Archers, Attack or Defence?

[CornPlanter]

I would place my bet on Fantasy Wars style archers. For those who didnt play it, archer units had the following abilities (if memory serves me):

1. Attack without retalation (exceptional) and up to 2 hexes away (shooting, duh).
2. Engange in "normal" (melee, that is) combat when attacked by, e.g., traditional melee unit - very poor at that, balance is balance. But before that...
3. Gets one free shot at any unit who attacks them or even a friendly unit next to them. E.g. if you have footmen with archers behind them, and footmen gets attacked, archers shoot the attackers. Nice, isnt it.
4. Retalates, when ends up at the receiving end of #1

When I first saw Civ5 screenies, they reminded me Fantasy Wars immediately

 

[Takhisis]

I like CornPlanter's idea.

 

[Camikaze]

I'm gonna take a stab and say that archers won't have a predetermined preference towards either attack or defence, but can be used to whichever you choose to use them towards, dependent on promotions (or something similar to them). This would seem to fit in with what appears to be the direction of combat; more individual control and skill involved.

 

[Tlalynet]

Cornplanters idea makes me think of Heroes of Might and Magic, man that series had some serious tactics.

I hope they bring back specialized promotions, they where fun.

 

[Takhisis]

So you could have a unit with ranged bombardment and later make it veer towards attack, defense or support?

 

[TheDS]

Arrows were the artillery of the day.

 

[Skyre Noktis]

Not even city defense bonus units and units with no terrain bonus and other things that specializes a unit for attack or defence?

I expect there will be units which get defensive bonuses (or penalties), but probably not archers, because they now have a new role. In Civ 4, there were really just weak melee units that got an artificial bonus for defending cities. It was a way around the fact that the combat system had no real way of differentiating ranged units from direct combat units ("first strike" wasn't really good enough).

In my view, "attack" is where you invade another empire and "defence" is where you try to stop your own from being invaded. So, even though mounted units don't get defensive bonuses, I'd consider them useful for both attacking and defending. Archers were the only unit class in Civ 4 that were really limited to just one of the two.

 

[Double A]

Since one of the screenshots showed archers on the front line of a defensive army, they are either good defenders or good attackers. But definitely not support.

 

[Skyre Noktis]

If they have ranged attacks (and they do) then they will be playing a support role.

 

[Tlalynet]

They could be extra expensive to train and be good all rounders, but I kind of doubt it.

 

[Tholish]

I have no idea and couldn't speculate, but I know what they should be. Take Civ 4 catapult without the wall bombardment. Substitute archer graphic. They are a collateral damage weapon that softens up enemy troops if packed too tightly and withdraws if the fighting seems like it might kill them. Of course, packing too tightly is not going to be happening in Civ 5 (maybe, who know how these rumored tile filling armies of one kind of unit will work).

 

[Tlalynet]

I almost agree, except that civ 3 catapults sucked against stacks since another 4 health unit would move to the top, while if they bombarded a single unit they could usually cut them down to one health or at least do damage. Give them the potential to damage every unit in the tile and I agree.

 

[Takhisis]

Tlalynet... there's a special feature in civ3, not implemented in the epic game, that allowed for ranged bombardment to decrease the bombarded units' defences stat. Something of a stun shot.

 

[Tlalynet]

That sounds like a good feature to play around with. I guess I never modded 3 enough, I modded 2 and 4 pleanty.

 

[Takhisis]

We discovered it a couple months ago, it's a hidden tab. You have to use an 'unlocked' version of the editor: Cracked Civ3ConquestsEdit - v1.22. It's quite legal as far as we can tell, it also unlocks teleport and some other features. Play around!

 

[Tlalynet]

Huh, too bad I never got conquests, thanks for the link though, thats an interesting read.

It was only discovered a few months ago? Wow.

 

[Takhisis]

The function's been there all the time, but it hadn't been figured out until recently. See the civ3 C&C forums for more.

 

[Chazcon]

I HAVE to get my mod finished and upload it - I have Archer Defensive Fire, they will fire off a volley at the attackers when stacked with other troops, to help in the defense. They can also bombard at range via Dale Kent's included mod.

Napoleonic era skirmishers / Light Infantry do the same thing.

 

[chongli]

Prior to the invention of gunpowder, archers (especially longbowmen) absolutely dominated all other troops from a defensive perspective. With high walls, moats, drawbridges and other fortifications to protect them, they were nigh-unassailable.

Sure, catapults and other siege engines were used but those were not always effective against extremely thick walls. Often the biggest weapon against such a difficult entrenched opponent was a lengthy siege with the goal of inflicting starvation and disease on the defenders.

In terms of offense? Their role is far more heavily weighted toward the situational/support side of things. Archers essentially dominate any battle where they cannot be outflanked or otherwise engaged in melee combat.