Archipelago game- what civ, what strategy?

[Golem of Prague]

I'm relatively new to Civilization games, still learning the tricks. I'm accustomed to playing Pangaea, usually with Babylon, lately Arabia (the doubling of luxuries by Bazaar and the Desert Folklore pantheon make them a real powerhouse, provided you've had enough luck to get a desert start and a religious city nearby). However, for variety's sake, I am thinking of playing an Archipelago game.

Question is, what civilization should I choose, and what strategy fits a naval-oriented game best?

 

[Petiscator]

There are a bunch of civs that do just fine in water maps. My personal favorites are Carthage and the Ottomans.

- Carthage = usefull for REXing along the coast + messenger of the gods = scientifical powerhouse. The quinquerremes are great for taking low-deffense cities in ancient era - be prepared to lose some, though.

- Ottomans = free ships. Nuff said. Build 2-3 trirremes and start capturing barb ships. I usually end up with a 10-ships fleet, wich I use to take down another civ. Specially usefull when playing again civs with a ship UU, like Carthage. (I once got 3 q-remes as the Ottomans this way, which ended up being REALLY helpful.

- England = they have the Ship of the Line, a really powerful frigate, which, allied with its UA, end up being a quite fast unit. I don't play enough England to give you advices, but they seem like a good civ for naval surprise attacks and for escorting units along an ocean.

- Byzantines = their only bonus on water maps is the Dromon, and this ranged ship can be really useful. Not my priority choice, but they can handle it quite well.

- The Netherlands = they shine when you get the Sea Beggars. Spam cities along islands to get luxuries, trade with other civs, buy sea beggars, conquer civs with different luxuries, repeat. Really powerful, IMHO, but people seem to call it underwhelming. I like it, though

- Polynesia = Wayfinding is great for settling in the best islands (specially those with a natural wonder) and for finding other civs for trading. The moais are ok for a cultural victory, and sometimes spaming them across the coast is quite helpful. The key here is to explore with your maoris for ancient ruins no one else can reach until the optics and beeline construction to pump out some moais.

- Denmark = they are all about water. Their UA gives a bonus for embarked units, which make them a powrful civ for surprise attacks down other player's coastlines. Their UUs are nice because one (Berserker) upgrades into the other (Norwegian Ski Infantry), so it can be quite helpful for amphibious, fast or rough terrained attacks.

- Korea = not the best for a water map, but the Turtle Ship can be great for deffense - and for taking down enemy cities, as it is 16 strenght higher than the caravel, which it replaces.

Those are the ones I can remember. The civs with ships UUs and sea-orientated UAs are the best for a water map, but I strongly recommend Carthage and the Ottomans, mostly because they are handly and partially because I love'em!

Also, I recommend following the Commerce policy tree - it is ALL about coasts, seas and some luxes. Getting the Great Lighthouse should be a nice - for me, it is essencial, but I think other players might disagree, and it is quite hard to get on watery higher leves. The Colossus should be good enough too. Prioritise the top part of the tech tree when you can and keep your triremes going, that's all I can say. Water maps are really funny, and naval warfare is one of the most interesting part of the game. Privateers rule!

 

[DesertRogues]

Polynesia is easy for getting a great jump on the AI, you can send your warrior out almost immediately to cross the oceans and find virgin land to pick the best spot for your cities. Also pick some of the religious helpers for water maps, you are sure to find religious City States first and therefore can get a religion relatively quickly.

England is not quite as fast out of the gate but their bonus in water travel is huge and 3 Ships of the Line parked outside of an enemy coastal city are devastating for conquering.

As stated above try to go Commerce policy tree and get the Colossus.

 

[Tachii]

Carthage on a water map is pretty fun.

You can easily grab at least 5+ cities pretty quickly due to free harbors. With commerce they will be pretty crazy by Renaissance. Just beeline to Navigation while producing some Galleass, then just conquer the entire map with privateers/frigates. Usually it doesn't even matter if the civ is far ahead in you in tech, since Battleships come pretty late.

You actually want them to have Frigates/Privateers so you can steal them. The AI often seem to have a tendency to try and flank you, but obviously in naval combat that's probably the stupidest thing to do, and you're likely never alone with a ship.

This strategy usually works all the way to Deity (just in Deity you need to forget about wonders and prioritize tech a lot more).

And oh yeah, you barely need to build any land units. Just get optics pretty soon and sailing ASAP to get that funky tireme UU to explore the whole map.

 

[Lakissov]

And just one note about the Great Lighthouse: if you play on a high difficulty level (e.g. Deity), then you might not be able to build it. But that's OK, just conquer the civ that has built it

AI really sucks at naval combat, so if you prepare well (build 6-8 frigates and 3 privateers), then after your attack 80% of their fleet will become yours, and the rest will be dead. And then you'll also take the Great Lighthouse, and continue to wipe out the whole map without building even one land unit ever.

 

[Golem of Prague]

I generally find that a good UB beats a good UU any day, so Q-remes and Dromons do not stirke me as giving a significant edge; certainly not Korean Turtle ships with their inability to cross deep water. (Although I WAS impressed by Q-reme's ability to one-shot Barbarian galleys once Boarding Party I is reached). England's +2 movement could tip the scales... after everything else has been factored in. On the other hand, the Ottoman ship-hijacking ability strikes me as crazy powerful in naval combat (fighting them must be like fighting a horde of zombies- every man you lose becomes one of them), and Carthage's free Harbors are great on a map when Harbors essentially replace roads.

However, I have a feeling that what REALLY counts is beating other civs to Optics and Astronomy, and therefore to early exploration. The Carthage game I've started proved to me that initial development on Archipelago is going to be sluggish, good land and resources scarce, and therefore success depends on the civ's capacity for independent early development. Maybe Babylon could give a greater edge than Carthage?

Polynesia's UA sidesteps this issue; it's a lot like starting the game with Astronomy. The problem is that they have virtually nothing else going for them. The Maori warrior makes virtually no difference, and the Moai cannot be massed on scarce island terrain. Once everyone else researches Astronomy, you're on equal footing again.

Choices, choices...

 

[GreedysMaximus]

Well it all depends on what VC you are striving for, in order to understand the right approach you need to try different strategies out. In This thread you can see some insight into domination with some really good advice from other ppl and an eventual writeup with some screenshots by me. It was the first archipelago map i ever played in G&K.

 

[Petiscator]

I don't know, while Babylon is a solid choice, I think that Carthage with messenger of the gods does almost as well as that. The free harbors are useful for both gold, production (+1 from fishing boats right of the bat ) and science (with MoT). The quinqueremes are just there to help you on the VC you want, and are useful for passing-by-bullying. Just my opinion, though

 

[chazzycat]

Archipelago is the best place to try OCC, IMO. Especially if your city borders will cover your entire island. The AI won't really mess with you at all if you stick to one city on your own landmass. So if you want to get adventurous, that would be my advice. Egypt with marble, Arabians and Koreans are the best for that strat.

In general for water maps I think Carthage is the best. Free harbors is just awesome...if you get the god of the sea pantheon, it's pretty much game over. That lets you get seaport production in the ancient age. Only challenge is founding a religion (on the higher levels).

 

[Calouste]

I generally find that a good UB beats a good UU any day, so Q-remes and Dromons do not stirke me as giving a significant edge; certainly not Korean Turtle ships with their inability to cross deep water. (Although I WAS impressed by Q-reme's ability to one-shot Barbarian galleys once Boarding Party I is reached). England's +2 movement could tip the scales... after everything else has been factored in. On the other hand, the Ottoman ship-hijacking ability strikes me as crazy powerful in naval combat (fighting them must be like fighting a horde of zombies- every man you lose becomes one of them), and Carthage's free Harbors are great on a map when Harbors essentially replace roads.

However, I have a feeling that what REALLY counts is beating other civs to Optics and Astronomy, and therefore to early exploration. The Carthage game I've started proved to me that initial development on Archipelago is going to be sluggish, good land and resources scarce, and therefore success depends on the civ's capacity for independent early development. Maybe Babylon could give a greater edge than Carthage?

Polynesia's UA sidesteps this issue; it's a lot like starting the game with Astronomy. The problem is that they have virtually nothing else going for them. The Maori warrior makes virtually no difference, and the Moai cannot be massed on scarce island terrain. Once everyone else researches Astronomy, you're on equal footing again.

Choices, choices...

You don't have to beat the other civs to Astronomy. If you get the free Admiral from Naval Tradition, you have a 6 move explorer that can cross oceans. That's why France also has it uses on a Archipelago map. Their UUs are useless, but the extra culture helps you get Naval Tradition and Merchant Navy earlier.

 

[budweiser]

RE: England. Make sure you have iron or you aren't getting any SOL. If you dont have any iron in your borders, use your Longbows to conquer some. The first half of the game is about securing iron, the second half is about using it.

 

[frigatewhisper]

Free harbors for Carthage is over. Now what.

 

[Pook]

Free harbors for Carthage is over. Now what.

Hmmm...I played as Carthage last week, and the free harbors were still there.

 

[Jimjemael]

Thinking about it Theodora might be a good choice seeing as how you can combine religious texts (extra religion power) and itinerant preachers (extra religion range) together allowing your faith to spread across the seas.

This approach with maybe ceremonial burial (happiness per city converted) would ensure you have no problem settling and also that your religion was the only one to cross the oceans and convert all those precious city states.

The Dromon just helps you out even more

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Free harbors for Carthage is over. Now what.

care to explain? was it patched? ive never heard of their free harbors being "over".

 

[Crafty Bison]

I wouldn't reccomend byzantium for water worlds, cause it's more difficult for religion to spread, and missionaries/GP are relitively more significant, making byzantium lose religious ground on ethiopia or the maya (or even celts). The dromon is very powerful, but too early to base your whole game on.

Which civ is best is partly to do with the type of map:
Polynesia are awesome for tiny islands cos everyone else suffers heavily in the start + good shapes for moai
Beastly warring navies like england or ottomans are good on a small continents kind of map, cos they need some early space to grow and meet civs/CS's before the armies get going, and they both have great land UU's too. That, and england need iron.
Korea are for playing the same way you would ona land map and not suffering for it Suppose the exact map type doesn't matter.
Denmark are great not when there's lots of water but when there's lots of coast - something like a fractal map.
If you don't want to go domination (but still want some war) then netherlands and carthage are great choices - Something like large islands might be good for these ones - Netherlands likes wet maps, and you need enough land for a wide variety of lux's. Carthage expands early - 2/3 cities on your continent before setting of to pastures new with the embarkment tech.
Is that everone? Just remember to take the left side of the commerce SP and crush whoever built the great lighthouse

 

[MisterSaturnine]

Korea is not to be underestimated on an archipelago, and I think could actually be one of the strongest contenders.

1. Turtle ships might only be limited to coast, but on an archipelago you can sometimes find your way around the world by hugging the coast. They truly are early ironclads. They're matchless in their era and remain relevant even after other ships have come to "obsolete" it - they're significantly stronger than privateers! If a Civ is less than an ocean away from you, they're toast.

2. The nature of the map gives them plenty of time to set up the foundations of their empire, and propel them towards the technologies that will give them an edge over other Civs.

Korea has the power to be much more than a turtle in G&K, even excluding the broken H'wacha (I don't build catapults when I play as them right now so I don't run into the problem). Even with AI at the helm, Sejong has teeth in this expansion. He's a real shark.

 

[mintcandy]

Striving for Domination victories with the Ottoman Empire is fun.

Step 1: Turn on Raging Barbarians
Step 2: Build a fleet of about five combatant ships.
Step 3: Find a barbarian camp surrounded by water.
Step 4: PROFIT...okay, start stealing barbarian ships from said surrounded camp.
Step 5: Use your stolen ships to bombard everyone else into submission, making sure to protect your most seasoned crews.

As I understand it, there now exist ships that can take enemy cities...if so, the Ottoman Empire may not even NEED to build any land units to get a Domination Victory on an Archipelago map.

 

[Poopin Thelift]

Step 5: Use your stolen ships to bombard everyone else into submission, making sure to protect your most seasoned crews.

That doesn't work anymore, as the barbs will only give you melee ships for quite a long time. Your melee fleet is not able to take out any unit on land, and even if you manage to take over a city with your triremes there is a big risk that it will be reconquered by the enemy's land units. If you are lucky there is Theodora around to help you out with some dromons...

 

[Sidor1982]

I'm relatively new to Civilization games, still learning the tricks. I'm accustomed to playing Pangaea, usually with Babylon, lately Arabia (the doubling of luxuries by Bazaar and the Desert Folklore pantheon make them a real powerhouse, provided you've had enough luck to get a desert start and a religious city nearby). However, for variety's sake, I am thinking of playing an Archipelago game.

Question is, what civilization should I choose, and what strategy fits a naval-oriented game best?

Civilization - pick Your choice.
Deity strategy (works all the time with all civs, this is the short version):
Rush Biology, get oil, Rush Electronics, get battleships, get some priveteers/destroyers + 3-4 submarines for protection/detection. Anihililate everyone. As long as You don't get too far behind tech wise You''l get a victory (by too far I mean more then 20 techs behind). Alternative version is to get frigates, get additional range bonus as an upgrade and later upgrade them to battleships.