Archmages

[Caradoc]

What are some good promotion sequences for Archmages?

Let me clarify. What sequence of promotions works best as a unit progresses from Adept to Archmage? Do you start with Combat? When do you take spells? And what other promotions (e.g. March) do you take along the way?

Take into account that the unit will normally need to serve as Adept and Mage before becoming an Archmage. It seems to me that some Combat levels will be needed early on just to be able to get the additional experience needed to continue to progress. Everyone seems to love those Meteors, but they don't get you any experience, so how soon do you get them? And what about spells that benefit you in other ways (e.g. Vitality)?

Finally, consider that all three Archmages do not need to have the same promotions. I find it useful to have one parked in my Capital with Law III and other buffs, one ready with offensive spells, and another with Domination and various adventure spells. So there may be three different sequences. (For this exercise, let's not get into Liches or Flesh Golems.)

 

[oyzar]

Get fire 3 twincast loads of combat promos and some spell extension and watch everything within 5 titles die to swarms of meteors. You can upgrade grigori adventurers to archmages eventually giving you all the promotions you would ever want.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=256478

 

[Grey Fox]

Death III is nice cause then you can make 3 Liches and then make 3 new archmages, for a total of 8 possible with some civs (Hemah, Hero).

Other than that, Fire III + Extension II + Combat V for maximum damage/range Meteors. Air III is a nice attack spell that damages a large area (3x3 tiles I believe), Air II got Whirlwind, an awesome spell that pushes all enemy units away. The Earth III spell Crush is pretty strong.

For a city booster, Mind II for Inspiration (+4 Research), Law III for Unyielding Order (No unhappiness or Maintenance), optionally spirit II for Hope (+4 culture and +1 Happy), but that is easier done with mages where needed.
Spirit III can be nice if you need better diplomatic standing (+4 with all Leaders)
Nature III is great for Vitalize

 

[Tobbe_1]

I normally aim for two meteor archmages and one "buff" archmage (either cityspells or stackbuffs like bless). Concerning the promotion order, i never thought much about it, i normally piked fire I - extension I - Str I - Mobility (i just like them to be mobile...)->Mage - fire II - extension II - Str for the rest of his life.

But as fire I is pretty useless, it really seems be a better idea to go for str-promos earlier (like you said) probably str 1 - str 2 - mobility - fire 1-> mage - fire 2 - extension 1 -extension 2 -archmage -fire III

 

[Grey Fox]

Fire I isn't useless if you got jungle nearby.

And if you get three fire manas quickly, you'll get adepts that start with fire II.

 

[nealhunt]

As far as a sequence, I think it's pretty much:

Adept: Sphere A I, Sphere B I, Combat I/Sphere C I
Mage: Sphere A II, Sphere B II
Archmage:Sphere A III, Sphere B III

If you want a third sphere at level 3, take it as an Adept then build it after you reach the other spheres at 3 as an Archmage.

The times I would deviate from that would be if you had extra free promotions or extra mana that provided automatic levels of something. In general, I'd stick with combat promos unless you want to take Mobility for a mage that can run around with your cav or disciple units with mobility (spiritual leaders).

It sort of just depends on what you like. As long as you keep a combo of spheres so that at least one of them has a nice spell at each level, that should be good.

==

If you're headed for maxing out Archmages, Death is practically a requirement for the first few. If you fill your Archmage slots without being able to become Liches, you block your Liche slots. Plus, Death gives useful offensive abilities at level I and II as well.

A Death/Fire combo is nice attack mage all the way up from Adept.
Adept: Death I, Fire I, Combat I for damage/skeleton buff (or pick up a third sphere)
Mage: Death II, Fire II
Archmage: Death III (go Liche), Fire III

Death/Earth works the same way. Earth isn't all that great on the way up, but Death provides that. I love the Level III earth spell.

Another nice combo, imho, even though it lacks a big Level III power spell, is Death/Nature. Death provides offense at lower levels while Nature is support (Treetop Defense and Poison Blade). Then at Archmage you pick up Liche and Life III and go terraforming. A third sphere can provide one of the big, heavy hitter spells lacking from this combo once the others are in place.

Many times I want a water mage early on to spring all the deserts. A Death/Water combo isn't bad. Low level offense and utility. Mid level offense and a mediocre self-buff ability. High level move to a Liche slot and a great coastal attack. By the time you have a Water Liche and a Nature Liche you will have terraformed your civ into virtual paradise, but it's not so great if you're worried about hell terrain.

==

Below Archmage considerations, I like to use Divination, then go with support and city buff mages.

Adept: Mind I - Good for defense and for stopping counterattacks against your stacks geared for offense.
Spirit I - Nice for the healing boost in general. Essential if you're sending a stack against Hyborem or Acheron.
Fill in with another promo of your choice. Earth is good for a city buff mage as you're going to be sitting in the city anyway.
Mage:
Mind II - inspiration
Spirit II - hope (choose first if fighting cultural border war - otherwise Mind II)

Past that, just pick a sphere that will be useful on defense because your mage will be parked in a city.


For an anti-Armageddon adept, water and life allow you to combat Blight and repel hell terrain. I frequently have a "bucket brigade" of adepts doing that. Of course, lots of adepts eventually means lots of mages and these are less than stellar spells. Either pick a third sphere for them to use as a Mage, or plan on making them Summoners.

One combo I like from that start is water/life/chaos - it's just mediocre support at Mage level, but at Archmage, you can Razor the damage, then Regenerate the living units. Alternating just those two spells will keep an entire stack of troops on the move at full speed during a war.

 

[reverend oats]

Mobility is a must, especialy if you're using horses.

 

[oyzar]

I find that mobility scouts and archmages is a good combo as the archmages basically kill everything ever without any backup and the scouts goes ahead and take the cities.

 

[onedreamer]

Body is my favourite sphere (unless playing not-alive based civs). The role of Mages for me is primarily of support. The damage is nicely done by other units. Of course it is also welcome from mages, but I prefer direct damage, like Tsunami, Maelstrom, Crush, etc, which don't care of city defenses, than Fireball damage.
The buffs of Body mana are devasting, and having one Body Archmage for stack can easily change the tides of a war, more so than having attack mages, since the buff regards all units in the stack which are alive.
Mind and Air are also among my favorite spheres. Combat increases spell damage, so you should get it for Air/Fire/Water/Earth mages, but it isn't much needed for buff mages, although it is of course always handy and I do always give at least a couple to every mage.

 

[oyzar]

The body mage isn't going to help your stack against a hellswarm of meteors though.

 

[Roghar]

yes he will, have a few medium stacks with adepts to haste them along. You have to break the traditional big stack mentality when fighting heaps of collateral damage.

 

[onedreamer]

The body mage isn't going to help your stack against a hellswarm of meteors though.

It's called Stoneskin + Regeneration + Haste. A stack with one Body Archmage is esponentially stronger than a stack with Fire Archmage, and is going to cut through the latter stack like a knife in the butter.

 

[oyzar]

Well calling it a stack with a fire archmage is rather faulty since it is in fact just 3 fire archmages with a random assortment of other units. Those units almost never see combat.. It just send out 18 meteors every turn. Stoneskin isn't going to save you against that..

 

[onedreamer]

fine, if you put on the field 3 Fire Archmages, I'll put on the field 3 stacks each with one 1 Body Archmage, just in case... but chances are that I will have the initiative...

 

[Caradoc]

So back to the original question: how do you go about developing these fabulous fire mages? You don't get EPs throwing Fireballs, so where do you get enough EPs for six levels? Even if you start with Fire 2, you still need the 25 EPs to become an Archmage.

 

[onedreamer]

1) play Arcane leaders
2a) attack strong units with the fireball and finish them with the Mage (you can now cast a spell and attack in the same turn. Bad, bad thing).
2b) (especially in case the broken stuff above is somehow fixed/balanced) have a summoner damage the units through summons, or just sacrifice low level units to do the job.
3) build Adepts ASAP and make them kill Goblins, while they are still around, but don't promote the Adepts past Combat II. When you have the right techs promote and upgrade them.

 

[nealhunt]

In keeping with Onedreamers' #2, siege weapons work as well for wearing down the enemy and letting lower str mages pick up xp finishing them off.

In the end, any civ can end up with archmages by simply building plenty of adepts early and sitting on them.

 

[oyzar]

It's called Stoneskin + Regeneration + Haste. A stack with one Body Archmage is esponentially stronger than a stack with Fire Archmage, and is going to cut through the latter stack like a knife in the butter.

While regeneration and haste surly is nice stoneskin is only going to go on the archmage himself which makes it rather useless...

 

[reverend oats]

Stoneskin now only effects the caster, so it is nearly useless, iirc.

 

[brainpan]

Give em fire and give em death. No other spheres come close to the power of fire and death. Mobility can sometimes be delayed in single player games, but is vital in MP.