Any reason as of why Russia is focused on religion?

[Infiltrator]

Production from tundra is fine and makes sense, in fact production should be the centerpiece of Russia, so why invovle faith at all? Russia and Russians were never that big on faith. Sure, there's the orthodox church but it's hardly as defining of the nation. I'd understand if, apart from production, an emphasis was given to science (in the later eras) or culture even (writers/musicians), but, honestly, religion?

 

[Martinus]

We actually had a pretty lengthy thread on this pre-release.

Cliff notes: Russian orthodox church has always been a very strong supporter of the government until communism (and is still one again), and given that Faith in game can be used to buy great people, this also ties in nicely with the number of great people Russia historically produced. Also, giving Russia (or anyone) a unique Campus would be potentially too OP, as, along with the Holy Site, it is the only other ancient era district (although Encampment might be one too), so the Holy Site seemed like a good in-game choice.

 

[Infiltrator]

There's many religious institutions that supported governments of the existing civs on and off during the eras, Russia is hardly different in that aspect to be honest. I wouldn't say giving russia a unique campus would be OP, first because campuses and science in general isn't nearly as important now, and second, it doesn't have to be a campus, it can be a building in it or a science building in the capital. Lavra is just meh, I feel like they ran out of religious civs for release and just jammed it in russians for no other reason.

 

[Morningcalm]

There's no real historical reason to pair Russia under Peter the Great with religion, no. Peter the Great was famously averse to religion and religious people. You will note that the Civilopedia entry on Peter interestingly avoids mentioning that, even though it is prominently featured in the Wikipedia article on which the Civilopedia article is based (and you can see this with other leaders' Civilopedia pages too).

And yes, we had a lengthy discussion on this issue.

Frankly, it makes no historical sense. Russia being expansionist and scientific makes sense (which part of their civ/leader ability includes). But the religion part? And making the Lavra generate Great People points? Nah, that was due to a desire to get some unique gameplay elements, though frankly they would make more sense with India/Arabia/other civs we popularly associate with "religion".

 

[Infiltrator]

That's quite funny how they copy-paste the article then avoid parts that conflict with the gameplay's depiction of the nation.

Russia was always famous for being highly competitive in science and engineering particularly post WW1, giving them a special holy site is just, for a lack of a better word - stupid. Like you said there's plenty of civs that could use a religious theme, Russia is, from a historical sense, probably the worst candidate for it.

 

[Morningcalm]

Completely agreed.

 

[Cerilis]

That's quite funny how they copy-paste the article then avoid parts that conflict with the gameplay's depiction of the nation.

Russia was always famous for being highly competitive in science and engineering particularly post WW1, giving them a special holy site is just, for a lack of a better word - stupid. Like you said there's plenty of civs that could use a religious theme, Russia is, from a historical sense, probably the worst candidate for it.

Important part bolded. And I might put that even to "post WW2". The russian empire was seen as rather backwards before the soviet union. Gamebalance aside, why would they make it a science civ just for like, their history in the later half of the 20th century.

Also, as multiple leaders are given, anything but Peter's ability has naught to do with him, yet the whole of Russia instead.
Though I have no idea what role religion played in russia pre-soviets or pre-tsars.

 

[Infiltrator]

Important part bolded. And I might put that even to "post WW2". The russian empire was seen as rather backwards before the soviet union. Gamebalance aside, why would they make it a science civ just for like, their history in the later half of the 20th century.

Also, as multiple leaders are given, anything but Peter's ability has naught to do with him, yet the whole of Russia instead.
Though I have no idea what role religion played in russia pre-soviets or pre-tsars.

Engineering and science were in full swing pre-ww2 for sure. The timeframe is of little import - Russia has made a huge impact on the world due to its science and engineering, not religion and that is the important part that should be bolded.

 

[Cerilis]

Engineering and science were in full swing pre-ww2 for sure. The timeframe is of little import - Russia has made a huge impact on the world due to its science and engineering, not religion and that is the important part that should be bolded.

You could say the same about for example 20th century United States, Germany, or even Japan though. If the civ was called "Soviet Union", I might agree, but what makes Russia special to have the whole of its history summed up to the (rather uncomfortable, as seen by the devs) model of a science civ?

Don't get me wrong, even with my limited knowledge about Russian history, I agree that religion is a weird choice for them too, but I also dont think they should be purely about science. Expansion should be their main focus, and maybe small scale industry (small scale as in, usable for many small cities).

 

[Gehennas]

Sorry, but I am going to disagree.
First of all, after the fall of Constantinople Moscow became the center of Eastern Orthodox Church.
Second, while Peter the Great was opposed to the church, he put the church under govermental control: this way it supported the "divine right" of Russian emperors and became the important participant of the state propaganda.
Third, the the bolsheviks actively opposed the church only for 2-3 decades. Now, after the fall of Soviet Union it is gaining the power quickly.

So, I think, Lavra makes sense. Actually, much more than any kind of scentific UB/UD.

 

[knightblaster]

Orthodoxy and the Orthodox Church are totally defining of Russia as a nation. The only reason anyone would say otherwise is because of the time period from 1917 onward. But prior to that, Orthodoxy defined Russia in a huge way.

 

[Ryika]

I think they just wanted a Religion to start in the colder areas for once after the many Desert Folklores of Civ V.

Makes sense gameplay-wise, after all, if you start at the edge of the map, which you will always do with a Tundra Bias, you'll have a different experience of spreading your religion to everybody, than if you start in the middle of the map, like some of the traditional religious starts.

In either case, I think historical authenticity is just the "weakest link" when you're trying to mix Civilizations that are likely to sell the game with making every sponsor feel distinct, while also balancing the amount of Civs that on a specific feature of the game. I expect to see more of it in the future.

 

[greygr]

Russia is good in science (since later XVIII till now, especially in soviet era), very strong in army forces (btw, first standing army formed in Russia in 1550), excelent in defence and in nuclear industry (inc. nuclear weapons). BUT! Orthodoxal church merged to Russia from Byzantia. Every monaster was built as Outpost to prevent nomadic hordes
typical Lavra:


Quote by Alexander II (XIX cent.): "Russia — the state not trade and not agricultural, but military"

 

[Gehennas]

Russia is good in science (since later XVIII till now, especially in soviet era)

Unfortunately, I am going to disagree on that too.
Russia was already technologically backward in the middle of XIX century: both Russian army and fleet were terribly ouclassed by English and French during the Crimean War.

Also, the USSR was completely ignoring the scientific disciplines that do not have direct impact on military. Even worse, genetics, for example, was banned till 60-s.

 

[pietro1990]

eastern ortodox? we all thinx of russia as a communist country wich bans religion.
but before that it was a heavy religious country with eastern ortodox as main religion and with unique cathedrals

 

[Sagax]

As someone who spent the entire childhood in Russia, I find Lavras totally fine as a UD for the civ. Religion is one of the aspects of Russia that isn't shown to the outsiders, but it does leave its mark on the society - not in an obvious way like Islam, but the presence is definitely there. When most kids are given a cross necklace to wear and most drivers decorate their panels with icons portraying Thier Lady, you know that religion is not something to dismiss.

What DOESN'T make sense is faith from tundra tiles. Some tried to link this to beliefs of Siberian ethnic minorities, but honestly Russia couldn't care less about those. It's just an attempt at justifying Russia's tundra bias, and I've never been a fan of that.

 

[Cerilis]

Unfortunately, I am going to disagree on that too.
Russia was already technologically backward in the middle of XIX century: both Russian army and fleet were terribly ouclassed by English and French during the Crimean War.

Also, the USSR was completely ignoring the scientific disciplines that do not have direct impact on military. Even worse, genetics, for example, was banned till 60-s.

I agree, they were even beaten by the Japanese, and those themselves just had started industrializing , after coming out of basically 250 years of technological stagnancy.

 

[GhostSalsa]

“How many inhabitants are there

in Moscow? How many houses? Is it true that Moscow is called 'Holy Moscow'? How many churches are there in Moscow?" he asked.
And receiving the reply that there were more than two hundred churches, he remarked:
"Why such a quantity of churches?"
"The Russians are very devout," replied Balashev.
"But a large number of monasteries and churches is always a sign of the backwardness of a people," said Napoleon, turning to Caulaincourt for appreciation of this remark.
Balashev respectfully ventured to disagree with the French Emperor.
"Every country has its own character," said he.
"But nowhere in Europe is there anything like that," said Napoleon.
"I beg your Majesty's pardon," returned Balashev, "besides Russia there is Spain, where there are also many churches and monasteries.”

 

[Lord Lakely]

I wouldn't even call the Lavra a religion-based UD though because provides Great People Points for writers, artists and musicians. It's a culture district as much as it is a faith one.