Anyone else think trade routes are a bit too good?

[GhostSalsa]

this is NOT civ V...

the trade route provides food and hammers to both cities, based upon the differences between the cities... the more similar the cities are, the less valuable the trade route is, for internal trade routes. It can actually become a trade route that provides NOTHING to both cities.

That's why my post critiqued trade routes on Beyond Earth's own terms first. Your reply still affirms the problems with trade routes on Beyond Earth's own terms. Hmm... eventually it produces nothing... as in, when a newly founded city has become established... which took half the time it would have thanks to this trivial decision... that doesn't even need to be in the game when they can just reduce early building and growth-to-next-pop costs outright. Playing an in-game version of "oh our regular price is 16 turns - but you're in luck we're having a 75% sale this (every) week!" is literally stupid. Oops, I compared it to something. Dang... grocery stores are NOT Beyond Earth..

 

[TLHeart]

That's why my post critiqued trade routes on Beyond Earth's own terms first. Your reply still affirms the problems with trade routes on Beyond Earth's own terms. Hmm... eventually it produces nothing... as in, when a newly founded city has become established... which took half the time it would have thanks to this trivial decision... that doesn't even need to be in the game when they can just reduce early building and growth-to-next-pop costs outright. Playing an in-game version of "oh our regular price is 16 turns - but you're in luck we're having a 75% sale this (every) week!" is literally stupid. Oops, I compared it to something. Dang... grocery stores are NOT Beyond Earth..

and what is wrong with being able to send production and food to your developing cities? that is how nations grow... send your production to where it is needed, NOT force your production to stay in one spot, that is dumb.

And grocery stores have sales every week, so yes it is even based upon real life. It is a different game, accept that.

Trade routes give you the ability to manage your nations growth where you need it.

Or you can choose to trade externally, for more energy and more science which benefits your entire nation.

The mirrored trade routes did need to go away, and they did.

And if you are not at peace, those trade routes are going bye bye. and based upon other choices that you can not change, ie the fence range or protect trade routes from aliens, your trade routes may not survive either.

 

[Gort]

and what is wrong with being able to send production and food to your developing cities? that is how nations grow... send your production to where it is needed, NOT force your production to stay in one spot, that is dumb.

And grocery stores have sales every week, so yes it is even based upon real life. It is a different game, accept that.

Trade routes give you the ability to manage your nations growth where you need it.

Or you can choose to trade externally, for more energy and more science which benefits your entire nation.

The mirrored trade routes did need to go away, and they did.

And if you are not at peace, those trade routes are going bye bye. and based upon other choices that you can not change, ie the fence range or protect trade routes from aliens, your trade routes may not survive either.

Why did these need to go away, in your opinion?

 

[Inhalaattori]

Why did these need to go away, in your opinion?

The question was not for me, but I give my own opinion. I think the reason is that in BE trade routes give boos for both cities so mirrored trade routes dont make that much sense.

 

[Zet]

I also feel that there are too many trade routes. Up to three per city ends up being a lot of micromanagement. And internal trade routes still seem too good because the overall yield is much higher than in international trade routes.

 

[HecatesLover]

I also feel that there are too many trade routes. Up to three per city ends up being a lot of micromanagement. And internal trade routes still seem too good because the overall yield is much higher than in international trade routes.

I am thinking 3 is a bit much even if it requires another building. Especially since if the autoplant quest is going to be anything other than automatic and obvious +1 trade route the other option is going to have to be freaking amazing. I think we should scrap the autoplant +1 trade route and make it a choice between two different bonuses to trade route yields. The autoplant already gives a trade yield bonus so it is fitting with the building's theme, it'll cut some unnecessary micro and shift trade a little bit away from OP.

 

[Inhalaattori]

Yeah we have to remember that in Civ BNW we had only about 10 trade routes at the end of the game. Now with only 10 cities we will already have 30. I believe these massive amounts of trade routes also slow the game down quite a bit.

 

[Haggbart]

I am thinking 3 is a bit much even if it requires another building. Especially since if the autoplant quest is going to be anything other than automatic and obvious +1 trade route the other option is going to have to be freaking amazing. I think we should scrap the autoplant +1 trade route and make it a choice between two different bonuses to trade route yields. The autoplant already gives a trade yield bonus so it is fitting with the building's theme, it'll cut some unnecessary micro and shift trade a little bit away from OP.

Agree. What they could to is have the quest make you choose between a bonus to internal or external routes. But in any case the base yield should probably be nerfed.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I am thinking 3 is a bit much even if it requires another building. Especially since if the autoplant quest is going to be anything other than automatic and obvious +1 trade route the other option is going to have to be freaking amazing. I think we should scrap the autoplant +1 trade route and make it a choice between two different bonuses to trade route yields. The autoplant already gives a trade yield bonus so it is fitting with the building's theme, it'll cut some unnecessary micro and shift trade a little bit away from OP.

Perhaps change Autoplant quest to
1 trade route in Capital
Or
+1 energy per Autoplant

But +2 energy external v. +1 prod internal would be interesting

Extra trade routes might be better through wonders

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Perhaps change Autoplant quest to
1 trade route in Capital
Or
+1 energy per Autoplant
[...]

That actuallys sounds like a very reasonable change!

 

[Lord Shadow]

Perhaps change Autoplant quest to
1 trade route in Capital
Or
+1 energy per Autoplant

But +2 energy external v. +1 prod internal would be interesting

I'd lean towards the second option, since the first one is still a bit of a no-brainer: a single trade route can provide 10+ energy (plus science!), and you'd need 10+ autoplants in 10+ cities to even come close to matching the bonus.

 

[Lucius_]

I am thinking 3 is a bit much even if it requires another building. Especially since if the autoplant quest is going to be anything other than automatic and obvious +1 trade route the other option is going to have to be freaking amazing. I think we should scrap the autoplant +1 trade route and make it a choice between two different bonuses to trade route yields. The autoplant already gives a trade yield bonus so it is fitting with the building's theme, it'll cut some unnecessary micro and shift trade a little bit away from OP.

This is a great idea. I suggest a choice between 50% increase trade route yield when healthy vs 10% trade route yield increase.

By adding a healthy component it balances tall vs wide.

 

[aguliondew]

Overall a internal trade route add a better yield than an external trades most of the time. A station can be a HUGE source of income with virtues making it better than most internal trade routes. Foreign trade routes are minor in comparison. Virtues that effect trade. Sea trade increases yields by 50%.

Prosperity:
+3 energy from foreign trade routes
Industry:
+6 energy per station tier
25% more from internal trade routes

What you gain example of some high yield trades with virtues:
Foreign trade:
11 energy, 8 science
Stations tier 3:
4 food, 18 energy, 6 culture
10science, 18 energy
5science 23 energy
Internal trade:
3 food, 6 production and 5food, 11 production (8food, 17 production total)

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Station yield isn't too much to worry about (since you can only have one station trade route per station)

The internal and foreign yields are though.

To help balance the wide v. tall, I'd make their yield three parts
1 Resource Differences (each helps either food/production and energy/science)..can go to 0
2 % of base yield of sending (internal) or both(foreign) cities....That way tall trade routes are boosted

 

[Acken]

What is clear to me is that they are damn cheap for the benefit and only limited by empire size. So either the yield has to be reduced, their numbers decreased or their cost increased.

And on top of it when you have 27 of them it looks like a chore to reassign them every 30turns.

This and the health system are my biggest concerns for the game right now.

 

[Zet]

And on top of it when you have 27 of them it looks like a chore to reassign them every 30turns.

We should be able to reassign them at will. And once set, they trade route should continue until reassigned by the player.

 

[Lord Shadow]

We should be able to reassign them at will. And once set, they trade route should continue until reassigned by the player.

That's just as micromanagey, given how route yields can change and new ones appear all the time. The player would have to manually and constantly check for better routes.

 

[Nick31]

From watching the latest MD game, I actually thought he was dramatically missing out on the Science boost. Whenever he checked on the AI, it seemed like the leading AI had twice his science... I would imagine that eventually that'd be unsustainable.

If each city gets 2-3 trade routes, and he'd picked a trade route to his one of his preferred Allies, then each city would get generate a massive science boost, and still have some left over for internal. 10 cities could be churning out some obscene amount of science via its foreign trade route and then use the rest on internal production and outpost growth.

On turn 163 he's got just 136 Science. I wonder if he'd orchestrated it so that at least one city had a science route if he'd have double that.

 

[GhostSalsa]

We should be able to reassign them at will. And once set, they trade route should continue until reassigned by the player.

This would complicate the diplomacy bonus for sending a TR to another civ.

 

[TLHeart]

Why did these need to go away, in your opinion?

mirrored trade routes doubled the food and production, and were unbalanced, and was a tactic the AI would not use.