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Archive: Land Office

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game III: RPG' started by Stuck_as_a_Mac, Apr 27, 2003.

  1. Stuck_as_a_Mac

    Stuck_as_a_Mac Aptenodytes forsteri

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    Welcome to the Land Office. This is our main branch. There isnt exactly much to do right now, seeing as we lack map making. Once we get that, its Beaurocracy galore!

    I am pleased to announce the development of a generator for events in relavance to loos and gain of tile (My sincere thanks go to CT for her help). Before each TC, I or one of my deputies will run the generator. Depending on what comes up, ALL tiles will be effected by that for the first turn of the TC. It could be something good, like +5 shields, or bad, like -3 food. I will post it in an index post.
     
  2. Stuck_as_a_Mac

    Stuck_as_a_Mac Aptenodytes forsteri

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    Land Rules

    1. Might makes right. The despot starts out with everything and everybody else grovels at his feet.

    2. As territory grows it gets beyond the ability of one character to control. New nobles are raised to run these territories. They are sworn to allegiance but rebellions have been known to happen. The despot can actually give away land but this generally only happens as a reward to a long time loyal follower. More often the lesser nobles are running the despot’s land in service to him.

    3. It’s possible for there to be more than one despot. If a revolt succeeds and is not put down by the despot that territory is then a separate entity. Note that newly acquired territory in the demogame still goes to the despot who holds the demogame capital.

    4. In a monarchy new land goes to the most logical king. That is the royal character that has adjoining lands, nearby capital, etc.

    5. In republic and democracy new land is offered for general sale to the populace.

    6. In communism all land reverts to control of the government.

    7. Land provides a number of gold, shields and food that it would generate if worked in a city. If no city controlled by the tile owner can access the tile it never makes more than what is shown when right clicking on the tile in the game. Gold can be converted to food or shields with one gold making 1/2 of either. If currency hasn’t been discovered yet all gold produced must be taken as shields or food.

    8. Cities produce the number of gold, shields and food for the tile they reside on plus an additional gold for each population point.

    9. A single contiguous land territory that has at least 5 * P (where “P” is the number of provinces in the demogame) will receive an additional gold per tile in the territory. If the territory has 10 * P receives 2 gold per tile in the territory and one that has 15 * P receives 3 gold per tile in the territory.

    10. The Land Manager has overall authority over land issues and is responsible for keeping track of ownership, territories and the base g/f/s values of the tiles.
     
  3. Mariner II

    Mariner II Chieftain

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    how do i become "royal"?
     
  4. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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    you can start a character who is of "noble" birth at the onset of the RPG (starts this week) at first it will be difficult to get a royal as the despot runs everything. As more land is availible the despot will promote those of the "upper gentry" to royals to manage the land. Once monarchy, republic and democracy hit, that will be much different.
     
  5. Sir John

    Sir John The evil one...

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    When you start a character, cant you make it a noble, even as we are in despostism? or do I have to start on upper gentry..
     
  6. Stuck_as_a_Mac

    Stuck_as_a_Mac Aptenodytes forsteri

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    We are all currently commoners groveling at the Despots feet. Its up to him (really it, seeing as its an NPC ran by the Game Manager) to make us bigger and better.
    And Sir John: we lack the tech for soccer. Id wait for a combination of masonry/mysticisim and a dose of Bronze working before starting up a soccer team
     
  7. Padma

    Padma the Absent Admin Administrator Supporter

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    As Nobility Manager, IMO no player character should start the game as higher than Gentry All nobility is at the whim of the Despot, so, as Saam said, we are all commoners groveling at the Despot's feet.

    Note: I have not verified this with the Character Manager, so it is currently just my opinion, only.
     
  8. disorganizer

    disorganizer Deity

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    also mine... even tougher: all should start as COMMON!
    even the despot. he can set the rank for all citizens. including himself.
    and we should not allow private appointment of characters into the upper castes. like "i now adopt character b1 of myself and as such he is higher born". caste membership should be only for direct personal descendants, not for adopted children.

    but we should hold this discussion in your office, padma, not here :) so please for the caste asignment discussion go to the nobility thread.
     
  9. Stuck_as_a_Mac

    Stuck_as_a_Mac Aptenodytes forsteri

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    This is where the shield/food/commerce changes for T1 of a TC will be posted.

    Like the rest of this office, dormant until mapmaking.
     
  10. Ehecatl Atzin

    Ehecatl Atzin Lore Master

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    Just a couple of sugestions, oh wise Land Manager :)

    -In a monarchy, it could be more fun to have multiple Lords and a king, like middle age Europe, lot's of little towns with their own Lord and a King in the Capital, or maybe two Kings, you know, divide the nation in two and see what happens, after all, the concept of nation didn't arrive until the 18th & 19th century.

    -In republics and democracy, it would also be nice to have a land rush not unlike those that ocurred in the States after the west was won, that way, those that can't buy lands can have a taste of land ownership.

    EA
     
  11. Shaitan

    Shaitan der Besucher

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    @SAAM - We can't wait until mapmaking to have territories. The despot should already be managing/assigning territory for use so units can be raised.
     
  12. Stuck_as_a_Mac

    Stuck_as_a_Mac Aptenodytes forsteri

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    Hey! Mr. Despot! Yea, Im talking to you (Plex?). Im here waiting...
     
  13. disorganizer

    disorganizer Deity

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    Shaitan: The despot will be using the first few land tiles we have on his own propably... he needs units, he needs wealth :)
    As we get more land, the despot will propably give land to his humblest followers to govern it (propably other cities than the capitol, far out provinces etc.). this way ownership will spread with the time.

    Ehecatl: the land rush in america was only there because nobody owned the land. the reason was that america skipped all the land-ownerhip methodogy of the ancient and middle aged aeras.
    in europe, there was no land rush because the land was divided between the nobles before. as the nobles had to pay more and more for maintaining their land, units and buildings, they were forced to first lent the land away and later sell the land. otherwise we would not have any land ownerships in europe :)
    the land was also often the price people got for loyal followership over generations. with monarchy as tech, the nobles will struggle between each other for land. the monarch himself needs not hold the most land.


    but with writing this something else arizes:
    the despot should not be dependent on land-ownership for unit building or other expenses!
    we should have a defined amount of shields / gold / food per land tile in the nation going to the state for maintenance of national troops, which will be under the controll of the leader.
    the resources could also be used for other purposes, privately or nationally, like building palaces, monuments, paying assasins...

    this way the leader can freely give away land without fearing to be without troops or other ownings.

    also:
    cities in the middle ages and the ancient times were NOT owned by anybody. people built there and used the resources in a small scale. the ownership of a city is mainly defined by its surroundings or stationed troops inside the city.

    as such, the national troops of the leader could be stationed in citites to maintain peace. in any non-staioned city any citizen can call out a revolution and draft troops out of the resources of the city. the leader could moove any unit through any territory within the nation at will without explicit allowance.
    and of course he can attack units of his citizens at any time (for example to fight down a revolution or fight another noble who is not loyal enough)
     
  14. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

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    What are the rules on pre-mapmaking land ownership?
     
  15. Octavian X

    Octavian X is not a pipe.

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    Stuck, I'd recommend something to you that I'm doing in the conflict office. Place a limit on the land a person can effectively control.

    Take a look at Atrous' stats, and set a limit for the tiles he can control before he has to appoint loyal administrators to look after the land, and allow those admins to use the land as they wish.
     
  16. Shaitan

    Shaitan der Besucher

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    Yes, that was the intention from the basic rules as written. Just the particulars need to be set.
     
  17. disorganizer

    disorganizer Deity

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    i suppose that we could introduce a kind of "land corruption" which will cripple land output if no local administration is applied. this could vary with the governments.

    for example during despotism, the corruption reduction should be 25% for each tile distance to the loctaion of the local administration.
    for monarchy, this could be set to 20%, for republic to 15% and for democraty to 5%.

    example:
    if the despot has his "home" in the capitol, the capitol tile will have 0% reduction of its output. all tiles around the capitol will have a 25% reduced output. all tiles around them 50%, all tiles around them 75% and all tiles more than 4 tiles away would have no output at all.

    if he wants to prevent this he can set up a "local administration" in another city. the same rules would apply to that city. the local "administrator" (or maybe grand visir) would be able to completely use the tiles as he wishes, but the despot, who would be the owner of those tiles legally, could demand a %-age of the tile output as tax, for example.
    the "local administrator" could raise troops and therefor later on attack the despot if he wishes to gain ownership of the lands he administrates.
     
  18. Stuck_as_a_Mac

    Stuck_as_a_Mac Aptenodytes forsteri

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    Hmm// good idea. Atrous can control Noshuret, but who will control Gornia (Did I spell that correctly?)
    I know it has been decreed that Helena will control the city, so I suppose it goes to Dis...
    But that means Helena can set up as the despot for there and we will have 2 despots...

    Ill read Dis's post above this and think .
     
  19. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    If I'm not mistaken, Atrous declared that Prince Diutius would rule Gorina. I saw nothing in his statement about Helena.
     
  20. Stuck_as_a_Mac

    Stuck_as_a_Mac Aptenodytes forsteri

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    My apologies, Prince Diutius. I just assumed it would go to his daughter.
    As for Dis's idea:
    Corruption is a good idea. Its just that your factors may be a little high. If there is an admin in every town, thats good.
    I like it.

    Just remember: We all have until Map Making, technically, to draft up a final land set. Ill be working on it later this week
     

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