are Timurids next Civ?

steveg700 said:
Why not? Think along the same lines as Greece and Macedon.

Back in the Civ V days, I proposed an idea for this over at the Ideas forum. Went something like this: the Timurids have a Tower of Skulls meter on their UI. Killing units and pillaging tiles adds skulls to the tower. When you attack a city, you get a bonus equal to the numbers of skulls. Once a city is captured, the tower is reset to the amount of population killed in the conquest.

Always wanted something like that in Civ. Some ability that provided a unique tactical resource that could be accrued and expended only by that civ.
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Why not indeed? I certainly wouldn't mind, it would just surprise me if they were included in this expansion!
 
steveg700 said:
And, not to be ignored should be his promotion of architecture. I could see a mausoleum as a unique building for the Timurids.

Of course, this would be one of those civ's that's really just about the rein of a single notable leader.
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Not necessarily! There were other strong Timurid rulers beyond Timur himself- Shahrukh and Husayn Bayqara, for instance. Most of the celebrated cultural achievements came late in the Timurid period, with Herat in the later 15th century being critical for the formation of the Persianate styles which would dominate Islamic culture for centuries.
 
Vahnstad said:
Uzbek, Mughals, Bukhara, Tibet?
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Uzbeks and Bukhara are essentially one and the same, and characterising the Mughals and Tibet as Central Asian is perhaps a little controversial (especially since the Mughals are essentially just the Timurids ruling in India :p). Uzbeks would be an excellent choice, however.

There are still plenty of Central/Inner Asian civs around, though; the Gokturks, Bactria, Khwarazm, Kushans, Hephthalites, Samanids, Karakhanids, Kara Khitai... I mean there's some crossover with some of those, but you are quite right that there are plenty to choose from.
 
Merciorum said:
The Timurids weren't really Mongols, though. Sure, they were of Mongol ancestry and legitimised themselves along Chinggisid lines, but they spoke Chagatai Turkish and were very much emeshed in a Perso-Islamic cultural world. The later Timurids actively disdained Mongols (including Babur, if I remember rightly.)
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Disdain for Mongols proper was universal, steppe nomads have historically been seen as the "scum of the earth" by all sedentary civilizations. I recall a Byzantine poem with some obscene language in it where it somehow managed to invoke a Scythian woman's ugh... private parts.

Timur's own claim to the Mongol legacy was just to legitimize his conquests since during his time you had to be a Khan to have ruling legitimacy. That in turn was connected to the Mongol legacy because only Genghis Khan's descendants could become Khans of the Mongol successor states. Otherwise, I don't think Timur was very psyched about being/becoming Mongol.


steveg700 said:
Why not? Think along the same lines as Greece and Macedon.
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The problem is that a big reason for Macedon's inclusion was the massive shift gameplay-wise from the culture-oriented "Greece-proper" civ towards a nonstop warring machine. The Timurids are not radically different from Mongols-proper that they would have to be included to do them justice.

As for Central Asian civs, I'd prefer Afghanistan with an ability along the lines of "good luck declaring war against us". Or just go with some general Asian steppe focus and include the Manchu.
 
Basileus Rhomaion said:
The problem is that a big reason for Macedon's inclusion was the massive shift gameplay-wise from the culture-oriented "Greece-proper" civ towards a nonstop warring machine. The Timurids are not radically different from Mongols-proper that they would have to be included to do them justice.
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Hmm. Fair point.
 
Bactrian Empire, Mughals, Khwarezm or Kush (Kushan Empire) could be considered as well, if adding another Central Asian Civ. Timurids wouldn' be the Civ name I'd use to call the nation though, is there a more formal name of that once mighty empire? The main reason to include them in Civ 6 or at least Civ 7 (if it ever comes out) would be because of the great (warmonger) leader: Timur (also known as Tamerlane). I miss the Huns from Civ 5 mainly because of Atilla and am of opinion that all the greatest/most famous leaders of history, no matter if known mostly by their ruthless conquests or by their wise and cultured reign, should be included in Civ series at least once and Timur clearly fits this category. Also, only leaders who have been gone/dead for a century or more should qualify to lead their tribes/civs on the game (to try and not offend anyone in their countries-if possible)
 
Merciorum said:
Not necessarily! There were other strong Timurid rulers beyond Timur himself- Shahrukh and Husayn Bayqara, for instance. Most of the celebrated cultural achievements came late in the Timurid period, with Herat in the later 15th century being critical for the formation of the Persianate styles which would dominate Islamic culture for centuries.
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The most famous beyond Timur was arguably Ulugh Beg who ruled from Bukhara and Samarqand over a pretty massive empire. Ulugh Beg was an accomplished mathematician, probably the greatest 'astronomer' alive during his reign and promoted culture and scientific development. He ruled over a massive component of the Silk Road during the early 15th century which - while not at its peak - was still a major source of international trade at the time. I've always wanted the Timurids in and always thought Ulugh Beg would make an incredible leader in the game, given his scientific, cultural and economic attributes...
 
Timurids? Yikes, no thanks. Give me Palmyra led by Zenobia or Gran Colombia led by Simon Bolivar or the Haudonsaunee led by Jigonhsasee instead, anytime.
 
I would love to if they included them , btw timurids beat and captured ottomans leader and killed him , but had to stop invasion due to revolts. SO really nice civ to add , BUT they territory overlaps with a lot of civs currently released , so would be tight spot to fit , plus it seems ottomans arent major civ for Civ6 to focus on....so as sad as it is..for Civ 7 maybe ?!
 
I haven't heard ANY talks about a scenario in R&F... Could this possibly be a scenario worthy civ though ? I'm with most, I don't see this happening as a legitimate civ, but in a scenario, I wouldn't be too surprised !
 
Ever Adrift said:
The most famous beyond Timur was arguably Ulugh Beg who ruled from Bukhara and Samarqand over a pretty massive empire. Ulugh Beg was an accomplished mathematician, probably the greatest 'astronomer' alive during his reign and promoted culture and scientific development. He ruled over a massive component of the Silk Road during the early 15th century which - while not at its peak - was still a major source of international trade at the time. I've always wanted the Timurids in and always thought Ulugh Beg would make an incredible leader in the game, given his scientific, cultural and economic attributes...
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He was indeed a great patron and scholar, but I was given to understand he was a rather mediocre ruler; decent enough as governor but pretty swiftly lost his lands upon Shahrukh's death.
 
I like the ideas of the Timmies, but it's never going to happen in the same Xpac as Genghis Khan and Mongolia.
 
I'd like to see the Timurids, really any form of Muslim Persia would be neat. For some reason the Timurids stick out to me among those options, so yeah, maybe not likely but I think it'd be cool. We can hope, I guess. Or learn to mod, but that sounds like a difficult task that would have a jarringly lower quality leader model.
 
Reavici said:
according to sources, Timmy used catapultes to besieg Tbilisi
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The use of catapults in sieges was something many civilizations have done.
 
AnonymousSpeed said:
For some reason the Timurids stick out to me among those options
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Well, the Timurid culture they developed was the most important factor in the cultural history of the Middle East for centuries; they were enormously influential, so it'd be good to see them.

Still, I think the Safavids are perhaps the most obvious choice for an Islamic Iran. But yeah, anything representing Islamic Iran would be good (or even anything representing eastern Islam, or any Islamic power beyond Arabia. Seriously, there is really not enough representation for the Islamic world in 6).
 
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