Are Huns and Mongols Related?

[Plotinus]

Did Constantine actually name the city Constantinople or did he name it Nova Roma? I've seen conflicting things.

So have I. Some accounts claim that he named it "Nova Roma" and it was renamed "Constantinople" after his death; others say that "Nova Roma" was a description, intended to signify the city's importance, and its name was "Constantinople" from the start. At any rate its coins bore the word CONS from 326 onwards, so it was clearly known by that name from an early stage, whatever its official name.

It's also worth noting that in Constantine's lifetime, Constantinople wasn't really the "capital" of the empire. The notion of a "capital" is somewhat anachronistic anyway, but Constantine didn't give his new city all of the same institutions that Rome had. He seems to have thought of it more as a dynastic city, i.e. the city of himself and his heirs, rather than as an administrative centre. It really became the capital of the eastern empire in 357, when it was given a senate, under Constantius II.

 

[Alejanrdo]

That's 100% non-responsive and 95% incomprehensible.

The ability not to read, understand, process thought? I thought we had an age limit. History has a direct way of repeating itself and always will through humanities inability to learn it.

Upon any summary here isn't it obvious? He changed the state name, regardless, his son wipes out certain lineage, his mom was the holy virgin or another saint, was he infact an imposter? Also he was the first St emperor?

Few decades later boom goes Rome when the capitol did infact get moved.

His dad the first supposed emperor, self ordained to accept Christainity the product of revolt, which only branched revolt, and later the destruction of the empire. 1 + 1 = these records undoubtedly.

Anybody can quote Wiki's write Wiki's Mario, please grab a text book if you want study time.

Although History is often accepting the dates haven't added up outside of a marker intent on proving, establishing, setting their own purposes.

 

[sophie]

Although History is often accepting the dates haven't added up outside of a marker intent on proving, establishing, setting their own purposes.

You haven't used a single date this entire time, so please, show me, using specifics, how the dates don't add up. There's no need to use BC or AD, just: how many years ago did Alexander die? How many years ago was Rome sacked (whichever sack you are referring to)? Point to some specific references which verify these dates.

 

[Alejanrdo]

You haven't used a single date this entire time, so please, show me, using specifics, how the dates don't add up. There's no need to use BC or AD, just: how many years ago did Alexander die? How many years ago was Rome sacked (whichever sack you are referring to)? Point to some specific references which verify these dates.

That is right, which is exactly what I have been trying to establish. I don't accept BC, before Ceaser, AD, the fall of rome? Although my assessment is obviously incorrect, pardon the apparent sarcasm, tending to be innately lost on some, sometimes.

Any point of using that numbering was to try and prove christainity, adding in one imposter or some other, upon using that archiac dating system. Why should I just go and generate some other random numbers in here? That anybody else can find on Wiki. We really should be moving past there fiction? We have already establiished a lot of mythology inbetween those numbers. Until those dates provide us with substantial proof, they have often only served to verify their myths. We should be logically using another modern dating sytem, something like metric vs imperial.

 

[MilesGregarius]

What a train wreck.

 

[sydhe]

In 402 CE the Visigoths attacked Milan, and the western capital moved to Ravenna.

In 410 CE the Huns sacked Rome.

So the capital was moved a number of times, and none of them had anything to do with the Huns.

It's also very anachronistic to refer to "Turkey" in this context. This is like saying that the Iroquois were living in the United States at the time of Columbus.



No, they haven't - unless you can give us some of this "proof".

Obviously you mean the Visigoths sacked Rome. Huns never did get to do it.

 

[Ajidica]

What a train wreck.

All I know is that I have a great idea for novel. A Roman Legion is captured by time travelers and are then trained to be expert mounted warriors. Their time traveling overlords task them with intervening in history throughout the ages to 'correct' historical anomalies and when necessary provide cover for the actual time travelers to enact large changes to the timeline that otherwise would be stopped by a time traveling zombie Jesus, who has his own army of temporally displaced Macedonians.


@Plotinus: I know that the Gibbonesque narrative of Christianity causing the collapse of the Roman empire through pacifism and a lack of material desire is rubbish; but what sort of changes did Christianity bring to Bob the Roman Soldier in how he viewed the world?

 

[Plotinus]

Obviously you mean the Visigoths sacked Rome. Huns never did get to do it.

Of course. I must have been temporarily befuddled by Constantinian propaganda, or something.

@Plotinus: I know that the Gibbonesque narrative of Christianity causing the collapse of the Roman empire through pacifism and a lack of material desire is rubbish; but what sort of changes did Christianity bring to Bob the Roman Soldier in how he viewed the world?

That is an interesting question and I have no idea what the answer is. I suspect that we don't know what the answer is because Roman soldiers tended not to write down their views. I also suspect that it probably didn't make much difference. As I said before, the Christianisation of the emperors made no difference whatsoever to their general behaviour in military matters (or most other matters), and I would guess that the same thing probably applied to soldiers. We know from Tertullians De Corona that in the pre-Constantinian era there were tensions between Christian soldiers and pagan ones, with Christian ones refusing to participate in some activities with religious overtones, but that wouldn't have applied in the fourth century. I would guess that the same kind of people would tend to join the army whether they were Christian or not. But that is just a guess.

 

[Alejanrdo]

Somebody else tries sarcasm and reads dweeb instead, oh well maybe latin is truly a lost art..

The christain Visgoths because they had all like converted to Rome before they had sacked Rome. However the Huns were like vampires, no not quite that Vlad yet, but the godless barbarian horde of cannibals, because we wouldn't want them infecting those Christains.

Of course Christanity caused the fall of Rome any proof is abundauntly clear, even a child can answer that today. Christainity doesn't have any actual origin except history being worded around a randomly generated date. We don't even know when Christ was born, or that he actually died? Christmas a pagan celebration from a pagan event held on that day. Any given answer is obviously clear about just what is common fact within this timeline. Clearly history doesn't read before Ceaser, because Ceaser was infact quite before BC. Meanwhile Rome lost it's empire long after AD. All we have is history written into a timeline that doesn't even actually exist. Most facts are being disputed about much of those early Dark Ages that had lead to the collapse of Rome, combinded with the basic inability to keep any of those actual records concerning that founding timeline. All that everybody else in these communities continually does is read, word, and report directly into random dates that have already been proven to be false, where the construction of this timeline is as equally as imposturous. Begging the obvious question of just what is common fact, any summary being not really all that much concerning this basic timeline from within those early Dark Ages. No sadly it is not a conspiracy at all, but simple undisputed fact, when much of this history was simply refounded into fiction, and so just what was to be established by this conundrum? All the proof is right there by reading into these absurd dates.

Obviously St Constantine was quite the imposter..

All the legions had scribes who reported, recorded everything, from rations, etc, we have some records in Brittania, the product of structure. Just like the Greeks had many historians who lost much of their historical works in the fall of the Great Library, this also held much of the Empires before, upon being situated within a former empire.

The tribal horselords founding their own empires didn't care about how they crossed Europe and Asia sacking empires, creating empires, sadly they weren't given half as much attention as anything else fiction here

 

[Yeekim]

Where do these crackpots come from?
And more importantly, why are you people attempting to "debate" them?

 

[Alejanrdo]

Clearly as forum rules are breached everywhere, my guess would be from Estonia, why don't you go and pray now, with your sheesh, or whatever else caused a lack of appropriate thought

 

[Plotinus]

Moderator Action: Please keep the discussion civil. I'll give infractions for any further flaming.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Alejanrdo]

To establish common proven point, please look to any modern cirriculums. Why any history taught is often a further subject outside of common taught geography, where it often establishes national, or current histories, outside of what is past considered today as fanfiction. Although we are still quite governed by these archiac dates, within their thinking if it as ain't broken, just go don't fixing it yet, and so some of these myths remain.

What is the first thing taught about most history and structured into social studied geography. Again proving valid point.

A childs lesson into why some keep on whistling Pixie and others believe in their Claus. Agreed these dates may have justified certain means by setting the records that they thought to be straight, we can only learn other languages to see just what has been taught.

 

[Hygro]

That is right, which is exactly what I have been trying to establish. I don't accept BC, before Ceaser, AD, the fall of rome? Although my assessment is obviously incorrect, pardon the apparent sarcasm, tending to be innately lost on some, sometimes.

Any point of using that numbering was to try and prove christainity, adding in one imposter or some other, upon using that archiac dating system. Why should I just go and generate some other random numbers in here? That anybody else can find on Wiki. We really should be moving past there fiction? We have already establiished a lot of mythology inbetween those numbers. Until those dates provide us with substantial proof, they have often only served to verify their myths. We should be logically using another modern dating sytem, something like metric vs imperial.

Owen: "How many years ago?"
Alejanrdro: "We should use a different dating method than the one you didn't ask me to use"

 

[r16]

Where do these crackpots come from?
... "debate" them?

oh , please mind the plural ...

well , phrases like Conan the Hun does not exactly help . Have never been much of an anything but to assume they are "fixed to assist as a digital Rosetta Stone in case the thread gets linked elsewhere" is a theory ı have already espoused ; otherwise as it may be well known that Howard created the Red Sonja specifically as an anti-Turkish story arc , in Vienna of 1683 or something . It seems there is also a "Conan at the Crusades" , named Hawk or something . Neither it can be much of a truth to create a background for even idiots of my caliber with the tales of the Lost Legion . Which was the 9th or something , specifically for a modern day tale . Didn't Hollywood already destroy it in England ? Uncle Sam is dumb , real dumb , no way that it can follow that the First Rome was got through proxies , the Second Rome was handled personally , who are Russians to claim the Third Rome and the New Rome will be swamped by utter firepower . Besides if there was any single grain of belief in that , it would never be said . Not here , not on the web , not in your life ... Not even am falling for that one , right ? Unless of course if this is the work of Christian Fundamentalism itself , you know the entire thing about Devil ...

no appearance from Domen as well ? ı was cleaning up my hard disc and by chance saw a thread from last year . With a poll on whether the Ancient Greeks were almost equals of Europeans on the eve of breakthrough of the Industrial Revolution . ı would have to say ı have a rather low opinion of Alexander and his empire and would doubt they had that much of science ...

but obviously using machine translation or something really cuts down the number of the participants , now that people can not understand a single thing . How about a post in "mothertongue" so that the entire range of discussion can be read and translated by what CFC members prefer to use ? Otherwise it would be really a trending topic with moderators "charged" that the proof is right in front of their eyes : Now that ı don't think there is any picture of a particular Starfleet Admiral around these parts , inspecting a Roman Legion ...

if there is a belief that this is something , consider what's going on at home ! This is the anniversary of the landings of 1974 and we have the heroics of Turkish submariners in Milliyet , a daily always believed to be catering to the closet Jews ... A map shows ( although the graphic artists would never believe it ) that the two Turkish subs were indeed given boxes to remain inside , to stay North of Baf . You know , to deconflict with USN guaranteeing to pass intel about the Greeks if they sent reinforcements . And it was like a Superpowers together thing too , considering there is Victor on the East side of the island , a nuclear sub of the type the Russian apparently call a "Kefal" while the American contribution is a Tang . As far as ı can judge from the profile ; and the Turkish subs are indeed Guppies ... Then a whole load of BS on how the subs were tasked with stopping the English , Americans and finally Greeks . On the Eastern box , a British SSN hunted a Guppy , took an active sonar ping and ran ; the interwieved thought he was really dead already . On the West , a British destroyer sat on that Guppy for hours , now that it was down South already and supposedly a Russian Destroyer arrived to kick the Limey out , though do not expect a revelation that the Russians had the firing solution for their ASW mortars or something already . When will be the discussion on what the Brits really did ? And besides it was very likely that ı would never see it ; the shop-owner refused to sell the single copy of the newspaper to me ... ı went elsewhere and due to an error of the cashier ı got it .25 liras cheaper . Alexander , as the siege of Tyr shows , would have filled the sea and saved all the trouble with our allies ... And we would be spared the agony of tales of how the guys were braver back in the day . Syria is right there , who's keeping you ?

 

[Alejanrdo]

Owen: "How many years ago?"
Alejanrdro: "We should use a different dating method than the one you didn't ask me to use"

If the timeline doesn't exist, maybe it should have worked into any evolutionary timeline? Heck is the 20 hundreds the 21 century for? It is all wrong. No we shouldn't have to add in anymore atomic seconds, but maybe just maybe we shouldn't be using AD fairies and BC Santa Claus. Was all I was saying, but I don't know? It ain't broken because nobody has thought to fix it just yet. This system has been working for a couple millenia before any evolution even existed. Other timelines were infact used before western influences and the UN.

Hey Conan the Hun was as good a barbarian as any other, he wasn't buried neither.

 

[Hygro]

If the timeline doesn't exist, maybe it should have worked into any evolutionary timeline? Heck is the 20 hundreds the 21 century for? It is all wrong. No we shouldn't have to add in anymore atomic seconds, but maybe just maybe we shouldn't be using AD fairies and BC Santa Claus. Was all I was saying, but I don't know? It ain't broken because nobody has thought to fix it just yet. This system has been working for a couple millenia before any evolution even existed. Other timelines were infact used before any until western influences and the UN.

Hey Conan the Hun was as good a barbarian as any other, he wasn't buried neither.

But do you agree that Owen wasn't asking for a date, he was asking for how many years ago?

And do you agree that your response was to talk about why you don't want to give a date?

 

[Alejanrdo]

But do you agree that Owen wasn't asking for a date, he was asking for how many years ago?

And do you agree that your response was to talk about why you don't want to give a date?

The timeline doesn't exist. There are way to many inadequacies and fanfiction that have been added into the early periods of it's starting and ending dates. Accept that and all we have been doing is feeding the fables. Until this timeline proves just how relevent AD and BC are, because they aren't to Ceaser and Rome. I am taking the barbarian stance and sacking the lot, I don't care how it has crossed Europe and Asia, I come from another century today. Anybody else can WIKI the myths, generating those early numbers.

How many years ago that would be like somekind of a millenium bug that didn't set the time back to any evolution.

If you want dates check the news lastnight? An interesting discovery found now, where, how, dated when, doesn't quite match the earlier timeline. Unless the absolute source. Dubious because of the place of it's happenstance. Look what has gone and found having just dated, have we got more in the warehouse. Like most fanfiction from any shroud to the grail. We could pratically grow the stuff today. I couldn't careless at all though, but the world needs to move on already.

 

[r16]

ah , them maybe ı should keep lamenting oh how pathetic ı am , with my last post above . Where ı end up supporting a narrative instead of kinda lambasting . You see , ı read Timsup4nothing's posts in CFC and grasp that when that British SSN trailed the Guppy and took a ping it would immediately change position . Only because it seems any submarine would have at least one anti-sub torpedo always ready to fire and had it been war the Guppy would have fired back immediately . Now that this is not something you learn in primary school , it seems it came out as Russians chasing Brits again . Which then "proves" it's a good thing to "work" with Foreigners since they can protect from other foreigners ! Which then means we should be like pawns and jump in ... This is exactly what happens the context is not there , simply leads to an assumption that there is this lament that the 00 bug remained restricted to a Jennifer Lopez music video and missiles didn't fly in error . Why , one can always set the clocks back , if this is what it takes ...

 

[Alejanrdo]

I didn't understand a word of that R16. The jest was once upon a time there was 3 wisemen and they all made pact of which religion to name, creating a bug where people actually took them seriously. Now we should set the clocks back to prevent the cycles caused in their name, as some people still believe in fables. The reality was they were just kings dividng up their spoils.

However R!6 As far as disarmament is concerned I am all for the space race instead, but possibly keeping UN weapons for JLO and that big booty butt, nuclear.