Armageddon counter & effects

[Roghar]

I like the blighted farms idea, keeps the penalty without the micromanagement. I'm all for reducing unskilled micromanagement

Then all we need is the ability to automate adepts casting Spring and Sanctify!

 

[Saroumana]

I support this idea .A big advantage for everyone : same effect with way less micromanagement.

 

[Alzara]

OK Im still playing my first game of FfH and I thought I'd give some "fresh/nooby" perspective

You guys are right that the AC counter is easy to raise. I kinda tried early on and have made a huge evil society of Ashen Vale nutcases However even when I'm not trying, the counter tends to zoom up with the occaisional drop. I have converted two people evil and brought them into the undercouncil too, so the spread of my religion probably has effected the counter a lot.

Still, it does seem easy to increase. On a positive note I do like the horrible events (although I haven't really thought about their order yet). Hellfire should probably occur earlier and more than once (demons arrive all the time onto the mortal plane in fantasy worlds and have to be fought off).

Also, I think the idea of a "range" for events is good. It would keep you on your toes and prevent the prediction of blight events etc.

Al

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

No it's not broken. In fact, whatever made the counter shoot up to 40 would make it shoot up even more, if blight did not slow the aggressor down.

The real reason why high AC count and AV go together is because of sacrifice the weak. You can continue running large cities even with hellfire, and if you summoned Hyboream, gift him cities, make sure he gets all the units that spawn, and take your friend from hell to conquer everyone.

But don't wait too long: hell terrain does not spread to good civs, so take them out before they out-tech you. For that reason, I personally prefer to contain the counter if I play AV, so hell terrain does not spread, and I can enjoy a ridiculous specialist economy with SoW. Of course this thread is not about AV strategy.

I do worry about Glory Everlasting actually. If it does hit, you're really screwed, as your power graph would drop and you'll get dogpiled with the -12 relations that you already have with the good civs. What worse though is the Elohim racial hero - all your hard work cranking up the counter suddenly gets halved.

 

[Falaris]

I would not mind an option to halve AC increase in the game setup bit, if possible.

The blighted farm suggestion seems good, by the way.

 

[Aradiel]

From my expirience in about a dozen different games i cannot control the ac counter unless i bash ashen veil civs back to stoneage. Sanctify doesnt seem to have any effect, and also the ai does nothing against ashen veil when it spreads although they follow order. So my idea is why dont we add an event for good civs that removes veil from one or more citys of the empire, like there are already events that spread religion. Especially civs that follow the order should have frequent events to counter ashen veil by pursuing the followers. This could have the following effects:

Increasing numbers of veil cultists are gathering in the city of...
What are your orders ?


1. Try to convince them to abandon this blasphemy peacefully.
leads to:
+The Cultists are enlightened by your priests and abandon the demonish cult.
+ Our attempts did not have any effect, the cult remains but order is mainained.
+The Cultists refuse to abandon their religion but leave our town for good.
-1 pop in the city cult removed +1 unhappiness
+The cultists initiate a revolt and cause chaos and destruction in our city!
-2 pop in the city. cult removed +2 unhappiness

2. A progrom force the ashen veil followers to convert or leave.
+The Cultists where forced to leave our city. -1 relations to all ashen veil civs. 100% cult removed
+Dozens of Cultists are slain in the street, the city is in disorder, ( a random building gets destroyed 50%) -2 relations to all ashen veil civs.
-1 pop in the city 50 % cult removed
+ Our attempts did not have any effect, the cult remains but the citizens are unhappy. -1 pop +2 unhappiness
+The cultists fight and cause chaos and destruction in our city!
-2 pop in the city. cult removed 33% +2 unhappiness ( a random building gets destroyed 100%)-2 relations to all ashen veil civs.

3. The city guard shall arrest everyone who is suspicious and sentence them to death through the cleansing flame.-1 to 2 pop in the city 100% cult removed, increases the chance of removing the cult on the nex time -3 relations to all ashen veil civs. +3 unhappiness -1 relations to all (good civs) (you treat your ppl bad)


Depending on the outcome of your intervention theres an x% chance that:
The cast out spawn as a refuge for another civ that follows the veil, like the souls of dead spawn for hyborem.

 

[Fenboy]

Good call Aradiel, IIRC there's already an event which has Order and AV fanatics fighting each other, but it doesn't strike nearly often enough to make a difference, and it is kind of odd that civs like an Order-worshipping Bannor would tolerate any AV presence in thier lands whatsoever if they could possibly help it, even without formal Inquisitors.

 

[Ecofarm]

On quickspeed, when burning your 4th or 5th city gives 8+ AC, and around city 6-8, it costs 12+, blight is too harsh. As is 80s and 100. You are forced to keep all cities and run city states for conquest (or be AV?). Perhaps I should test, but it's ~10 cities and AC = 100 on quick. Is it always this way?

 

[Vigilance]

How exactly does one counter blight?

All I see is a huge spike in unhealthiness. All my farms are still intact.

I had cities of 20 population down to 10 before I gave up.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The function of Blight was changed several versions ago to give unhealthiness instead of messing with improvements, resources, and terrains. It uses the BtS spy's poison water mission code, so the unhealthiness counts down in time, and damages living units.

def doArmageddonBlight(argsList):
	kTriggeredData = argsList[0]
	iPlayer = argsList[1]
#	iPlayer = kTriggeredData.ePlayer
	pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
	if pPlayer.getCivilizationType() != gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_INFERNAL'):
		for pyCity in PyPlayer(iPlayer).getCityList() :
			pCity = pyCity.GetCy()
			i = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(15, "Blight")
			i += pCity.getPopulation()
			i -= pCity.totalGoodBuildingHealth()
			pCity.changeEspionageHealthCounter(i)
	py = PyPlayer(iPlayer)
	for pUnit in py.getUnitList():
		if pUnit.isAlive():
			pUnit.doDamageNoCaster(25, 100, gc.getInfoTypeForString('DAMAGE_DEATH'), false)

As you can see, having smaller cities with more health-granting buildings just before it hits would help lessen the impact. Afterward, you'll just have to try to get more health/food and to wait it out.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

If you ever wanted to change religion or civics, when the blight hits is the perfect time. Since you don't have to feed your people during the revolution, you can avoid several turns of starvation. Kind of appropriate too, I think that a huge and ominous event like the blight would inspire revolution.

 

[Vigilance]

If you ever wanted to change religion or civics, when the blight hits is the perfect time. Since you don't have to feed your people during the revolution, you can avoid several turns of starvation. Kind of appropriate too, I think that a huge and ominous event like the blight would inspire revolution.

Yeah, well, given that the blight hit and on the next turn a Civ that I was more or less equal with declared war on me, what it prompted was me turning off the game.

 

[Assassin]

Some tweak to AC is really needed.

Like i was war with Illians and AC was 4. After i razed 3 Illians city AC was 14. WTH is that? Then i used Sanctify to ruins and AC went down by 2 with all three cities.

Nice... I play with Order in my religion and i raise up AC just because i try to destroy evil players and their cities? Maybe not very realistic situation.

Well... some may say that capture them, but i won't 'cause those cities are opposite side of map and would kill my economy.

So maybe less points to AC if you raze evil players cities, or make sanctify more powerfull. I don't feel very good civ with Order my religion, if i raze evil player cities and get AC to grow fast.

 

[Demus]

the AC is designed to be a riser, and tough to bring down. Player alignment has little to do with the way the AC behaves upon raising. Raising AV cities does bring the AC down though, since in that case not just the leader, but the entire city has gone evil.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

Nice... I play with Order in my religion and i raise up AC just because i try to destroy evil players and their cities? Maybe not very realistic situation.

Well... some may say that capture them, but i won't 'cause those cities are opposite side of map and would kill my economy.

Razing cities is the easiest way for a non-AV civ to raise the counter. If you don't want to raise the counter, don't raze non-AV cities. If you're worried about the maintenance cost, take over the enemy civ quickly and then grant independence to the captured cities.

 

[BillSeurer]

...then grant independence to the captured cities.

How do you do that?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It only really works if they are on a seperate continent. I've tried to remove these restrictions for establishing colonies a couple times, but my attempts only removed the ability altogether.

 

[Sarisin]

the AC is designed to be a riser, and tough to bring down. Player alignment has little to do with the way the AC behaves upon raising. Raising AV cities does bring the AC down though, since in that case not just the leader, but the entire city has gone evil.

That's it in a nutshell. The game/mod is designed with reaching Armageddon in mind. I haven't played many games where the AC didn't rise towards 100 and in most it hits 100.

You do have a bit of control on how fast it rises, but not that much as the AI civs have something to do with it too.

As stated, razing large cities will get that counter increasing quickly. Sanctifying doesn't help much when a large city is razed. However, I have found that taking an Adept/Mage with Life I around the map with an escort and Sanctifying all the ruins laying around can bring down the counter a bit.

I think when you play this game you just have to go into it with the thought Armageddon is coming. You can prepare for some of the nasty events on the way (like the Horsemen), however, I think with Blight you just have to wait it out. It truly slows you down if you have just a few large cities as I usually do. Wars and World Spells can also hit you hard while you are experiencing Blight.

 

[civ_king]

Worldbreak is OMG PWNage at 100AC it can get very fun

 

[BillSeurer]

It only really works if they are on a seperate continent. I've tried to remove these restrictions for establishing colonies a couple times, but my attempts only removed the ability altogether.

Ah, OK. It's like in the base game then.