Are wood chops to strong?

[elitetroops]

And that is exactly why chops are so strong. There is a reason why people make such a big deal out of having one extra food or production or such at the very start; that matters more than thirty a hundred turns later. Just calculate it out. How much faster do you get your Worker / Builder, how much faster do you have better terrain, how much faster do you get your Granary, et cetera.

And especially on higher levels, how many more good city spots can you secure with faster settlers.

 

[qadams]

And that is exactly why chops are so strong. There is a reason why people make such a big deal out of having one extra food or production or such at the very start; that matters more than thirty a hundred turns later. Just calculate it out. How much faster do you get your Worker / Builder, how much faster do you have better terrain, how much faster do you get your Granary, et cetera.

Yeah, I know, but... I really enjoy walking through old growth forest.

 

[need my speed]

Yeah, I know, but... I really enjoy walking through old growth forest.

I enjoy nature as well. I always appreciate the green I see as I go to and sit in public transportation. And I even often play Civilization IV without chopping any resourceless forest (though, I vastly improved the Lumbermill)!

EDIT: Look, better emoticons!

 

[Louis XXIV]

And that is exactly why chops are so strong. There is a reason why people make such a big deal out of having one extra food or production or such at the very start; that matters more than thirty a hundred turns later. Just calculate it out. How much faster do you get your Worker / Builder, how much faster do you have better terrain, how much faster do you get your Granary, et cetera.

I think the question of "how much faster do you get you builder" shows what's problematic about this strategy. Since you have to burn a charge to chop the forest, it's essentially building a Builder with one fewer charge (who is more expensive because they go up with each one).

 

[Big J Money]

If someone wants to pay attention, they can use a "chop strategy" and count all the chops and all the builders they made during the game. The cost delta from last to second last builder (more, if more than 3 chops were used) can be used to determine exactly what the late game opportunity cost is. I'm willing to bet it's negligible. Especially like others have said, X resources in the early game are worth more than X in the late game. Depending on the value inflation curve, it could be Firaxis didn't increase the cost of subsequent builders enough, for all we know. Although I guess this is an inflation over amount of territory rather than number of turns, since it's really territory that causes one to build more or fewer builders. So this is a less costly venture for smaller empires.

 

[MadDjinn]

you also have to remember not to chop if the forests will be your main source of production. Ie, a lack of hills/resources to mine.

So there is some balance in there even 'early game' where you have to decide between a source of production and quick chopping, but yes, chopping forests will be a factor in fast expand or grabbing a wonder/etc faster. Just don't over do it else you've got nothing left.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

You do get the ability to plant forest but that is rather late in the game.

In some cases forest are just in the way, farms want to be next to each other and districts want to be next to each other so you may want to chop random forest that hinder you from placing farms and districts.

If you have hills you can do without forests, farms are much more productive in civilization VI so it should not be to hard to support your miners.

More or less all wonders give benefits that outweight their cost and most early game wonders only take something like 3 chops to finish. Trading a worker and 3 woods for a wonder is in most cases a good idea especially if the woods are not needed or are in the way. If you are China or know that you can finish a wonder without chopping you should probably save the woods.

 

[qadams]

In some cases forests are just in the way, farms want to be next to each other, and districts want to be next to each other, so you may want to chop random forests that hinder you from placing farms and districts.

Does anyone know if you get the hammer bonus from building a district on a tile with an unchopped forest? What I mean is, do you need to use a builder to chop that forest first, so you don't sacrifice the gain? Or will you get it automatically?

 

[Siptah]

Does anyone know if you get the hammer bonus from building a district on a tile with an unchopped forest? What I mean is, do you need to use a builder to chop that forest first, so you don't sacrifice the gain? Or will you get it automatically?

You have to chop first. Otherwise the forest is uselessly destroyed.

 

[qadams]

You have to chop first. Otherwise the forest is uselessly destroyed.

Oh, okay, that's good to know. Thanks for the reply. That will add another level of decision-making. I like it.

 

[Siptah]

Yes, you might want to have a builder ready at almost all the time. For repairing, chopping wood etc.

 

[elitetroops]

To those who want to leave forests unchopped for national parks, you don't need them for those:

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

National parks are pretty expensive, cost like 1600 faith to create one.

 

[qadams]

To those who want to leave forests unchopped for national parks, you don't need them for those.

You don't need them -- but I'm pretty sure old-growth forests add appeal to tiles, which helps to increase the overall tourism value of the National Park.

 

[Siptah]

You don't need them -- but I'm pretty sure old-growth forests add appeal to tiles, which helps to increase the overall tourism value of the National Park.

Yes, old growth adds +1 appeal to the tile.

 

[Big J Money]

If you have hills you can do without forests

Are you sure? I thought in Civ VI, the forest and hill each add +1 hammer to base terrain, so you'd still be losing that +1 (of course you would anyway if you planned to put a mine there).

Which now makes me wonder... is chop a separate action? i.e. If I use a builder to mine a forest hill, do I get the chop bonus? And if so, does it take 2 builder actions: 1 to chop, then 1 to build the mine?

Side note: A little weird that naturalists are only purchasable with faith?

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I think they are separate actions

A little weird that naturalists are only purchasable with faith?

It make faith pretty valuable for civs going for culture victory.

 

[qadams]

A little weird that naturalists are only purchasable with faith?

Yes, it is weird. There really is not much crossover between conservation, environmental activism, and religion. Some, maybe, but not a whole lot.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I think it's more gameplay choice to use faith for Naturalist, so late game is shifted from pure religion combat a bit. Also, it has some philosophical meaning as environmentalism could be one of the modern forms of religion.

 

[qadams]

I know what you mean about gameplay, and I suppose it's a way for the devs to make 'faith' mean something in a late-game secular era... but then perhaps there might be a better label for that mechanic than Faith.