Armed Transport?/Escort

[EvilConqueror]

Huh. I've seen them mass Destroyers and the occasional Cruiser, but I've never seen BBs from them. Maybe I should play more Archipelagos?

The AI upgrades its old ironclads to destroyers. And since combustion is always discovered before mass production, they are able to build additional destroyers before battleships are available. So, they may have a ton of destroyers initially.

But in my experience, the AI prefers battleships to destroyers because of the higher defense and bombard values. The sight of multiple battleships escorting transports and bombarding my coast is common on my higher level games.

Perhaps you're just winning your games before the AI has a chance to build them.

 

[del62]

I've seen an actual AI Carrier task force with 2 Carriers, 1 Battleship, and several destroyers. What a shame I had several subs near by to *ahem* "take care of" their nice investments.

They normally use that to drop off a warroir and horesman in the modern age.

 

[Ataxerxes]

They normally use that to drop off a warroir and horesman in the modern age.

So true.

 

[vorlon_mi]

The AI loves to use battleships as transport escorts. They have the best defense value of any ship.

I like them for the extended shore bombardment range. I can stand off-shore and bombard a coastal city, vs moving next to it and then moving back. AI bombers could hit me, but the AI is usually busy bombarding my ground troops to worry about my BB. Also, there's usually a period where I have battleships and my target doesn't have flight yet...

 

[WhiteRabbit]

I like them for the extended shore bombardment range. I can stand off-shore and bombard a coastal city, vs moving next to it and then moving back. AI bombers could hit me, but the AI is usually busy bombarding my ground troops to worry about my BB. Also, there's usually a period where I have battleships and my target doesn't have flight yet...

As in WW2 reality, I do find that battleships are highly vulnerable to air attack. One or two bombers can redline a battleship very easily.

Indeed, that's how I defend my home coasts - a couple of bombers on standby to redline any enemy battleship that shows up then my submarines take out the redlined battleship. Works like a charm as long as one has lots of cheap subs lining one's coasts (as I always do).

As for coastal or city bombardment, as was mentioned above, the battleship is pretty damn weak (and very expensive) for that. Bombers and/or artillery pack more bombard punch and cost less.

That's why I use battleships only for defensive escort purposes on the high seas. They perform that role better than any other unit in the game.

 

[Raliuven]

Indeed, that's how I defend my home coasts - a couple of bombers on standby to redline any enemy battleship that shows up then my submarines take out the redlined battleship. Works like a charm as long as one has lots of cheap subs lining one's coasts (as I always do).

That's pretty tricky. I like it!

I hadn't ever considered bombers for coastal defense. Unlike artillery, you can even follow them out to sea for a short distance to get/enable the kill.

 

[Aabraxan]

Throw in some fighters for recon.

 

[bigFRANK]

Yep unless you have a lot of coast bombers work a treat at beating off an invading force, mind by that time you should be railroaded and able to get your tanks/infantry/arty stack there in double quick time too to make some MGL's.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Throw in some fighters for recon.

That requires too much work.

I use a 'picket line' of submarines sitting off my coast. They just sit there on "y" command. They give warning of anything approaching.

I keep second supply of subs in my coastal cities that sorte out for attacks.

Yep unless you have a lot of coast bombers work a treat at beating off an invading force, mind by that time you should be railroaded and able to get your tanks/infantry/arty stack there in double quick time too to make some MGL's.

The wonderful thing about bombers in Civ3 is that they are REALLY MOBILE.

It makes it really easy to cover the whole continent with just a handful of bombers on standby. As soon as trouble is spotted, a half-dozen bombers can be re-located to the nearest coastal city in one turn. I mentioned using only two bombers because that's all one usually needs to redline a veteran battleship.

 

[Raliuven]

Hmmm. Making an entire picket line of subs seems like too much work and expenses - maybe on a smaller map? But I suppose you could picket the likely sea lanes as the AI is rather predictable.

I'm going to have to give this a go and see what works for me. Thanks for the ideas!

 

[Elephantium]

There is one problem with picket subs. Neutral AIs will run over them with their convoys and start wars.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Hmmm. Making an entire picket line of subs seems like too much work and expenses - maybe on a smaller map? But I suppose you could picket the likely sea lanes as the AI is rather predictable.

I'm going to have to give this a go and see what works for me. Thanks for the ideas!

Well, one only needs 4 or 5 subs to make a picket line for each coastline since the subs are spaced quite a ways apart, so I don't see this as expensive. And yes, it is fairly easy to concentrate sub-pickets in likely AI approach zones.

Overall, I usually have about a dozen subs sitting out as pickets and another half-dozen subs sitting in harbors waiting to sorte out to kill invasion ships (standard or large map). 18-20 subs and 2-3 bombers doesn't seem excessive for coastal defense, given the annoyance factor from all those hit'n'run raids, pillaging or the shelling of one's improvements from the AI. Nothing ever lands on my coasts.

There is one problem with picket subs. Neutral AIs will run over them with their convoys and start wars.

I've heard about this, but have never seen it. Seems odd since I ALWAYS use this technique for defending my coasts - I set up the sub pickets as soon as subs are available and I leave them there throughout the rest of the game - never had any issue of anyone declaring war over them.

Maybe it was a bug that has since been fixed?

 

[Bartleby]

Cruise missiles are pretty useless, build a carrier instead and put some bombers on it.

The few times I've used Cruise Missiles in my games they've been very effective.

 

[GamezRule]

Yes, but they are expensive and can only be used once.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

I've heard about this, but have never seen it. Seems odd since I ALWAYS use this technique for defending my coasts - I set up the sub pickets as soon as subs are available and I leave them there throughout the rest of the game - never had any issue of anyone declaring war over them.

Maybe it was a bug that has since been fixed?

It's a bug that was fixed in Vanilla/PtW, but somehow got reintroduced and never fixed in Conquests/Complete.

 

[GamezRule]

I swear we are having duplicate conversations here.

 

[bigFRANK]

There is one problem with picket subs. Neutral AIs will run over them with their convoys and start wars.

Convoys tend to have destroyers in them which can see the sub thus avoiding said problem, of course if your opponent is still running about in wooden boats and bumps your picket sub (whilst in your territorial waters) then a war with them is probably no bad thing as your all most certain to be able to win and you wont loose rep as they started the war.

 

[bigFRANK]

The few times I've used Cruise Missiles in my games they've been very effective.

I used the half a dozen I built to test this theory out but wouldn’t build more the lack of range the single use and fact they have to be land launched makes them much less effective than they should be. If modding the game I would maybe make AGIES Cruisers able to carry 3 or 4 of them (and sea launch) that would give both units more of a purpose.

 

[Raliuven]

18-20 subs and 2-3 bombers doesn't seem excessive for coastal defense,

I don't know - 18-20 subs does seem like a lot to me. I haven't tried it so I'm not knocking it. On a large map I might see it. On a huge map certainly. It just sounds like a lot of units sitting around waiting to guard the coast (and I do like to guard my coast).

As I have PTW, I don't have the sub-war problem either.

 

[MysteryX]

Using subs for defense, I can see why you'd want to have a lot. They are the slowest naval unit, so if you want to have a sub to be within one-turn striking range of any square on your coast, you just simply need more.

However, you don't need to defend every bit of coastline. It seems to me the naval bombard/harass attacks, the AI chooses the nearest target to one of its harbors. I don't think the AI likes long journeys across the ocean, or traveling in anything other than a straight line, when it sends out the navy to bombard and attack other naval units. I can usually guess where the trouble is likely to come and what parts of my coastline are unlikely to see any action, and station my forces accordingly.

The AI may be more creative when deciding where to send its invasion forces, but the transport escorts usually don't stick around to bombard and you can repel the attack with land units. It would be nice to knock the transports and their escorts out before they go home to pick up more invaders, but not a priority if you have other pressing needs when it comes to your money and production. (And now that you know where the AI likes to invade, you can have a force waiting for it on its next trip around.)