Any guess on what will happen to Erdo-Turkey now that it downed a russian plane?

[Akka]

The Russians should stop violating the sovereign airspace of other countries.This was inevitability due to their intrusive nature. Had this been in any other NATO country there wouldn't have even been a question, the aircraft would have been shot out of the sky just as it was

I don't know in which world you're living, but Russia has playing this game of violating NATO airspace for years now (with actual real serious potential consequences, like the time one of these "joke" nearly ended in a fighter colliding with a commercial airplane).

They still haven't been fired at.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

I don't know in which world you're living, but Russia has playing this game of violating NATO airspace for years now (with actual real serious potential consequences, like the time one of these "joke" nearly ended in a fighter colliding with a commercial airplane).

They still haven't been fired at.

The worst thing that happens is you get cool photos:

 

[red_elk]

The worst thing that happens is you get cool photos

Notice that you posted also cool photos of Russian interceptors, made from patrolling NATO aircraft. Violations of airspace (or rather, patrolling close to it), are mutual.

 

[Daw]

The worst thing that happens is you get cool photos

In fact, these photos suggest that the sky was crowded enough every time with a THIRD aircraft to make the photos from.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

It is because in scrambles fighters usually fly in pairs.

Notice that you posted also cool photos of Russian interceptors, made from patrolling NATO aircraft. Violations of airspace (or rather, patrolling close to it), are mutual.

You mean the Eurofighter was intercepted by the Flanker? Where did that happened?

Anyway in most cases it is about russian aircraft, mostly bombers, being intercepted by NATO (or swedish) fighters not the other way around.

 

[red_elk]

Anyway in most cases it is about russian aircraft, usually bombers, being intercepted by NATO (or swedish) fighters not the other way around.

Bombers don't violate airspace, they patrol neutral area and get escorted by interceptors whenever they approach foreign airspace.

If you are talking about violations, as far as I know, they sometimes happen from both sides, but done by high-speed aircraft only. Russia doesn't just move Tu-95 into US or EU airspace, that would be quite a bold move.

 

[Verbose]

You mean the Eurofighter was intercepted by the Flanker? Where did that happened?

Anyway in most cases it is about russian aircraft, usually bombers, being intercepted by NATO (or swedish) fighters not the other way around.

Or the Finnish airforce. And the Turks have also been complaining of late.

Most of these are cases of providing a plane with an "overcoat", and mostly it occurs outside actual national airspace. There are encroachments from both sides. But NATO flew 500+ sorties of this kind in 2014, and 85% of those involved Russian aircraft.

Then it's a further annoyance that for undisclosed reasons the Russians have more or less stopp announcing flight-paths in advance, and more often than not fly with their transponders off, making the Russian military flights effectively invisible to civilian air-traffic control. At the very least it seems reasonable to infer that the Russian authorities sees some kind of value in increasing levels of uncertanity and danger to civilian air-traffic, and costs for the westerners. It tends to re-militarise civilian air-traffic where Russia choses to operate, since it requires military radar to watch out for the civilian side.

 

[Daw]

Anyway in most cases it is about russian aircraft, mostly bombers, being intercepted by NATO (or swedish) fighters not the other way around.

I always somehow thought it was not exactly intercepting but more like an escorting as a precaution. So it does not necessarily involve any incursion at all.

Edit: crosspost with Red_Elk & Verbose

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Bombers don't violate airspace, they patrol neutral area and get escorted by interceptors whenever they approach foreign airspace.

If you are talking about violations, as far as I know, they sometimes happen from both sides, but done by high-speed aircraft only. Russia doesn't just move Tu-95 into US or EU airspace, that would be quite a bold move.

But it is always a russian bomber the one coming near NATO airspace and being scrambled, not the oposite. I always wonder of what use are these missions for Russia beyond a waste of fuel, because those tu 26 and 142 must be huge gas-guzzlers.

Edit: lots of crossposts

 

[r16]

the Flanker and Typhoon picture is from an event when a "massive" Russian aerial armada appeared off the UK . Russian interceptions are regularly rated as "combat" , with them seriously sensitive about out of the blue attacks on places like Moscow .

all those flights regularly involve electronic "sniffing" of "hostile" sets ; they are worthwhile . And of course , let's not forget the 2001 incident where this USN Orion collided with a Chinese fighter and landed in Hainan , showing the Chinese were worthless people and should not dare one moment to involve themselves in the invasion of Afghanistan , which of course had not happened at the time , May ı should say ...

 

[Daw]

I always wonder of what use are these missions for Russia beyond a waste of fuel, because those tu 26 and 142 must be huge gas-guzzlers.

No idea. Drills?

 

[Flying Pig]

I don't know in which world you're living, but Russia has playing this game of violating NATO airspace for years now (with actual real serious potential consequences, like the time one of these "joke" nearly ended in a fighter colliding with a commercial airplane).

They still haven't been fired at.

Most of those cases are when they fly into the interception zone, which is wider than the country's actual airspace. They do that to test how quickly (say) the RAF come up to meet them, which for obvious reasons should happen before they actually get anywhere that could cause damage.

 

[red_elk]

But it is always a russian bomber the one coming near NATO airspace and being scrambled, not the oposite.

There were opposite cases, involving NATO recon aircraft near Russian airspace.

Picture of escorting Flanker, captured from US RC-135U plane in Baltic. April, 2015.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

In that case the finality of the RC-135 was clear: to spy Russia. .

Russia otoh and according to Verbose post does it mostly to annoy it seems.

 

[Daw]

Russia otoh and according to Verbose post does it mostly to annoy it seems.

No, Flying Pig's reasoning seems quite realistic to me.

OTOH, annoyance is an emotion, it happens not as a result of somebody's actions but because of neural biochemical/biophysical processes happening between someone's ears. So it's not what somebody does, but what somebody feels (about something, including someone else's actions).

So, basically it's not an action, it is a [way of] perception.

Edit: ... and not a really constructive/helpful one.

 

[red_elk]

Russia otoh and according to Verbose post does it mostly to annoy it seems.

Obviously not, there's no reason to waste resources on such non-constructive thing as annoying somebody. At least on a state level

Those are recon flights too, the goal is to probe defenses, measure reaction time, stuff like that.

They do that to test how quickly (say) the RAF come up to meet them, which for obvious reasons should happen before they actually get anywhere that could cause damage.

And with cruise missile range of a few thousand kilometers...

 

[Verbose]

But it is always a russian bomber the one coming near NATO airspace and being scrambled, not the oposite. I always wonder of what use are these missions for Russia beyond a waste of fuel, because those tu 26 and 142 must be huge gas-guzzlers.

Edit: lots of crossposts

Ah, oh... "Always" is a big word here.

It's for certain that Swedish SigInt aircraft operate in international airspace outside places like Kaliningrad on a regular basis. Occasionally the Russian make a point of going up and running them off. It's however become a bit of a point with the Swedish "spy planes" to make sure their transponder is in the "on" position.

Also if and when the Russians mount one of their naval exercises in the Baltic, the area just outside it tends to be crawling with aricraft, surface vessels, subs, of various nationalities, just... surveying stuff. But then occasionally an aircraft does also buzz the Russian vessels, to get a closer look.

If looking for a Russian use for flying their heavy bombers, then practice is a good a reason as any. Use it or lose it, tends to hold true. Parts of how the Russian airforce currently flies their training missions however seem designed to provoke-while-training however. It might involve collecting data on abilities and attitudes of western airforces feeling obliged to fly intercept missions though.

 

[Verbose]

Obviously not, there's no reason to waste resources on such non-constructive thing as annoying somebody. At least on a state level

That's not what specifically fiddling with the transponders say though.

 

[Akka]

Ah, I (nearly) missed the ability of the Kremlin mouthpieces to be able to twist about everything to improve Russia outlook regardless of what is actually done. Some things don't change (though the mental gymnastic of supporting Assad "because he's the best way to fight ISIL" while bombing the actual guys who fight against ISIL was already rather funny in a totally not funny way).

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

everything you see wrong about Turkey is directly related to getting us on the wrong side so that John Doe and Joe Public will understand the necessity of creating a 'stan , so that we all can be killed like dogs .

It seems to me that Kurds are nationalist trying to achieve self-rule not an islamist keen on killing others like a dogs.

I am reading that Erdogan is having some journalist and high ranking ex-army personel to lock up for threason becouse they let out some info about "humanitarian" convoys supplying weapons to an-Nusra and ISIL. Even though this may be in line with uncle Joes secretive plans and in accordance with some of the rich gulf states who support the islamist it definitely doesnt rhyme well with general public opinion in the West.