Any simple way to create speed in between standard and epic?

[Jeddite]

I've experimented with two files cause they seemingly are providing a way to just adjust numerically everything: GameSpeedChanges.sql which has stuff like instant yield scaling and DifficultyChanges.xml which has stuff like player and AI policy, unit, building cost.

I wonder if there is simple way to adjust standard/epic to be exactly half the epic extra time, so +25% to everything, as standard is 100 and epic 150 in the files, that would be 125. Epic feels too sluggish, while standard reduces "empire building" aspect a lot, you basically start good, then rush mid-classical - renaissance, then everything is cooling down again and costs od buildings and tech rise significantly for a nice pace, but as soon as you past corporations and dig into ideologies everything breezes so much again, many times I'm not able to use most units or construct many atomic bombs before I unlock nuclear missiles. Ideally I would play something like +15% tech, units, buildings, but +25% tech cost, upgrade unit cost and building maintenance cost. Epic is everything +50% cost/time (of those that scale at all with gamespeed, some are not).

The files I mention don't work fully, for example I raised unit, building cost but it doesn't apply on cleared cache new game, but for some reason tech and policy cost increases did apply.

 

[hokath]

I think you probably don't want to think in terms of game speed.
The different eras of the game take more/less time because of the base balancing. Making everything 50% more doesn't change those relative durations.
So instead I would be more targeted, changing the cost curves only in the parts of the game you want to be longer/shorter. These are the files like UnitCostSweeps.sql, see the TechTier_UnitCosts helper table within for example.

Spoiler :

CREATE TEMP TABLE TechTier_UnitCosts (
TechTier INTEGER,
LandBasicCost INTEGER,
LandAdvancedCost INTEGER,
UnitFaithCost INTEGER
);

INSERT INTO TechTier_UnitCosts
VALUES
(0, 40, 45, 100), -- this is slingers
(1, 50, 55, 100),
(2, 70, 90, 150),
(3, 90, 100, 200), -- skirmishers
(4, 110, 130, 250),
(5, 135, 175, 300),
(6, 160, 200, 350),
(7, 300, 350, 400), -- tercio
(8, 325, 350, 500),
(9, 625, 900, 600),
(10, 700, 800, 700),
(11, 900, 1000, 800),
(12, 950, 1300, 900),
(13, 1300, 1800, 1000),
(14, 1500, 2000, 1200),
(15, 1800, 2250, 1400),
(16, 2600, 3000, 1600),
(17, 2600, 3000, 1600);

-- Melee, Ranged, Recon
UPDATE Units
SET Cost = (
SELECT LandBasicCost FROM TechTier_UnitCosts WHERE PrereqTech IN (
SELECT Type FROM Technologies WHERE GridX = TechTier
)
)
WHERE EXISTS (
SELECT 1 FROM TechTier_UnitCosts WHERE PrereqTech IN (
SELECT Type FROM Technologies WHERE GridX = TechTier
)
) AND CombatClass IN (
'UNITCOMBAT_MELEE',
'UNITCOMBAT_GUN',
'UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER',
'UNITCOMBAT_RECON'
) AND IsMounted = 0 AND MinorCivGift = 0;
.
.
.

If you download the Enlightenment Era mod, you can see the CostSweeps.sql file, it has most of them there (but ofc with the extra era added in).

Overall we need to work more on this era-length mouthfeel.
There is some discussion on it in the thread about adding buildings.

 

[Jeddite]

Thank you for the tip! I will try raising cost of postindustrial tech by 1000 a tier and adding another 1000 every tier, next game, along with 125% to GAP needed to trigger a golden age, since still too low tech costs and too easy golden ages tips me off.

About my findings on feasebility of creating +25% difficulty, here's what I discovered thanks to your tip:
TechCost Sweeps everybody can adjust manually in half a minute, and even buildings sweeps in same time by asking AI to increase certain columns by certain percent.
However unit sweeps is still doable with some more tinkering, BUT since those would be standard time adjustment creating this light epic speed, it would not affect 3/4 UC or monopoly mod or other buildings as far as i can tell, as they have their standard speeds set in their respective files which are usually scattered. There might be a possibility that because they are tied to a tech and buildingtechsweeps governs by tech tier they might be affected, but they might be not. Same with world wonders which is also governed by tech tier in buildingscostsweeps but i assume it might work for vanilla/VP only wonders. not necesarily for MWfVP.
Also while increasing GAP and general research points neeeded from GamePace file work right away, I didn't find a culture cost sweeps file, also there is stuff like Great Person points (didn't find a file, might be one), and spies speed (in gamepace file, untested), deal/vassal turns (in gamepace file, untested), instant yields (in gamepace file, untested) and work improvmeent speed (it is along with culture in difficulty xml but it is separate for AI and the player and tricky, some functions of it don't work). Without brining them uniformly to + let's say 25% (half the epic) that difficulty would be a betterment in many areas but gimmicky at best in others.

There technically must be some governing variable for increases in build/train cost at large, for game paces, because it is applied without being present in gamepacefile (like GAP or tech costs are) unifromly and even in modmods that doen't specify it, but whether it is working as one adjustment in one file (as those GAP/tech) or many functions dispersed in many files, maybe even split in both VP/vanilla, it is unknown to me.

 

[hokath]

Culture cost follows a formula not a table, see the EE post.
The rest, not sure, I haven't played with that. Maybe @Flamingcheesepie knows

 

[Flamingcheesepie]

For golden ages - you can increase base cost, cost of the next GA, and % cost increase per city you own in defines;
UPDATE Defines SET Value = 1000 WHERE Name = 'GOLDEN_AGE_BASE_THRESHOLD_INITIAL';
UPDATE Defines SET Value = 400 WHERE Name = 'GOLDEN_AGE_BASE_THRESHOLD_HAPPINESS';
UPDATE Defines SET Value = 2000 WHERE Name = 'GOLDEN_AGE_EACH_GA_ADDITIONAL_HAPPINESS';
UPDATE Defines SET Value = 5 WHERE Name = 'GOLDEN_AGE_THRESHOLD_CITY_MULTIPLIER';

If you want to edit all units, buildings, wonders, etc, the easiest way to do it would be to make a mod that goes at the very end of everything else (fairly simple if you can download the sdk, not too hard without it either) and set all units, buildings, etc cost to be a multiplier of itself. This would be something like the following in an sql file:

UPDATE Units SET Cost = Cost * 1.25;
UPDATE Buildings SET Cost = Cost * 1.25;

GPP is governed in defines:
UPDATE Defines SET Value = 150 WHERE Name = 'GREAT_PERSON_THRESHOLD_BASE';
UPDATE Defines SET Value = 250 WHERE Name = 'GREAT_PERSON_THRESHOLD_INCREASE';

For many of the ones you found but say are untested: I know the instant yields should work; never tried the spy or vassal parts.
For tile improvement speed specifically, you will find it easier to edit the following: currently it is at 90, I would suggest setting it to 60 or 70 if you want it to be 25% slower, but you can play with this yourself
UPDATE Units
SET WorkRate = 90
WHERE Class = 'UNITCLASS_WORKER';

 

[Jeddite]

Lol that seems so easier now, I'll probably have to read about making a simple sql mod and will make this.

Since some things like golden ages, tech, spies, are from gamepace file, I will edit those there, and for the rest I will try to do it as you helped and pointed out through the sdk.

 

[Jeddite]

Culture cost follows a formula not a table, see the EE post.

I imagine it is impossible then to do the similar "UPDATE Policy SET Cost = Cost * 1.25;"? I know difficulty file actully can increase it but I am not sure what values for human and AI would align, as they are separate there.

 

[Flamingcheesepie]

Policies work in a different way - they follow a specific formula.
UPDATE Defines SET Value = 50 WHERE Name = 'BASE_POLICY_COST';
UPDATE Defines SET Value = 2.22 WHERE Name = 'POLICY_COST_EXPONENT';
UPDATE Defines SET Value = 4 WHERE Name = 'POLICY_COST_INCREASE_TO_BE_EXPONENTED';
UPDATE Defines SET Value = .20 WHERE Name = 'POLICY_COST_EXTRA_VALUE';

This is base VP policy cost.

The equation is:
50 + (4.2*x)^(2.22), where x is the number of policies you have.
So first policy cost is 50, second policy cost is 74.19, third policy cost is 163, etc (assuming 1 city).

You can try to adjust these values, but it is much more difficult due to using exponents. The first number you may want to test is the 4 and the .2, because those are the flatest changes, but you cannot just multiple them by 25% or culture cost will increase by an insane amount.

I would suggest graphing the base equation out (in terms of culture costs), then changing a number or two and seeing where the numbers that you choose go. I have attached my method - the left column is the cost of a policy in VP, the right column is the cost of a policy using my changes.

 

[Jeddite]

PDATE Defines SET Value = 50 WHERE Name = 'BASE_POLICY_COST';
UPDATE Defines SET Value = 2.22 WHERE Name = 'POLICY_COST_EXPONENT';
UPDATE Defines SET Value = 4 WHERE Name = 'POLICY_COST_INCREASE_TO_BE_EXPONENTED';
UPDATE Defines SET Value = .20 WHERE Name = 'POLICY_COST_EXTRA_VALUE';

Wow. I wonder if I find the vlues to just scale them +50% for epic, 300% in base game files and try to replicate this, this seems to be the most delicate. I also don't know if difficulty file increase will be like just 25% in what way, e.g. if corect one, or just mimicing five cities.

I try to think what scales by game pace too, I think only growth is left.


UPDATE Defines SET Value = 150 WHERE Name = 'GREAT_PERSON_THRESHOLD_BASE';
UPDATE Defines SET Value = 250 WHERE Name = 'GREAT_PERSON_THRESHOLD_INCREASE';
- what does this mean though actually? I found them but they must be some modifiers, cause in the game it is 200 and 200, IIRC right?

What I will try first is i'm putting your suggestions into a mod by sdk, adjusting game pace file, and I will try to use growth and policy adjustment by difficulty file using those commands specified at the end of the xml:
GrowthPercent: % of normal Food required for cities to grow (100 = normal cost). Default 100.
GrowthPerEraModifier: % modifier to Food required for cities to grow for each era reached after the Ancient Era. Multiplicative with GrowthPercent. Default 0.
ResearchPercent: % of normal Science required to research Technologies (100 = normal cost). Default 0; the normal value must be specified.
ResearchPerEraModifier: % modifier to Science required to research Technologies for each era reached after the Ancient Era. Multiplicative with ResearchPercent. Default 0.
TechCatchUpMod: Boosts the existing reduction to Technology costs based on the % of civs that have already researched it. Final value is multiplicative with the above two bonuses. Default 0.
PolicyPercent: % of normal Culture required to adopt Policies (100 = normal cost). Default 0; the normal value must be specified.
PolicyPerEraModifier: % modifier to Culture required to research Policies for each era reached after the Ancient Era. Multiplicative with PolicyPercent. Default 0.

Maybe it'll work.
On the other hand, I now start to think about all the other things that might be governed by a lot other things, not easily adjusted and needed to create such difficulty like trade route time, maybe building or unit mantainance, etc. everything that I don't remember/know that it scales.

 

[Flamingcheesepie]

Cost of the first GP is 150 GPP, and it increases by 250 for each following one - this is a VP change.

CulturePercent exists in GameSpeeds, so you could just use your actual gamespeed (standard I assume) and just update it to 125% - that is likely easier.

For TR time, yields from ending are buffed (so Ottomans and Japan in the Kabuki), but it's probably not too significant - if needed you could just nerf Ottoman yields to 100.

For maintenance, generally yields/turn should balance out with cost/turn, so probably unneccessary?

 

[Jeddite]

Cost of the first GP is 150 GPP, and it increases by 250 for each following one - this is a VP change.

CulturePercent exists in GameSpeeds, so you could just use your actual gamespeed (standard I assume) and just update it to 125% - that is likely easier.

For TR time, yields from ending are buffed (so Ottomans and Japan in the Kabuki), but it's probably not too significant - if needed you could just nerf Ottoman yields to 100.

For maintenance, generally yields/turn should balance out with cost/turn, so probably unneccessary?

Oh, I must have been bamboozled by great generals admiral, they are 200, with 200 increase and i'm after a japan game so i was closely monitering them.

CulturePercent exists in GameSpeeds - I can't find in VP files sql/xml, but maybe you refer to base game and i should try increasing ti there as maybe it wasn't touched by anything in vp.

Yields i think should be buffed as all would be, I was referrring to trade route time to complete, but I found another VP file with:
UPDATE GameSpeeds SET TradeRouteSpeedMod
UPDATE Gamespeeds SET ReligiousPressureAdjacentCity
and so on, they refer to gamespeeds probably from main civ files, so I just will modify it in base game i i find.

BTW, with AI I found formula to increase policies by 25% mostly unformyl as y=63+(4.7x)2.21. I will try it if culturepercent won't work! Thanks a lot.

EDIT:
I've figured it out and applied all in threee files, it was enough and no tinkering needed, just base game multipliers from BNW, and some from VP. It is aplied to all modmods uniformly and correctly. Fully functional files. If anyone interested, i can tell what to edit in under 2 minutes to have full 25% light epic speed, I am not sure I can provide files openly as this is not legal probably (the bnw modified file), and i'm too lazy to pud that into a modmod, even if that would be like copying text some 5 times. from 3 files into one