Any mod to limit AI stacks of doom?

[feydras]

I've been playing FFH since FFH 1 (yeah really) along with tons of the modmods. I love this mod. Lately it has become unplayable for me and i'd love some help because judging by the lack of forum complaints about this i seem to be alone in this problem.

Since one of the later patches the stacks have gotten absurd. Stacks of hundreds at times, and then all those priests summon tigers! I first remember seeing this in Orbis awhile back and thought it was unique to that modmod. But have found it true in v.o and more recently even after installing Tholal's More Naval mod.

My problem is i cannot find a playable difficulty level. Whatever i do huge stacks of doom eventually come calling. The easier i set the difficulty the more i completely dominate the AI in every other way. I can win the game but that is always dependent on avoiding most wars or avoiding them until i can build some specific counter like the Hall of Mirrors.

My preferred playstyle is Huge worlds on Epic speed and yeah, i realize this exasperates the problem so lately i have tried normal speed and smaller worlds. Still finding the game unplayable. Even on Noble difficulty, normal speed i get stacks of 50-60 promoted champions coming at me as soon as i can rush tech to longbowmen.

Few questions:
1. Is anyone currently playing a game of FFH that is competive against the AI and still able to survive wars? If so please tell me how.
2. Is there a modmod or code alteration that would limit the number of units in a stack. I know this is successfully addressed in the Master of Mana mod and i love that modmod but am missing the more normal FFH, FF, Orbis gameplay.
3. What patch did the stacks skyrocket to their current insane size? I have all of the patches saved but 'n' i think.

Thanks for tolerating this long request. I'd really like to get back to enjoying FFH. It has given me more hours of enjoyment than any other computer game ever.

Thanks for any help!

 

[ivanbin]

If you mean Armageddon counter, and if its the 100% kill everything part that gets you, what about phoenix ritual?
Had a game when i finished it at the same turn the world blew up, allowed me to dominate everyone that weren't hell, because they lost most of their units, while I lost none.

 

[BobCW]

Huge AI stacks have been a reality for pretty much every version of FFH I've played. No offense, it sounds like your main issue is strategy. I realize that huge builder games can be fun, but if you don't have the right counters up early enough, the AI is more often then not going to knock down your sandcastle.


Mostly you need collateral. Especially collateral damage which effects every unit in a stack- the Ritualist's Ring of Fire and Maelstrom (available at Air II) are probably your best options. Also useful are spells which otherwise weaken entire AI stacks (such as Rust), and especially those which freeze them in place (Blinding Light / Slow / Entangle). Once an AI stack is crippled, you should be able to pick it apart at will- high mobility, high attack units are good options, like Chariots.


The Hall of Mirrors and Longbowmen are both fairly poor counters to massive AI stacks. The Hall can only duplicate a single unit a turn (so it's useless vs. 60+), and LB are really only useful when defending cities and worse on attack than Champs- and you want to have an "active" defense, and not passively camp in your cities hoping you can ride out the enemy.



For an example of players defeating massive, advanced AI armies, check out this thread:

http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5343


It's a SG where the players were forbidden to share any information with each other. It's often hilarious at the start, and gets epic towards the end

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

he's right and one of the FFH patches merged in Wild Mana tweaks that result in the AI creating giant armies. patch H to be exact, so if you can grab patch G give that a try and let us know the difference

 

[feydras]

Thanks for directing me to the right patch Gecko. Kael supplied all the old patches in the main Bug thread so i'll try that. Shame to have to go back so far and loose all the following fixes, art, and features.

I'm still hoping someone who reads this will know if there is a way to isolate the problem and correct it.

BobCW - thanks for the strategy ideas and for pointing me away from my faulty ones. I had forgotten about the Blinding Light spell. I used to use that a lot but never liked it as it felt exploitative stopping the whole AI stack. I guess that's what i don't like about the current/final build. I hate that the AI plays so much differently than how the player could play that to combat them you are forced to use such specific maneuvers. Takes me out of roleplay mode which is my favorite way to play.

 

[TheLazyHase]

I hate that the AI plays so much differently than how the player could play that to combat them you are forced to use such specific maneuvers. Takes me out of roleplay mode which is my favorite way to play.

I am not sure of what is different between an AI conquest strategy and mine. I believe I take more attention not to suicide high experienced unit and use mage better, but other than that...

 

[Goodwill]

You could also consider looking into Master of Mana, the successor to Wild Mana. It plays very differently, especially magic and economy, so its kind of like ffh but in many ways a different game. The AI last I checked (it has been awhile though) is really very good, but there are no stacks of doom whatsoever. In fact there is a unit limit per tile - i think i remember only one unit per tile, maybe it was three. If you dont like stacks and want to play a fantasy ffh kind of game, Master of Mana may really be worth looking into. I believe there's a link in the Wild Mana subforum.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

there is NO per tile unit limit in Master of Mana, but there is a supply mechanic that means you can't build an infinite amount of units.

 

[OgreMonk]

Actually, MoM has one of those experimental options for 3 upt. Never tried it though..

 

[feydras]

Played some MoM and did really enjoy it. I love the world spellcasting reminds me very much of the very old Master of Magic game. The supply mechanic does do away with the stacks of doom and yet the AI stays competitive. I really appreciated that. Never tried the "experimental" 3 units per tile option as didn't need to. Great mod but after awhile it made me miss the old FFH and it's other modmods.

 

[feydras]

In the spirit of BobCW's suggestions i went with the Mind 2 spell Charm to stop stacks. It worked. Problem is each casting completely immobilizes the entire enemy stack even though most resist. This feels like cheating as with one Mind 2 mage in a city the city is invincible. Yes it stops the stacks but isn't functioning like it is supposed to. That's the reason why i originally abandoned that spell and the similar effect Blinding Light (IIRC). The result of that abandonment is i am at the mercy of the ridiculous AI no-maintenance stacks.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

the problem with that is actually that the AI will keep the entire stack immobile if even 1 unit is immobile. IIRC wild mana and Tholal's mod should fix that

 

[Goodwill]

If I remember, there's a line of code or something (that I guess could be inserted) that limits the number of units on a tile to a specified number. I don't know it, and don't remember where I saw it. Might be worth searching here or the bts modder forums for it, or even scanning mom's files for it somewhere.

 

[ivanbin]

They have a feature like that in RifE if im not mistaken.