philippe
FYI, I chase trains.
i got from desp to anarhy to monarchy and i stick with monarchy
Anybody use Republic or Communism?
- Thread starter Edara
- Start date
Evincar
Iron works is a legend!!
Yeah, corruption is terrible under communism, you say...with 300+ cities, of course it is, but it's fine when you have 100 or so cities.
MOST IMPORTANT: Try the 1.21 Patch. Courthouses, PS and WLTK day are FAR more powerful, thus, communism has a lot less corruption. I've actually had a communism with no more than 20% corruption.
MOST IMPORTANT: Try the 1.21 Patch. Courthouses, PS and WLTK day are FAR more powerful, thus, communism has a lot less corruption. I've actually had a communism with no more than 20% corruption.
What i do usually is head straight for the great library so i can relax at 0% sci. But while the great library is building i head for republic because of the tile bonuses and stuff. (im not sure if those come in monarchy as well). And you can fight wars in republic, especially if you have sci at 0% you dont have to worry about money... maybe war weariness though. Come to think of it i dont have many real wars until i reach democracy maybe the republic is to blame....
Maybe i should try monarchy sometime, ive had it before in earlier games, but only until i got the republic ... hmm...
Maybe i should try monarchy sometime, ive had it before in earlier games, but only until i got the republic ... hmm...
SirPleb, I did a similar test from a HOF submission of mine with very different results. Under Democracy I was producing 1255 tons, under Communism 1789 tons. I then DLed some other HOF games and had a try at switching government types- after preping with courthouses (my game only had courthouses- I didn't realise that police stations helped at that time). They all performed much better at democracy.
The difference? Build Density- The number of cities. While my game was close to the 80%threshold(within 9 tiles) , and I had all tiles worked, I did it with very little tile overlap, to minimize culture growth- thus a lot fewer cities. (203 in my HOF submission)
I think we will find out that if we ask around some, the people proclaiming the virtues of communism have a very low build density, and the people proclaiming the horrors of it have a high build density. It might be the larger older maps as well.
I will do some tests to find out when the breakover points are under communism.
The difference? Build Density- The number of cities. While my game was close to the 80%threshold(within 9 tiles) , and I had all tiles worked, I did it with very little tile overlap, to minimize culture growth- thus a lot fewer cities. (203 in my HOF submission)
I think we will find out that if we ask around some, the people proclaiming the virtues of communism have a very low build density, and the people proclaiming the horrors of it have a high build density. It might be the larger older maps as well.
I will do some tests to find out when the breakover points are under communism.
chiefpaco
Emperor
Mapstat has an additional feature to export your cities' production, waste, income, and corruption numbers for each city into a tab-separated format Excel can read. It is currently being reviewed and may include more stats. Refer to the Mapstat thread for download. I encourage everyone to check the utilities forum for more great handy little programs.
Mapstat: Mapstat Thread
Higher Game
National Socialist
Republic is the best government, easily. You get it very early and you never change. I can live with slightly slower workers, I can just make more. You can go ahead and suffer 6 turns of anarchy for your precious democracy. War weariness is a serious problem in democracy. In republic, you can just slide up the luxury bar and not have the same kind of problem. Having a road make 2 trade is so much better than the other governments. Communism is indeed worthless, especially by the time you get it. I think it comes too late 
Higher Game
National Socialist
I'm not going to waste my time making a courthouse and a police station in every city. I stick with republic where corruption isn't a problem anyway. Smaller than a big, huge communist country, but better. While you can make courthouses and police station, I can make other things because corruption isn't a problem for me.
Do you realize that shared corruption means your productive cities are taking the corruption from the useless border cities? Really, it is damaging to your production and economy. I think Monarchy is better than communism, and it's earlier too!
Communism just doesn't work. Not in real life and not in Civ 3. It should be replaced by fundamentalism
Do you realize that shared corruption means your productive cities are taking the corruption from the useless border cities? Really, it is damaging to your production and economy. I think Monarchy is better than communism, and it's earlier too!
Communism just doesn't work. Not in real life and not in Civ 3. It should be replaced by fundamentalism
ufftyuwe
Freedom Fighter
I do use communism and added Federation
I modified all governments so, that they are all completely individual.
I modified all governments so, that they are all completely individual.
Originally posted by Higher Game
I'm not going to waste my time making a courthouse and a police station in every city. I stick with republic where corruption isn't a problem anyway. Smaller than a big, huge communist country, but better. While you can make courthouses and police station, I can make other things because corruption isn't a problem for me.
Do you realize that shared corruption means your productive cities are taking the corruption from the useless border cities? Really, it is damaging to your production and economy. I think Monarchy is better than communism, and it's earlier too!
Communism just doesn't work. Not in real life and not in Civ 3. It should be replaced by fundamentalism
When you got factory and hover dam, it took only 3 turn to built a police station, so it is not a waste of time. Corruption is low when you got courthouse and police station, i built panzer in 2 turn, bomber 2 turn, so who care if my core city suffer a little corruption.
I can raze and destroy a.i. city without war weariness, i can declare war when i want whitout war weariness.
Far city doest get corruption like republic ( its related to number of city not distance).
If you want to rule the world( long war) at the end of industrial era, communism is the best. But if you go commi as soon as you can, then its not good because it take to much time to go throw industrial era.
Spy mission have great chance of success, much better than rep. or demo.
A well planed communism governement work perfectly.
Higher Game
National Socialist
Good job on getting hoover dam in; you can't always count on that. I never did bother with the spy missions, I will try them sometime. But I think your economy takes such a hard hit from communism I wouldn't try them out unless I was religious.
Yes i agree, economy take a hard hit, that s why i go commi. only in beginning of modern era. As a german i got rocketry free, and then i can go commi. Modern era is only usefull to built spaceshipe. Modern armor and stealth bomber are luxuries IMHO, when you got panzer and bomber. And waiting for radar artillery take too much time. But if you really want to go throw all tech it s better to stay as demo. or repub. Usally it take 6 turn for me to search a modern technology as a democraty, as a commi. it take 9-10 turn.
Higher Game
National Socialist
Don't play as Germans if you are going to go communist. The revolution really hurts bad and the benefits aren't worth it. By the time you go for the revolution, your empire is usually big enough to get the 7 turn anarchy. Ouch.
chiefpaco
Emperor
Tassadar, I provided some hard numbers earlier on a game where I built courthouses & police stations specifically for Communism. My numbers, with no Forbidden palace made, still resulted in Monarchy being on par with Communism in overall corruption. I came to the conclusion that Communism was not better for a bunch of reasons which I already outlined in this thread.
I did not have a dense build, nor was I a large empire. On the standard map, I occupied 917 tiles and owned 43 cities, which is about 21 tiles/city, exactly the most optimum spacing for every tile worked (since each city can work 21 tiles).
If you claim that you have an empire that is more efficient under Communism, I would like to see it. My best efforts fail in this regard. I am in the middle of retesting this game under 1.21, because ct & ps are stronger now.
My point is if you claim that it is better, can we see some numbers to back it up? Can you try a similar test to what I did previously in this thread? I admit my attempt is just an attempt and in no way should reflect a hard formula or fact. Perhaps a mathematical formula would suit us better.
I did not have a dense build, nor was I a large empire. On the standard map, I occupied 917 tiles and owned 43 cities, which is about 21 tiles/city, exactly the most optimum spacing for every tile worked (since each city can work 21 tiles).
If you claim that you have an empire that is more efficient under Communism, I would like to see it. My best efforts fail in this regard. I am in the middle of retesting this game under 1.21, because ct & ps are stronger now.
My point is if you claim that it is better, can we see some numbers to back it up? Can you try a similar test to what I did previously in this thread? I admit my attempt is just an attempt and in no way should reflect a hard formula or fact. Perhaps a mathematical formula would suit us better.
Ok i ll give my little hints on that.
1.- i already got a big panzer and naval force and 8-12 bomber(in 2-3carrier), so i dont need to produce anymore units while in anarchy( because we cant).
2.- My hospital is already built so my cities can grow while in anarchy.
3.- I start the war right away, so the only thing i have to manage is my strike force( no city management while in anarchy).
4.- Anarchy last about 5 turn, so its not so bad.
5.- Then i go commi, search for mass transit and built it in my big cities.
6.- Then search recycling, built it.
7.- Then search computer, built it ( all this at same time you wage war)
8.- At this point you are very strong, you got reasearch lab+mech inf. Low pollution. 1 tech away from modern armor and you still crushing a.i.
9.- Once you got modern armor, you can upgrade panzer.
10.- From your war you got surely some GL( with german its easy) to rush built anything you want, like manhantan project.
Higher Game
National Socialist
5 turns isn't so bad. I would expect that big empire to get the full 7 turns, though. I think revolutions last longer in the big empires. I haven't checked because I always play religious. When you are very powerful, you can get away with the revolution but I find them to be too penalizing. The production in one of my games was over 1000 per turn (total for all cities. Hoover dam and a lot of factories helped me here)
A 5 turn revolution would rob me of 5000 total production. I just don't think communism is worth that price. I would play Japan, they seem to suit your style more, and their golden age is timed better than the panzer.
A 5 turn revolution would rob me of 5000 total production. I just don't think communism is worth that price. I would play Japan, they seem to suit your style more, and their golden age is timed better than the panzer.
If you are a republic governement after despotism in medieval era and at peace, then german golden age is trigger with newton college( democraty work too). So a German golden age right after newton college is a very good boost in the begining of industrial era.
If you are at war ( monarchy) then sun zsu or universal suffrage will trigger it.
Higher Game
National Socialist
I don't like relying on wonders for a golden age. Newton's just isn't as good as making half a dozen knights instead. The Panzer is a great unit, though. But I would think the game is too close to the end for it to be influential. The samurai is really good, and the Japanese can get a wonder from the religious Sistene Chapel. It is built much more often than Newton's college, and is much more useful in most people's opinion.
sgrig
Comrade
I found that Communism worked quite well for large, spaced-out empires. When I'm playing on Pangaea maps (usually 256x256), I tend to space out cities quite a lot, so as a result corruption in other governments is very high even in my oldest cities, which are the nearest to the capital. In this case, I find that corruption in Communism is far less than with Monarchy. I increased the optimum number of cities to 120, and I was able to have an empire of 250 cities with only about 30% cumulutive corruption, and support a world-conquering army of about 800-1000 units.
(Since I had so many cities, even the hundreds of captured workers weren't able to improve all the surrounding terrain, so the infrastructure of my empire was pretty weak - my empire was a bit like the Soviet Union - very big, powerful, but with weak infrastructure)
However recently I've been playing on a large "continents" map, and I conquered the world while being in Republic. In this game, in the beginning I was cornered by the Greeks and Romans, so I had to build my cities very close together, so even when I conquered the whole continent, the corruption in half of the continent was really low. By having lots of luxuries, having Universal Suffrage and by conducting very short, but effective, wars I was able to avoid war weariness (In one turn I destroyed 2 full civilizations - captured 21 cities in total!) I was also able to support a large military of about 500 units.
I don't really see the point of democracy, though, because the decrease in corruption does not seem to be that drastic, but war weariness is noticeably higher.
Overall, my favourite governments are republic and communism.
(Since I had so many cities, even the hundreds of captured workers weren't able to improve all the surrounding terrain, so the infrastructure of my empire was pretty weak - my empire was a bit like the Soviet Union - very big, powerful, but with weak infrastructure)
However recently I've been playing on a large "continents" map, and I conquered the world while being in Republic. In this game, in the beginning I was cornered by the Greeks and Romans, so I had to build my cities very close together, so even when I conquered the whole continent, the corruption in half of the continent was really low. By having lots of luxuries, having Universal Suffrage and by conducting very short, but effective, wars I was able to avoid war weariness (In one turn I destroyed 2 full civilizations - captured 21 cities in total!) I was also able to support a large military of about 500 units.
I don't really see the point of democracy, though, because the decrease in corruption does not seem to be that drastic, but war weariness is noticeably higher.
Overall, my favourite governments are republic and communism.
Similar threads
