."

If u read carefully u i'll see that "..., but only once", so they can't be rebuilt!

It's just like Great Wonders that reads as follows:

"They can be built only once, and are winner take all -- whomever completes the Wonder first reaps the rewards."

Here again it says "...built only once,...". This ones can't be rebuilt too. (i think every one knew this one, but this was just for comparision purposes)

_________________________________________________

Portugal - Nation of Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition)

 

[The_Newbie]

I think what they meant is each civ can only OWN one of each small wonder.

 

[Baleog]

Is it definitly known that capturing a city destroys its small wonders? Could they be recaptured, at the risk of destroying them?

Also it is possible for resources to become depleted, so maybe with a specific unit you could pillage resources ( eg the engineer (do they replace workers after some advance in civ3 (explosives, say?)))

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Ok, so maybe small wonders don't get destroyed when you invade an enemy city that has one. Probably what happens is it stays in the city, but if you already have that small wonder, you get no additional benefit. That way the small wonder could be recaptured.

So for the manhattan project, it would look something like this in the city's improvements list:

Manhattan Project (Inactive)
or

Manhattan Project (Redundant)

or whatever. It just seems wrong that wonders (small or large) can be destroyed without completely destroying the city.

 

[vanniken]

I hope they will have all the goodie huts predetermined to eliminate the reload cheat.
-----------
btw, i'm also curious if they've eliminated the necessity to reload due to RND factor of huts' content; while that possibility rocked sometimes, especially if you had 3 full of mafia in a row (to avoid the 4th you could reload before exploring the next one), it somehow makes situation unfair, cause everyone know human behaviour - if one have a slightest "officially allowed" chance to cheat, it will be cheated

 

[JayKay]

Originally posted by Sparrowhawk
Ok, so maybe small wonders don't get destroyed when you invade an enemy city that has one. Probably what happens is it stays in the city, but if you already have that small wonder, you get no additional benefit. That way the small wonder could be recaptured.

So for the manhattan project, it would look something like this in the city's improvements list:

Manhattan Project (Inactive)
or

Manhattan Project (Redundant)

or whatever. It just seems wrong that wonders (small or large) can be destroyed without completely destroying the city.

Again in the same site (http://www.civ3.com/devupdate.cfm)

You can read as follows:

"Also, Small Wonders in a city are destroyed when that city is captured, whereas Great Wonders can be captured."

So, the Small Wonders are definitely destroyed!!!!!

Don't need to argue anymore....did anyone saw the site?

(the site mencioned is the official civ 3 website)
_________________________________________________

Portugal - Nation of Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition)

 

[Sparrowhawk]

JayKay, you're absolutely, awfully correct.

1. A small wonder can only be built once by any civ.
and
2. Small wonders are destroyed if an enemy captures the city.

I guess we'll just have to place the wonders in defensible cities, or not make any enemies.

This will screw some things up though. For example: the Forbidden Palace. In order for it to be useful at all, the FP must be placed in a far flung corner of your empire (translated: poorly defended).

 

[Robespierre]

No, no, no, you're wrong...

When they say "It can only be built once by each civ" they mean that YOU CAN ONLY BUILD IT IN ONE CITY AND NOT BUILD IT AGAIN UNLESS IT IS DESTROYED, so instead of being by just one civ (like great wonders) they are constructed in one city by each civ. Even a Granary can only be built once... per city. That doesn't mean you can't rebuild the Granary if it is destroyed or falls out of maintenance, does it? So if your small wonder city gets invaded, you can just rebuild it elsewhere.


We rebuilt the Pentagon, didn't we?